Guest 53 Roady Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 (edited) That plug with the collapsed electrode may be the culprit. Unless you dropped it after removal. Gas would go through that cylinder unburned. I would try a test before introducing more variables. Hold up on the points,Pat Edited April 4, 2015 by 53 Roady (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buicknutty Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 I agree that plug will be giving you troubles. The very same thing happened to me some years ago. My '56 was running terrible, and was absolutely sure that plugs were perfect, as they were new. Turned out that somehow I bumped an electrode, shorting out, just like yours. To make it worse, it wasn't me that found it, but a mechanic friend had come over that day to see how it was going, and I told him my sad story, and he more or less insisted we double check the plugs, so I felt a bit dumb, to say the least. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 The points pictured are the wrong ones for a stock early nailhead distributor. Buick started using that type in 1957 . The plug was either dropped or the piston hit it (not likely).NAPA auto parts no. ECH CS777A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Yes, plug on the far right is your boy. No spark. No fire. Putt putt. The points you have as Old-tank stated, will not work. Sad because these are so easy to adjust while the car is running and using a dwell meter. Love them on my 73 Estate Wagon.Anyway, back to the plug. Probably gap closed from hitting the head when installing. I once has a plug were the electrode was broken. When threaded into the head it would close the gap. Created a misfire. When I took it out of the head and looked at(held in the same potion as you have pictured) the electrode slipped back into position. You can see how I started scratching my head as the plug looked fine....until I flipped it over to see the darn electrode slip out and close the gap. With luck this plug with zero gap is your ills. New plug will cure it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 One other concern, your first picture 3rd plug in...appears to not be firing. All other plugs have soot. This suspect looks clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhambulldog Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 One other concern, your first picture 3rd plug in...appears to not be firing. All other plugs have soot. This suspect looks clean.yepwhite ain't right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob H Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Getting here kind of late. Have you checked for a plugged exhaust system? Either remove components or a vacuum check. Bob H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasJohn55 Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Vacuum check the exhaust? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 I don't like stretching way back there to set old style points; easier on the bench.Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Speaking of Bernies post, do you have a feeler gauge for setting the points? I believe you need .017 to get the gap close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob H Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 The engine, running at idle. Attach the gauge to a port on the intake manifold, start the engine and read the vacuum at once with the engine at an idle. It should hold steady at the original or base value. If the vacuum falls off to a steady low setting (engine idling) suspect the exhaust system.The vacuum gauge was used for diagnosing mechanical and tune-up faults. I type poorly so it is hard for me to send a complete vacuum gauge test procedure, nor do I have a way to scan printed material and email it. Some MOTORS manuals describe the technique. Perhaps you have one or someone you know does and could get a copy to you. Again, the tool can pinpoint different problems easily and inexpensively. Bob H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhambulldog Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 I have better luck with the round feeler gauges, rather than the flat ones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasJohn55 Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 The engine, running at idle. Attach the gauge to a port on the intake manifold, start the engine and read the vacuum at once with the engine at an idle. It should hold steady at the original or base value. If the vacuum falls off to a steady low setting (engine idling) suspect the exhaust system.The vacuum gauge was used for diagnosing mechanical and tune-up faults. I type poorly so it is hard for me to send a complete vacuum gauge test procedure, nor do I have a way to scan printed material and email it. Some MOTORS manuals describe the technique. Perhaps you have one or someone you know does and could get a copy to you. Again, the tool can pinpoint different problems easily and inexpensively. Bob HNow I get it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Very good write up on vacuum and vacuum gauge reading:http://www.motor.com/article.asp?article_ID=457 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillBilly53 Posted April 6, 2015 Author Share Posted April 6, 2015 Speaking of Bernies post, do you have a feeler gauge for setting the points? I believe you need .017 to get the gap close.Now I do! I just got a set last night at Autozone. The correct points didn't come in until 5 yesterday so I got a late start. I dropped the points in and I did the whole procedure of turning the engine manually so the lobe of the cam on the distributor is hitting the breaker arm and at maximum opening. Set the gap using my new gapper tool. I know this is old news to most of you guys, but I found it quite fun! (I have never done this as I've always had the pertronix in it) I put the distributor cap back on and routed the plug wires correctly. I have tripled checked them and will check them again today. It was late last night so I did not try and start her. I wanted to end on a good note of having set the points gap and routed the plug wires, etc. That way I felt good about something and in the chance that I tried to start her and something wasn't correct that I would be out in the garage until 4 in the morning and probably pissed off. So when I get my work done today, I will have a fresh clean mind to try and start her. I will report back.I appreciate the help and response. I need to answer some questions from ya'll:I think James had asked if I had a timing light. I don't!Bob, thank you - I have done the vacuum test just as you have pointed out. The gauge was consistently reading in the the "lated timing" red zone. I will do it again today so that everyone has the latest update info on what's going.I think someone had asked if I used a screw-in type compression gauge. Yes, I used the threaded type and I did tests both wet and dry to no change in compression.I realize this is an extremely long thread and with all my heart I appreciate everyone taking time to help. Now that everything is back to factory, I will try her today and get some new readings and report back. Hopefully with good news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Will, in your picture of the plugs. There is one plug that is clean (no soot) keep an eye on this cylinder the plug was removed from. It does not appear to be firing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Will, in your picture of the plugs. There is one plug that is clean (no soot. Third from left) keep an eye on this cylinder the plug was removed from. It does not appear to be firing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillBilly53 Posted April 7, 2015 Author Share Posted April 7, 2015 Hey Hey!!! http://youtu.be/YPLWgLFd-xY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Sounds pretty good to me from my house. How does it feel? Does the choke open all the way once it warms up for like 8 to 10 minutes? Do you have an infrared thermometer to shoot a temp reading on the choke stove pipe just next to the choke thermostat housing on the carb? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Sounds like progress!!!! Great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 53 Roady Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Congratulations!Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buicknutty Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Much better, great progress. As per John's question, how does it drive?Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillBilly53 Posted April 7, 2015 Author Share Posted April 7, 2015 Sounds pretty good to me from my house. How does it feel? Does the choke open all the way once it warms up for like 8 to 10 minutes? Do you have an infrared thermometer to shoot a temp reading on the choke stove pipe just next to the choke thermostat housing on the carb?I don't, but it looks like I've got an excuse to purchase another tool tomorrow Thanks guys, it's raining here today and she's a fair weather car at the moment (no wipers, broken driver's side window, etc.) so I was unable to see how she drives. If the rain moves out I will see how she feels tomorrow.It was sweet music to my ears and she started right up with no problem. I had a the biggest grin on my face when I went in to tell my wife. I don't know if it was the pertronix, fouled plugs, crappy wires or what, but she sounds pretty awesome to me so far. Can't wait until tomorrow. It's like Christmas Eve tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhambulldog Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Hooray !!! Sounds GREAT!!!!Congratulations ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Hey Hey!!! http://youtu.be/YPLWgLFd-xYReplayed this on my desktop. It is the SWEET sound of success! Time to fine tune and take it out for a cruise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Great work! Thanks for sticking with it and helping to educate all of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillBilly53 Posted April 7, 2015 Author Share Posted April 7, 2015 Thank you everyone! I hooked up the vacuum gauge and let her warm up. She worked her way and steady into the middle of the green "normal working motor" area of the gauge. I just took her for a drive and she did great! Huge difference in power and acceleration. I kept checking the instrument panel and all was okay. She kept her idle at stop signs. I drove her into an abandoned neighborhood and gave her some good revs. Probably put about 5 miles on her (odometer doesn't work). I'm sure I looked like an escaped patient from the looney bin with the ridiculous smile on my face! She did awesome until I was almost home and slowing down I heard a wobble in one of the wheels. I'll start a new thread for that though. Thank you so much to everyone with all of your help. It was a quite a momentous day for me! I'll get back an do some more fine tuning, but wow what a difference! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g-g-g0 Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Sounds great!!! Makes me want to get the convert put and go for a drive. That will have to wait for a few days as the rain has set in and need to be a bit warmer!! Happy your problem is solved!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Glad that is sorted. On to operation wheel wobble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buicknutty Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Nice that she's running like a Buick should! Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony M Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Woo-hoo. I've been following this for a while and couldn't wait to here the results. Sounds beautiful. This forum is GREAT . Lots of good help ready to assist. I was thinking about installing the electronic ignition in the ol 55 Super to be more trouble free, but I think this might not be a good idea after all. GREAT JOB GUYS!!!! Tony M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillBilly53 Posted April 7, 2015 Author Share Posted April 7, 2015 When I get the wobble wheel addressed, I'm gonna have my wife take some video of me flying by! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95Cardinal Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Glad to hear it running well again; CONGRATS on your achievement, Will! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Woo-hoo. I've been following this for a while and couldn't wait to here the results. Sounds beautiful. This forum is GREAT . Lots of good help ready to assist. I was thinking about installing the electronic ignition in the ol 55 Super to be more trouble free, but I think this might not be a good idea after all. GREAT JOB GUYS!!!! Tony M.I recommend saving your money, Tony. The point system has worked well for decades. It is my opinion both systems can fail at any time. It is a crap shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillBilly53 Posted April 8, 2015 Author Share Posted April 8, 2015 Thanks 95Cardinal! I'm now in the no-Pertronix club officially with Willie and Chris and others. I agree, I took the pertronix out and took my time to set the points. It was not nearly as hard as I made it up to be in my head. And I honestly can't tell a difference in her starting up either way - however, I did drive her around town for the first time ever with points and condenser and NOT with the Pertronix :cool: Just sayin... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEarl Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Lamar and I got her running back in 2012 for the first time. I think you may have found the cause of the problem. Wedding/honeymoon/holidays - I had to let her sit over the winter and decided to concentrate on the modified brake system (that's a whole other story) finally got that done and wanted to start her up to go for a test drive around the block.I want to hear that "whole other story" about the brakes Will. Maybe over a few beers one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEarl Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Thanks 95Cardinal! I'm now in the no-Pertronix club officially with Willie and Chris and others. I agree, I took the pertronix out and took my time to set the points. It was not nearly as hard as I made it up to be in my head. And I honestly can't tell a difference in her starting up either way - however, I did drive her around town for the first time ever with points and condenser and NOT with the Pertronix :cool: Just sayin...I distinctly remember telling you to get rid of that thing as I was licking the tips of my blistered fingers after touching that chrome coil and hearing a sizzle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillBilly53 Posted April 10, 2015 Author Share Posted April 10, 2015 I distinctly remember telling you to get rid of that thing as I was licking the tips of my blistered fingers after touching that chrome coil and hearing a sizzle.I promise, it was intimidation and not that I didn't trust your's and Willie's suggestion to throw that thing in the trash! We need to hang together soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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