Pineswinter thermostats

[Guest]

I have a radiator with a Pineswinter shutter unit. Took it apart (the radiator) and had it thoroughly cleaned out, and it is fine. The Pineswinter thermostat was gunked up really good with years of accumulated packing grease from water pump and the rust/crud etc that the grease attracted. After a week of patient soaking, and final gentle boiling in hot water and Dawn dishwashing detergent (will cut ANY grease/fat/oil) all of the baffles are free, move loosely/nicely, shaft is moving easily, entire unit APPEARS to be ok, but is not activating the shutters, at least not yet.<P>A) at WHAT temperature are these supposed to activate to open the shutters????<BR> is there something else that needs to be done? I could swear that a year or two ago I read a post here about soaking or boiling them in ether or something to reactivate or purge the discs. Was I sniffing ether???<BR>C) Is there someone who services/rebuilds these units? I'm told they're scarcer than virgins at singles bars.<P>Any/all help appreciated. At this point I set the nut on the rod to hold the shutters open all the time, but don't want to drive and ruin the thermostat doing this if there is a real simple fix here.<P>Thanks.

[1937hd45]

You may have used the wrong cleaner, try Pine-Sol.

[RoadsterRich]

My 1930 Chrysler 77 uses these (at least I think they are the same). Mine consists of 6 disks, unfortunatley I only have 4 of them so I can't tell you if the instructions I have will work or not. This is taken directly from my owners manual, on how to adjust the radiator shutters:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The radiator shutters used are of the automatic type, entirely regulated and controlled by a thermostat.<P>With the engine and the water in the radiator cold, the screw protruding from the center of the thermostat cover plate at the back of the top tank of the radiator under the hood should be turned "in" until all slack in the thermostat has been removed. The lock not on this screw should then be tightened.<P>With the engine hot and the water in the radiator 160º Farenheight or above, the thermostat adjusting screw should be turned "in" until the shutters are wide open. The lock nut should then be tightened.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hope that may at least provide some useful information.<P>Rich<P>PS: If you find a source for the parts, or a rebuilder please let me know!

[RoadsterRich]

As a followup, I located the other thread (never did get an answer to my question on it...) here is the link to it:<P><A HREF="http://www.aaca.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=7&t=001046" TARGET=_blank>hood louver thermostats </A><P>Rich

[Guest]

Thanks for the response Rich. First, my unit doesn't have an adjusting screw in the middle, there is a shaft that is attached to the backing plate, and it is attached to a rod that passes through the top of the radiator top tank and goes to the shutters. The thermostat arm is parrallel to the radiator, and the shaft is perpendicular.<P>ANYWAYS, last night I ran the car to 160, and then moved the adjusting nut on the perpendicular shaft until the shutters were fully opened, thinking that might be it. I JUST went out and checked the unit, and now cold, the shutters are about 1/2 way closed. NOW what to do? If I change the hot adjustment, then the shutters will fully close when cold, but the shutters will only open about 1/2, UNLESS, that is all they are supposed to at that temperature????><BR>I'm thinking about dialing the nut back until the shutters JUST close, and then trying a run up again to see if they open 1/2 way again.<P>This is in a straight eight Lycoming, 1931 Auburn. I don't know what the top temp is supposed to be. Last year at Auburn we sat idling in the "Parade" for 35 minutes, the car never went above 150, I found out why last week, there wasn't a thermostat in it. I put in a 160 unit (Napa #1 91 for those of you who document data). Is it possible that these cars go HOTTER than 160, and that the shutters will open farther, or is 1/2 open at 160 about normal?<P>Any of you Auburn owners out there care to jump in with your experiences??<P>Thanks much.

[Guest]

PS, it is NAPA #91, NOT 191 (This is what the "50's" feel like.

[Guest]

PSS, just went and looked at it again. I THINK (oxymoron, eh???) that I may have figured it out. The arm that extends from the back of the thermostat IS on a shaft that has a lock nut on it. I'll try the adjustment thing on Tuesday. Tomorrow the kids and I are going to Cape May for the DAY, (7 hours each way, and worth it>) Does anyone know where there is a Krispy Kreme store between Williamsport and Cape May, within a few minutes of the highway????<P>Thanks.

[RoadsterRich]

At the risk of reaching KK status for the thread... where's Howard when we need him?<P>And to keep on topic, I'll try and get a picture of the pieces parts for my thermostat up shortly. I don't have the radiator yet... I do things backwards. Well actually I am picking up pieces parts when and where I can. In theory the radiator is on what feels to me like a very slow boat heading for Miami.<P>Rich

[steve@autorest.com]

These units are fully open at 160 degrees. The shutters should be fully closed by the time the engine cools back down to 100 degrees. If this is not the case, the unit does not function properly. If it is the original unit, which it sounds like, it will not be working properly, they don't last that long. The material bleeds out eventually and the bellows work harden and stress crack. You did not mention what kind of car it is from, if you email me, I can help you with a replacement or rebuild your original unit.

[Guest]

Well, back from Cape May. Didn't find any KK's, stopped at the "Clown's arches" in the Poconos, and was told we couldn't buy a breakfast burrito at 5AM "because the person who knows how to make them hasn't come in yet". UNFREAKING REAL!!<P>Anyways, thanks for the latest post. I'm going to try and do the adjustment thing today and see if I can get it to work. I'm going to bookmark your email address, and then if the unit doesn't work right, I'll get with you as soon as my wallet recovers from the shock of four 4" Firestone whitewalls with tubes, flaps, and nickel stems.<P>OH, the car is a 1931 Auburn 898A with a straight eight Lycoming.

[Guest]

Buick started to use "Pines" control in 1930. Bob's Automobilia in Atascadero, California could probably steer you in the right direction. R alph Crisp BCA 2399

[RoadsterRich]

Here is a picture of the 'components' of my radiator shutter thermostat. I am under the impression that the units changed in design between 1930 and 1931, and again at another point in time. I really don't know for sure, it is based on folklore and various bits and pieces from people I have talked to. In any event, here are the pieces parts for my car:<P> <BR> <P>I only have 4 of the bellows, though 6 are shown in the picture, I need 2 more, plus having the 4 I have restored. Any information is always greatly appreciated.<P>Rich<p>[ 07-09-2002: Message edited by: Roadster Rich ]

[Guest]

Baffles and rod look like mine. I tried the unit again today. Ran it to 160, tightened the adjusting nut until the shutters were wide open. When it cooled down, they only closed about 1/3 of the way. Probably 50/50 chance the unit is disfunctional or FOE (blanking operator error).<P>Guess I'll leave it adjusted to keep the shutters open for now. Rich, check the guy a few posts back, he said he can rebuild or replace them. <P>Good luck. You can see my car at acdclub.org under pictures, auburn.

[ronbarn]

One problem with addressing these concerns is not knowing where the unregistered poster is located. If you are down south, there is most likely no problem with the shutter positions. If you are way up north it may be more critical. Why not register on the DF? It's free.

[RoadsterRich]

Ron,<P>I agree about registering. Sure wish everyone would. It is really nice knowing where folks are from. However with regards to the shutter thermostats and reparing them, speaking for myself, some of us southerners are "Anal" and want everything to work like original, or as darn close to it as we can get it. It may not be a functional necessity, but for me my compulsive obsessive analness will drive me nuts if I don't do my best. I have to try to get the silly thermostatic louvers working, even though down here in Florida they are likely darn near useless.<P>Oops, probably shouldn't have admitted any of this in public huh? Man gonna have to hide from those white jackets again.<P>Rich

[Guest]

There is a chap Jim Otto who rebuilds Pines <BR>10700 Alameda Drive Knoxville TN37932<BR>ph (865)966-9494 OR sylengr@aol.com

[Guest]

Ok, so I registered. I'm a lazy toad, hate computers except when I want to use them. We're located north of Williamsport PA, so temperature IS an issue, especially when I start really driving this old car up and down our mountains. I may just take the thermostat out of the inlet again. Always ran 140, now she's blowing steam like an old thing. Had the radiator done over, whatever. Thanks for all of the leads, I know have several choices of where to get the unit rebuilt when I have the shekels to do so.

[Guest leadfoot]

Gotta love this DF! You learn something new every day (Pineswinter Shutter). Of course, someone who wants breakfast burritos at 5 am should patiently wait for the "chef" to arrive under the arches. You don't want amateurs making those belly bombs.<p>[ 07-10-2002: Message edited by: leadfoot ]

[Guest]

what's a DF dad? My kids tell me I'm a "dumb fart", hope you didn't just call me a name (ooooo my).<P>Pineswinter is tricky. I've seen few in 25 years at Auburn, and can't count seeing more than two that actually worked. Figured I was lucky to get one. Guess I'm halfway home with the bad boy.<P>PS, how does this bloody "login" work anyways, I registered, and when I hit the "login" button I STILL come up as unregistered.<P>I remain, cyberphobically "yours".<P>At 5 Am, you get your choice of vending machines or the arches. What absoulutely KILLED me was that they DID offer me ONE breakfast burrito, but it was (honest to GOD I'm not kidding) "left over from yesterday morning's breakfast shift."<P>Crap, I was a certified chef for 12 years before I retired and got a normal job, I truly lost it at the counter, I mean laughing, asking for the manager so that I could find out what he had that was fresh within the previous three hours. He wasn't amused.<P>AVOID the arches at the US 80/PA 476 exchange, although the HoJo's across the road makes the Clown's place look good. Shoulda brought a PBJ.

[RoadsterRich]

Well after talking to several folks that restore or work on the pines thermostats it seems that the style like mine are not well known. I've talked to 2 companies that rebuild the thermostats and two that sale a modern replacement, none of them had seen one like mine. They were however all very helpful and offered to help in any way they can, with one exception, and they told me they didn't deal with Chrysler's shortly before hanging up on me. Ah well live and learn. I'm sure someone out there either has a couple of the discs or knows how to make new ones. The search continues. Given that it is hidden I could I suppose rig up a modern bimetallic construct or even a small servo system, but that wouldn't be original, so I'm still on the hunt for the information or parts I need. When anything comes up I'll be sure to post it here.<P>Rich

[cmj]

It looks like you are missing the spacers that go between the disc also. Will see if I can find a picture of the spacer that goes in there. takes a spacer for each disc.

[56Roadmaster]

I think what you are hunting around is that your bellows no longer have fluid in them, usually this fluid is either a low temperature voltile alcohol or freon. Some has leaked out ver time. You should be able to hear some fluid when shaking the bellows discs. you will notice a little dot of solder used to seal them on the face, whitish powder around it and the edges indicates volitle fluid is gone. It is the volitile fluid that boils as engine heats the bellows causing them to expand with considerable force to open the shutters.<BR> We have the same problem with a '29 Chrysler 75 in our shop at present. The trick is getting new fluid in there and sealed back up. A good fluid mechanics book will give you the pressure equations for how much fluid you need to get a certain pressure when boiled.<BR> Will let you know how we finally did it if it works.<BR> oh and the reason your adjustment is off is because you don't have enough volitle stuff, ie there is not enough liquid to expand the bellows far enough to fully open the shutters are correct adjustment thus you have have to crank down on them to get full open and consequently when the pressure drops as engine cools they won't seat back to fully closed<p>[ 07-15-2002: Message edited by: Scott W. Taylor ]