krinkov58 Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Okay rant time...the backstory is that I bought a 1952 Buick 76R in late January but it did not get up here to Maine until February because of a driver error and a whole lotta snow we got here in New England around that time. It had been advertised as having an exhaust leak and sure enough, it did. Looked like the typical problem of a warped manifold leaking, then torqued down until the leak stopped instead of having the flanges refaced. I have just moved to this town in August and my old machine shop I've used for years is 4 hours away...so I decided to "go local" and contact the machine shop in my town upon the recommendation of my neighbor. My first inquiry was February 13th, asking if they reface manifolds and the reply was that usually they can. I told him I'd bring them by the following Monday which I did. Now, truth be told, when I removed the manifolds it became clear why the exhaust was leaking...a haphazard repair had been made in the center section (of course) where it meets the heat riser. So the flange that bolts to the head was out-of-true with the outer manifold and intake flanges. I outlined the problem in person at the shop, and indicated that I had done a leak test with the intake in place and the intake manifold was good. Didn't hear anything until March 17th, when I was contacted and asked to come by and show them how the manifolds were mounted to the head. They were wondering if the head had a protuberance that the center section was mated to; I said no it's flat all the way across. I also let him know that I needed the manifolds ASAP as I had to check the timing and carb jetting on the engine as there was some soot coming from the exhaust. Next day I got an email (with the attached photo) saying "there was more damage than we thought" and his initial price quote would be exceeded. Okay. He gave me a new estimate at twice the previous one...I told him go for it, I need this ASAP. A week later, I inquire about any progress and was advised that it'd been brazed up and they had welded some meat on the center section flange and were just waiting to mill it flat...said they'd try to have it done the next day (the 27th). I contacted him again on the 31st and asked if he'd gotten it milled and he replied that no, he's had a guy out for a few days but he was back that day. Since then, nothing.So it's been close to 2 months and I still don't have 'em. Am I being kind of unreasonable and have been spoiled by a quick turnaround from my other 2 machine shops? I mean I wouldn't expect it done in a week but damn; 2 months? How much longer should I give this guy before paying him for what he's done so far and bringing the manifolds to a quicker shop in the city? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1939_Buick Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 I think new centre exhaust housing are available from Bob's and other suppliers. At times it not worth putting money into these to repair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krinkov58 Posted April 5, 2015 Author Share Posted April 5, 2015 Totally agree and I do not plan on keeping this center section longer than I have too...problem is, the repro ones for the 320 only work with single-carb intake manifolds up to 1951. 1952 was a one-year-only deal with a 4 barrel carb and a larger plenum. Sad part is that I had 2 of these hoarded at one time. I have my eye out for another center section but honestly it could be a year or two before I scrounge one up. And I would absolutely hate to spend further money a 2 barrel setup...last one I saw for the 320 on eBay was like $600 rusted up with no carb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friartuck Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 (edited) There is a special welding rod from Muggyweld (http://www.muggyweld.com) that can handle cast iron repair. Note/review the instructions and videos carefully, the back stitch method is not common. Understand the difference between clean and dirty cast iron and use the right rod. A professional welder maybe more in order than the machine shop. Just my $0.02 worth. Edited April 6, 2015 by Friartuck (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krinkov58 Posted April 6, 2015 Author Share Posted April 6, 2015 Friartuck, I hear what you're saying but the "repair" part only came into focus a month+ after I dropped off the manifold. Originally the plan was just adding some weld to the mating flange of the heat riser (the flange that attaches to the head) and then milling it down to match the rest of the flanges then a reface of the whole getup as one unit. But yeah a professional welder probably could have added the material to the flange faster. Still would have needed a mill and reface at a machine shop though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahartley Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Pity you are between a rock and hard place........ Too bad you aren't near us as we'd gas weld that back together with 100% cast iron rod in a jiffy.I don't own the shop any more but after 3 generations of ownership I still say "we"........because I sold it to a friend/employee who worked for us for 27 years....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dep5 Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 IMHO brazing this manifold is a waste of time, energy and resources. I had a similar experience and within a year the repair cracked, just laying on the shelf . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krinkov58 Posted April 7, 2015 Author Share Posted April 7, 2015 I totally agree...but when I dropped it off at the shop, all it was for was a reface. The center section had been repaired before and in doing so, some material had probably been ground off to make the surfaces to be repaired easier to mate. Unfortunately that meant the center section flange that mates to the head got kinda "sucked in" when bolted to the intake. So new material was to be added to the flange and then milled flat to match the rest of the intake/exhaust flanges. This setup only has to last until I can find another one. If this was to be a Kustom I'd just buy a set of flanges from Hell's Gate and have headers made with a 4x1 independent runner intake setup with sidedraft Carter YH's. But I want to keep this original as possible. My question still stands...am I being unreasonable with the time frame? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stude17 Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 To answer your question for this particular job two months does seem excessive. If a replacement centre section can't be sourced I would be tempted to repair what you have. In my view welding the broken pieces back on would not be satisfactory and I would have a new section machined cut off the broken end and weld the new piece in place. It would take some aligning but if done properly should last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_in_nh Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 There is a saying in machine shops:Good, fast, or cheap. Pick two.Good luck,Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krinkov58 Posted April 8, 2015 Author Share Posted April 8, 2015 No way a center section could be sourced any time soon, although I am usually pretty good at scavedging parts and will get one eventually--but not by this summer. This is the rarest stock factory straight 8 exhaust ever. One year, that is it. tom_in_nh, so far two of those options are out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GK1918 Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 This brings back memory's back in the bus company. These were always cracking, we use to completely mill off (where yours is broken) and machine a steel sleeve.No gaskets were used just a graffite paste. After all the complaints, in 1951 they smartened up, with new webbed castings & they didn't crack. Problem using these in acar is, the exhaust pipe is 3 inches with a 3 bolt flange. Hot enough back there in a rear engine coach, manifolds would be cherry red after a run. They all had a tin square catch pan under the carb with a pipe going down to drain gas if need be. sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machinist_Bill Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Most machine shops have certain customers that they have to take care of in front of off the street work. Sometimes YOUR work will be put off for months! Try to find a retired Machinist who has his hobby shop in the garage. Word of mouth works best. Talk to some car clubs in your area. From the photo it looks like a sleeve would be best. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krinkov58 Posted April 16, 2015 Author Share Posted April 16, 2015 Just got it back from the machine shop yesterday; they were just finishing it up when I stopped by. They had the center section bolted to the intake and miked it in front of me....004" tolerance with the intake flanges. Bolted it to the head and the center section is perfect.But now the outer sections leak badly. At exhaust ports 2-3 and 6-7. They're way off. So now I'm thinking about other options. I can keep the 4-barrel intake on a shelf until I can find a decent center section and go to either:1. A 2-barrel manifold 2. A dual-carb '41/'42 manifold and all of the work involved in making that work with the motor mounts, linkage etc.3. custom headers with either the stock 4-barrel manifold with a water box, or a custom manifold with either 2 Weber DCOE's or 4 Carter YH's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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