judging

[virginian]

In the history of the AACA has ever been a reversal in the judging of a vehicle or am i just wasting my time in trying to undo an injustice.

[ronbarn]

The only time a change is made after the day of the show is if a math error is discovered. This is very rare with the double checks in judging admin. To my knowledge, we have never rejudged a vehicle after the day of the show or made a change solely on the basis of claims made by the owner.

[Rick Lay]

Well.....I guess I'll be the one to ask - what was the injustice?

[novaman]

Please tell what the injustice was. There are good number of us on here that are judges. You may not be able to reverse the injustice but, you may be able to prevent it from happening again if we know about it. <BR>As judges we pay for the judges breakfast before the show, volunteer our time to do the judging, pay our own travel expenses and what do we get from all this. A little chip to go on a plaque that hangs on our wall. We are human and do make mistakes. I think i can speak for most judges, that we would like to know when we do make mistakes so we don't make them again. So you aren't "wasting" your time if we learn from this and can prevent it from happening again.<P>Hershey I feel is one of the hardest placest to judge. Yes, someone is going to say that Hershey has the better cars attend the show. I've got to say only sometimes but that's another story. What makes it so hard is the fact there are sooooo many people there it is hard to move around the cars. While judging I've heard people say "they're judging the car", yet stand in the way. you ask them to move and they'll backup one step. I judge chassis a lot, I've got to be very careful not to have someone trip over me or step on my hand, if I had put it on the ground. The people who aren't watching where they are going and bump me act like I committed a crime by being in their way.<BR>Sorry about rambling on. Why don't you join us for judging school sometime? You don't have to become a judge just because you went to a judging school. <BR>Please again, let us know what the problem was. I'd like to know what I did wrong, if it was something I did.

[Guest]

Since the topic of judging has come up, I've got a question. On the judging team, whose job is it to see that all vehicles in a particular class are judged?

[Guest]

It is the Team Captain's job! The Deputy should keep an eye on that too, but it is not specifically his job. ~ hvs

[ronbarn]

A little amplification on Howard's post. The Team Captain is supposed to take an inventory of the assigned class(s) before judging starts to determine if there are no-shows. The Captain will then verify throughout the judging progress that all cars in the assigned class(s) are judged and assure that the Judged sticker is placed on the windshield card. There is the potential problem that a car is in the wrong location on the field or placed in the wrong class. Then it becomes a problem of more than one Team Captain and the Chief Judge getting things straight. Without a more specific reason for your question, that is the best answer I can give.

[Guest]

hvs, thanks very much. The system has always worked very well and I had no reason to ask. However,this year at Hershey my vehicle was skipped when the judging team went through my class. We found the slip-up in time and a pair of judges appeared out of nowhere to take care of things. All ended well. We wondered if the loss of a well-known moustache may have played a role in this.

[ronbarn]

Not unless it was in class 5d or 5e. I had my Deputy double check cause I just wasn't myself that day!!

[Guest]

Ooops. It was class 5-D.

[ronbarn]

Double ooops!! We had excess judges assigned (very rare for Hershey) and the Deputy took two to do the Preservation and I took the rest for the Juniors and Seniors. I was sure that we turned in sheets for all of the bikes on the field. I hope it was just a matter of the judge with the stickers forgetting to put the judged sticker on the card. If not, I humbly apologize - as I said I was a little distracted.

[Guest]

No apologies necessary. I appreciate the great job done by AACA judges.

[virginian]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rick Lay:<BR><B>Well.....I guess I'll be the one to ask - what was the injustice? </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>since you ask..... my vehicle is as good as it was when it won its first junior, and its nomination for a national award and the other awards. if all vehicles were judged as mine was no one would win. let me repeat "NO ONE WOULD WIN AN AWARD" there are no scratches, no wax build up, no grease , no oil, nothing to detract from its condition. i got deductions for frame, engine block, head, forks, engine pulleys, tires, everything but the tank and fenders, also there is nothing on my vehicle that is not stock as it came from the manufacture. the only problem were new tires that were cracked (cracked shortly after purchasing them). when i showed the marked up judging sheet to other AACA members, thier comments were "thats not the sheet for your vehicle". .... you ask .... what was the injustice....

[Rick Lay]

I am sorry this happened. The fact that your vehicle was nominated for an AACA national award speaks for itself. My only comment - which will be of no comfort is - you had a bad day at a national meet. They are going to happen if you attend enough meets - I've seen it and had it happen to friends of mine. <P>The important thing is....there's another day and another meet. Two-wheelers are a different kind of vehicle and not all judges are that familiar with how they should look or should be finished. In many cases, the folks who know the most about Class 5 have a vehicle on the field in that class, and cannot judge it. There is usually a shortage of judges who sign up for Class 5 - and I have observed that the teams sometimes then get composed of the folks who put down as their request "wherever needed."<P>I have scooters and enjoy judging Class 5 - but, I can tell you that I have seen some judges who were not familiar with the vehicles point them off without mercy - things that would never occur to me to point off because of some familiarity with two-wheelers. This is where the team captain should step in and have a little "prayer meeting" with the heavy-handed judge or judges. Unfortunately, I have seen some team captains who failed to do this where, in my opinion, they should have - it kept some very nice vehicles from getting the award they deserved that day. In two cases I am familiar with, the vehicles came back to another meet and got their desired award.<P>This is not something that happens very often - but, when conditions are right - can happen.<P>I hope you will bring your two-wheeler back for "another day."<p>[This message has been edited by Rick Lay (edited 10-16-2000).]

[D Binger]

What Rick is talking about - - happened to me several years ago. Try showing a JAWA ao a CZ. These judges who say they know all about bikes, may know Harleys and Indians but don't have a clue about other bikes. I almost didn't take my bikes to any other meets because of it. (a good friend of all of us talked me into going back). The problem several years ago was that the judges didn't bother to ask for docomanation - even if all the books were right there with the bike. They just thought that it was wrong and took off for it. This problem had been better in recent years. In other words - - don't give up.<P>Dan

[jac]

Dan,<BR> You bring up a good point. Team captains are still reluctant to ask for documentation.<BR>Why ? I do not know. It is certainly discussed enough in judging school.<BR>At least, that is how this left handed Texan see it.<BR>later-jac

[D Binger]

JAC,<P>I could tell you about a 1930 Chevy that lost 15 points for incorrect bumpers (at three meets - - same team Capt) because the team capt never remembered bumpers like that on a 30 Chevy. The docomaintation was there but was never asked for. <P>Dan

[Guest]

I would like to know, how do you know you lost 15 points?

[D Binger]

Some judges just have to boast when they rip someone apart - - - I happened to be standing there when he started bragging. I have never shown that car at an AACA meet since, and never will.<P>Dan<p>[This message has been edited by D Binger (edited 10-19-2000).]

[novaman]

I know of one gentleman that will not show one of his car due to impoper additude on a judges part. This judge walked up to the car, announced that his did not like that kind of car and proceeded to deduct points until that car could not win an award. This car had won awards with no problems prior to this. <BR>These are the time the team captians need to step in an put a halt to these actions. <BR>I've had a team captian and deputy question me about deductions on far less than that. I've got enough respect from them, that I tell them what the points were for, the most i'll get from them is a "your sure?". I respond with a yes adn thats the end. I've judged with a number of these guys over the years that they know me pretty well, that i'll be fair in judging.