It must be hard to be a classic car dealer---

[wayne sheldon]

This thread has so many well made good points in it by most of the previous posters. There are many things I would like to elaborate upon. But there is one point I have not seen that I think is also important, so I will stick my neck out for that.

In my nearly 50 years in this hobby, I too have seen changing trends and have been on various sides of buyer, seller, and working in the capacity of a dealer.

I wish to tread lightly here (we'll see how that works out). What I think needs to be said does NOT apply to all dealers, or appraisers. One of my longest time best friends has worked for many years as an appraiser, and for a time years ago as a dealer (marketer?), and I worked for him part time. He is a wonderful hobbyist, person, and ambassador for antique automobiles. I always value his opinion very highly. I have also known a couple other dealers, working out of nice (decent?) showrooms for many years. These particular people were also good dealers. I even bought a car from one of them once. When I had to sell that car quickly a few years later to buy a home? I sold it to another good friend that did a little collector car dealing on the side. I do hope he made a good quick profit on it.

There are some very good dealers, and good appraisers, out there.

Unfortunately, there are too many of the other kind also. I have read way too many listings, mostly through eBay, but other websites as well, where dealers seem to be intent upon showing not only how little they know, but how dishonest they are. How often must they make glowing statements about how perfect or original or "the best you will ever see" a car is when a simple glance at a couple bad photos shows the car to be a totally incorrect assemblage of stuff? How often do they need to show photos of early touring cars with the top raised so incorrectly as to show that they do NOT know how to put up a two-man top? These are simple things that anyone with even a little experience with these cars should be able do right.

Unfortunately, newcomers to the hobby do not always know these things, and may not be able to spot the accompanying BS. Newcomers likely will not know the difference between a real 1912 Ford T and a fake one with some reproduction parts put onto a 1920s chassis. These newcomers can be hurt. And the hobby is hurt by these dealers.

What about the big (at least on eBay) dealer (I won't mention their name) that several years ago tried to sell a horse buggy body put onto a made up (probably in the '50s or '60s) chassis complete with an appeared to be '50s Briggs and Stratton engine (speaking of BS) claimed to be an original, real, and/or correct 1899 automobile? Their price started out well over $100,000. This for something that at best was a replication horseless carriage worth about $10,0000. The first time I saw this thing listed? It was one of the rare times (probably only six or seven times in fifteen years) that I sent a comment to the seller with a bad listing. I was polite, tried to be nice, and simply point out their error. The reply I got was not nearly so nice. Several of those similar comments I sent to other dealers also got some really nasty replies to me. This one, they continued to list this thing for several years, while slowly reducing the price (eventually down to $30K). I did read their descriptions a few more times, purely out of curiosity. While they softened their rhetoric on how incredibly special and desirable it was? If they ever said it was not an actual 1899, I never saw it. I don't know if they ever sold it. I do know that I was not the only HCCA member to tell them the things I told them.

I have had too many similar experiences with appraisers. The phrase I have heard WAY TOO MANY TIMES is "Show me another one like it for that amount of money?" I have seen cars worth maybe $10K appraised into six figures. I have told about the badly painted purple mid-'20s Dodge sedan with poor interior and barely ran appraised for $48,000. Based upon what several appraisers have told me, our own AlCapone who recently acquired the one only remaining in the world Cardway (1923) should have paid millions for the car. I don't know what he paid, but while following the odyssey of its sale, I did read an asking figure that was not ridiculous. (I think it is wonderful that he got it! A car that special deserves a good caretaker.)

I think most of us here do understand that a car (almost anything for that matter) is worth an amount of money that a person can reasonably expect other people to be willing to pay for it. It is not worth what one fool with more money than brain might be willing to give in a weak moment. And no other car should be evaluated based upon that one fool.

Sometimes. Actually, quite often. We need to pay a bit much to get the car we want. For whatever our personal reason, if we need to pay twenty or thirty percent over what we think a car should be "worth". That is what it is worth to us and that is a good thing. Enjoying the hobby to the best of our ability is what is most valuable.

Sellers and buyers both need to understand that antique automobile values are a range of values. They range from a high of "I don't need to sell it" to a low of "I gotta have cash this week!" Somewhere between those are the reasonable range for routine sales.

Unfortunately, both appraisers and dealers that throw insane prices and values out there do hurt the hobby by fooling newcomers, many of whom cannot afford to lose ten or twenty thousand dollars. And I have seen it after it happened a few more times than I ever wanted to.

Dealers of collector cars need to be knowledgeable. And if they do not know a certain type of car? They need to know someone they can call and trust! They should NOT be be boasting about cars in ways that border on fraud. Yet several dealers seem intent on displaying their ignorance on a regular basis.

Matt Harwood, I looked at your website after having read your comments. If you were about 1800 miles closer to me? I would like to stop by and introduce myself. But the likelihood of me getting close by your place is rather small anymore.

Drive carefully, and do enjoy the hobby! W2