Bill Stoneberg Posted May 29, 2000 Posted May 29, 2000 Asked this question in the Buick forum, also thought I would try here for another group of opinions.....<BR>I have found a 49 Buick Super that is still in original(not restored) condition. Its actually pretty clean and the paint is still real nice. Drives seat is showing some wear but it look better than the Tortise (Taurus) i drive everyday.<BR>How do you judge originality vs restoration ?<BR>Just wondering and also wondering how much work I should or could put into this car.<BR>I know what it would take to get a senior if it was a restoration but not sure on an original.<BR>Thanks<BR>Bill
Guest Posted May 29, 2000 Posted May 29, 2000 Bill ~ Here's my two cents worth. It depends on your willingness to invest the time & money, not to mention some blood, sweat and probably a few tears in the car.<BR>Personally, if the vehicle is in as good <BR>condition as you say, I would not hesitate to enter it in any show in the HPOF class.<BR>Granted, this is a non-competitive category<BR>but the other side of the coin is how many <BR>1949 cars are there around in as fine a shape as this and still totally original? Just a thought from one who really likes HPOF
Rick Lay Posted May 29, 2000 Posted May 29, 2000 Bill, I would definitely put this car in the Historical Preservation of Original Features (HPOF) Class. The competition in Class 26-B (production vehicles 1948-49) is pretty keen and they are judged as to how they could have looked when they left the factory. I would hate to destroy a nice showable original for the sake of a competitive award. AACA does provide a nice award in the HPOF Class for first time certification, and an award is received each time the car is shown afterwards and receives its re-certification.
Guest Posted May 29, 2000 Posted May 29, 2000 Bill, The way I think, if you are prode of it, show it. In my '36, The seats were redone with mat'l from the late 40's (thats how it was when I got it) and after doing some reserch, I added an oilfilter relocation kit and mod' an airfilter (only till I can rebuild the original one), I did this because I drive it all the time, the car still shows good and most people dont even know, and I have a lot of fun with the kids, letting them sit in it and some times giving them a ride after the shows. also, if there is only 2 other ,or less I may even get a trophy or somthing, but if not, I still have fun,and maybe get someother people into the hobby
Guest Posted May 29, 2000 Posted May 29, 2000 Bill,<BR>If it was my car I would clean it up and enter it in the H.O.P.F. with A.A.C.A and let them evaulate the car on it's original condition. There are too many cars in good original condition being restored and loosing the small original details that become lost in the restoration. I for one enjoy seeing a truely original car on the show field and who cares if it show some wear and tear. We all show the same with age.<BR>Later,<BR>Bob
ronbarn Posted May 30, 2000 Posted May 30, 2000 Bill, I agree with the previous replies. Go the HPOF route. This accomplishes two things, one - the satisfaction of showing an original car and, two - it gives some folks who may be restoring a similar vehicle (hopefully one that had not survived as well) guidelines to make their car a better restoration.
Ron Green Posted May 30, 2000 Posted May 30, 2000 Bill, They are only original once! The HPOF class gets a lot of attention at the shows as I witnessed at the recent National Spring Winchester Meet. I recently talked a good friend of mine from restoring his latest one owner cars he purchased which include a 57 Ford Fairlane 2 door (9,200 miles), 54 Packard 2 door (41,000 miles), 68 Buick 2 door (22,000 miles) and a 67 Mercury Comet 2 door (11,200 miles). These cars still have their 1st 1000 mile check up stickers on the door. As I told him these are your future HPOF cars.
steve@autorest.com Posted May 31, 2000 Posted May 31, 2000 I have an HPOF certified 1930 Cadillac Town Coupe with very low mileage, outstanding original paint, upholstery, chrome, etc. I firmly believe that they should be shown within the class they would otherwise normally be in. We already have Junior, Senior, Preservation, and Exhibition within the same class, so why can't we add the HPOF cars too. I took the car one year to Hershey and it was totally lost behind the stadium. It wouldn't be that much trouble for the judges to walk around the field to certify the few cars they do at each show. This way the cars can be enjoyed in their context and be appreciated by all those that have the same interests and might not have the time to walk to some obscure area of the field to see a car that interests them. Too harsh?, sorry, just my opinion. Steve
Rick Hoover Posted May 31, 2000 Posted May 31, 2000 Interesting point Steve. <BR>I never did agree that the HPOF class was one you had to go looking for in the show. If it was my call, I'd have HPOF the focal point of each show, front row and center. It is my first and favorite class to see. <BR>As for blending them into each class, I wonder if it would somehow diminish their own identity.<P>Rick
ronbarn Posted May 31, 2000 Posted May 31, 2000 AACA has a designated team consisting of selected members for certifying HPOF. That team and only that team is authorized to make the certification decision. At the recent Winchester meet there were 64 HPOF cars. Hershey has exceeded 100. The class is growing at all meets. Trying to walk the entire field to find all entries would be an insurmountable task. It just won't work!<P>As for positioning the complete class in a central location to highlight their unique status, that is done at most meets. It's unfortunate that Hershey seems to be stuck with the area behind the stadium.<p>[This message has been edited by ronbarn (edited 05-31-2000).]
steve@autorest.com Posted June 3, 2000 Posted June 3, 2000 Ron, could you please clarify for me, were there 64 cars to be certified for HPOF at Winchester or just 64 HPOF cars? How many had to be certified? Do all HPOF cars get looked at by the team at each meet, or just those to be certified? If they had to look at all of the cars at every meet, that in itself seems insurmountable, especially at Hershey. I'm not trying to beat a dead horse, I just think that the cars should all be with their peers, and the fields are not that spread out, that a couple of teams couldn't handle it. Aside from all this, I dont think that I should, as a restorer, judge. It can get very sticky, especially when judging a competitors restoration, unless of course it is a class totally out of my field. However, I would like to know how to judge an HPOF class.<BR>Thanks, Steve
Guest Posted June 3, 2000 Posted June 3, 2000 Steve, we (Howard and myself) just threw one at you for reply. Ran into a problem with AOL. Will try to reconstruct in next couple of days. Think the HPOF subject is important will certainly answer as things develop. We are out here in Cheyenne for meet so you will hear from us soon. Ron<p>[This message has been edited by hvscotyard (edited 06-02-2000).]
ronbarn Posted June 6, 2000 Posted June 6, 2000 Steve, don't know what happened while out there with Howard, but will try to reconstruct my reply.<P>All cars in HPOF which have not been certified must be considered for certification. However, all previously certified vehicles must also be evaluated to assure that they are still HPOF. There have been numerous instances where an owner, so thrilled with HPOF certification, made attempts to improve the vehicle and in doing so made the original features no longer truley original. Sad, but it happens, thus the team must look carefully at all candidates registered in the class.<P>I do not disagree with you position on placing the cars with their "peers", but from a pragmatic point of view, it just ain't reasonable. However, I firmly support the other opinion expresses, that the HPOF should not be hidden in the outback. Get them up front and visible.<P>As for you (or other restorers in your category) judging vehicles, there are certainly classes that you should avoid for even the perception of conflict. But there are surely some where you could make a contribution with out conflict of interest.<P>As for HPOF - a Continuing Judges Education presentation is made at every meet and a variety of subjects and one of the is on judging HPOF. Takes about 45 minutes between the Judges Breakfast and actual judging. Consider attending one of these and while you are at it, talk to Gary Ensman about joining the HPOF team. That was you resolve both concerns, i.e. your interest in the HPOF, and concern about conflict of interest. Let me know if I can help make this connection for you.
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