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jim ratsoy's collection going to china !!!


pontiac1953
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Hi John, Victoria is definitely a nice place. And has a better climate than the Vancouver area. Housing costs are a little lower, but not that much. Access to the mainland is by ferry , hours of service and cost... well not so good. Last sailing is 9:00 PM. I am about 40 minutes east of Vancouver city proper in the Fraser Valley, all one stretch of suburbs really. Average house price in Vancouver is over a Million, by the time you get out to my area more like $600 -$700 thousand, but anything nice in my area is nudging that million mark. Where does all the money come from ? Most of us will only earn 1 to 2 million before tax and all other expenses in our lifetime, how can a city be filled with $600 thou to 4 Million houses ?

Greg in Canada

True words. Even if you drive about 45 min out of vancouver to the suburbs a entry level house on a smallish lot starts at 550,000 and you can expect to do some mild reno's on top of that. When your farm land that is locked in the agriculture reserve runs about 200,000 per acre it runs up the price of everything else.

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When China buys real estate in western Canada it is to gain the right of way for a pipeline to drain the Great Lakes and export fresh water, more than they do now. There are five of them and the water runs down hill to Ontario.

Amateur geologists can look at the Keystone pipeline and see how the infrastructure will share the route to seaports for both oil and water. B.C. is an export terminal.

A few old cars will be insignificant when the story is done.

Bernie

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When China buys real estate in western Canada it is to gain the right of way for a pipeline to drain the Great Lakes and export fresh water, more than they do now. There are five of them and the water runs down hill to Ontario.

Amateur geologists can look at the Keystone pipeline and see how the infrastructure will share the route to seaports for both oil and water. B.C. is an export terminal.

A few old cars will be insignificant when the story is done.

Bernie

So I am confused. You think the Chinese are buying land for pipeline right of way export? You do know there are mountains at play here. I know the Great lakes are large. piping water from Lake Ontario to Richmond does't pencil. I know that Alaska is exporting fresh water to China via Tankers. BC is considered to have the Best fresh water quality in Canada. I will give you another geography lesson. the Keystone pipeline was to start in Northern Alberta and go virtually straight down to Texas. Not to pump deliciously clean lake Ontario water to Richmond. The pipeline we do need is from Northern Alberta to the coast of BC is called the Kinder Morgan Pipeline. This one is needed because your President in all his royal wisdom would rather keep importing oil from the middle east than buy that Damm Canadian Dirty Oil. Hey whats a little more money to the middle east. That's a fairly stable region. Right

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Greg, what city are you near that has such an expensive

cost of living? Vancouver? I understand California isn't much better!

I visited Victoria and the area around it, and found it to be a very nice place.

Of course, I saw the area from a tourist's vantage, not a resident's.

John, here is an example of the cost of living in the Metro Vancouver area. The price of gas today is $1.24/litre or $4.69/US gallon, and $5.63/Imperial gallon. My motor home takes 208 litres of gas. A full tank would be $258.00. On flat ground (hard to come by in BC) I can get 12.5 miles /Imperial gallon at 90kph (55 mph). Guess what speed I drive at even though the freeway speed limit is 110 kph?

Terry

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When I was growing up only 2 hours from the Canada-US border

(long before 2001-era travel restrictions), we would drive into Ontario

pretty regularly. Then, gas prices in the United States and Canada

were about equal; the Canadian and American dollars were virtually

at par for many years.

I would regularly see Canadian pennies, nickels, dimes, and quarters

in change. If I opened up a roll of pennies, there would typically be

about 2 Canadian pennies included. As a child, I once spent a

Canadian $1 bill at the grocery store in Pennsylvania, and the cashier

didn't bat an eye. In fact, I had a nice childhood Canadian coin collection

going just from pocket change in Pennsylvania!

Sorry to hear that gas prices are now high, but it's at least better

than the Scandinavian countries---and the Canadian cities I've seen

are cleaner than their American counterparts.

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John, I'm 20 minutes from the border. If you find any Canadian pennies, or one or two dollar bills, hang on to them. Pennies are gone, and we now have one and two dollar coins - loonies and townies (aka doubloonies). :D

Terry

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Even though it is expensive to live in this area, I can't think of very many other places I would rather be. We have for the most part very good weather. We can ski on one of the best mountains in the world and have a great dinner ocean side on the same day.

X2. :D

Terry

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Did anyone ever see a list of what was in the collection and were they all Concours condition ? Can you publish the list ?

Maybe we are making a big fuss over a little matter ! Wayne

As far as I know, Ratsoy didn't buy vehicles which needed anything more than cosmetic work. The staff at his GM dealership did any work required. Some, but not all, would likely have been Pebble Beach quality. The rest would still have been very good.

Terry

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on other note-importing vehicles into China commands cray tariffs and import duty-so the chinese businessman must have wted this collection pretty bad.........................................

If the gentleman has enough money to buy the entire collection, then I am sure he has enough to keep the Chinese government happy. I wouldn't be surprised if it is easier to bring in a collection than it is a single vehicle.

Terry

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If they are an investment,to be sold later,,Might they open

a collection/museum here,,and not take a chance on freight,,

I know of a few cars that will never see the light of day again,,

One is a really rare Stanley tiller steer

Whole container ship went down

no cheers this time,,,Ben

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  • 4 years later...

I live in Victoria. Its a great city but to me its in a decline. Twenty years ago traffic was moderate and today it is horrible. Developers are raping as much land as they can and at the moment there are 11,400 houses and condo units being built. Figure one car per unit and see how bad traffic will be.

The mayor of Victoria is on a bike lane binge and is cutting out entire lanes of roadway to install the paths. My neighbourhood had a 3 lane road going downtown and now its a one lane road. Not uncommon to see 25 or 30 cars in a single lane at a traffic light.

There is not much in the way of car shows here. I think I went to 5 last year out of perhaps 7. As we are on an island we need the ferry to go anywhere. The fare is about $120 return for a car and 2 passengers. Trips to the swap meet at Monroe require an overnight stay.

But honestly I would rather be here than any other place.

As to shipping items to the Orient I can't say what it costs. After my wife passed away 2 years ago I had to sell her 1936 Steinway Grand piano. I don't play and to have it sit idle was wrong. It went to China. Picked up at my home, crated in the driveway and I presume put in a container. The buyers have sent me a photo of it in their house in Zanghou.

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On 3/10/2015 at 7:29 AM, John_S_in_Penna said:

Good question, Bill.

I like to see collections like this, if they're not going to be

kept together, sold to hobbyists. I know of a situation

currently in an AACA region where a widow is thinking of

selling her husband's collection to a classic-car dealer--who

may have more affection for money than for the cars, and

who will likely put absurdly high asking prices on the cars

in the attempt to get the bottom dollar. The dealer may be

honest, but getting reasonably priced cars into the garages

of people who will enjoy them and show them doesn't need

a middleman!

Honestly John, I can understand why she wouldn’t want to do sell them individually. I would have sold to a dealer if I could have. I’ve spent more time and invested years of my life selling cars I didn’t know anything about. It wasn’t an easy journey and it’s very hard sentimentally to go through the process of selling the belongings of a loved one who no longer can enjoy them. 

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Bill,

 

Welcome to the forum. It looks like you may have just discovered the group. Obviously you dug pretty deep into the archives to find this thread. The forum affords those of us in the Pacific NW our only opportunity to interact with the largest comprehensive old car organization in the world. Sadly this is destined to be as close as some of us will ever get to club function. In the absence of any regional AACA presence, there is a rather strong HCCA, and CCCA, plus the Golden era Automobile Association (pre-war) clubs south of the border. The void that that exists for all of us in the PNW, is the lack of a comprehensive post-war organization. I do believe that without a unifying post-war organization, some of the impetus for the preservation of stock and original cars, produced over the last seventy years, is limited.

 

I'm very familiar with Vancouver Island, and I have numerous friends who live there. I know the island's positive features, as well as the limits because of the isolation. But being able to live there sure beats many of the living options, that most Canadians have.  Empathy is the only thing I have to offer, good luck.

 

Bill

 

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I visited Shanghai China a few months ago and went to their Shanghai automotive museum . It’s a beautiful place , filled with North American cars and trucks with correct thanks to us for pioneering the automotive industry. Not political. They also have loads of open space! If this is where those cars are going, more power to them! BTW, living in Shanghai is, in my opinion, very oppressive with rules and cameras and restrictions, but if western cars and tv get more exposure, isn’t that ok?

thanks, Ron Hausmann P.E.

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I don't believe Chinese citizens can import cars unless they're less than 5 years old or older than 100, and the tariffs are massive. They don't want to risk damaging their home auto industry with cheap (and higher quality) used cars from overseas. They may be able to get exemptions for museums, but the fears of a massive collector car drain going to China are unfounded. The very rich guys can probably bribe their way into it, but it's pretty unlikely that a big collector car hobby will spring up overnight in a country where bicycles are still a primary form of transportation for a majority of the population. 

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15 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

I don't believe Chinese citizens can import cars unless they're less than 5 years old or older than 100, and the tariffs are massive. They don't want to risk damaging their home auto industry with cheap (and higher quality) used cars from overseas. They may be able to get exemptions for museums, but the fears of a massive collector car drain going to China are unfounded. The very rich guys can probably bribe their way into it, but it's pretty unlikely that a big collector car hobby will spring up overnight in a country where bicycles are still a primary form of transportation for a majority of the population. 

 

Seems like I remember our guide telling us of a waiting list to get a drivers license. Might have been registration, but sounded like only the wealthy could drive cars.

I guess there are many wealthy people there cuz the roads are crowded, however there are MANY MANY people. Loads of bicycles, scooters and pedestrians.

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On ‎3‎/‎12‎/‎2015 at 5:47 PM, dictator27 said:

John, here is an example of the cost of living in the Metro Vancouver area. The price of gas today is $1.24/litre or $4.69/US gallon, and $5.63/Imperial gallon. My motor home takes 208 litres of gas. A full tank would be $258.00. On flat ground (hard to come by in BC) I can get 12.5 miles /Imperial gallon at 90kph (55 mph). Guess what speed I drive at even though the freeway speed limit is 110 kph?

Terry

How would you like to update your fuel prices?? :wacko:

 

Craig

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On ‎3‎/‎12‎/‎2015 at 5:47 PM, dictator27 said:

John, here is an example of the cost of living in the Metro Vancouver area. The price of gas today is $1.24/litre or $4.69/US gallon, and $5.63/Imperial gallon. My motor home takes 208 litres of gas. A full tank would be $258.00. On flat ground (hard to come by in BC) I can get 12.5 miles /Imperial gallon at 90kph (55 mph). Guess what speed I drive at even though the freeway speed limit is 110 kph?

Terry

How would you like to update your fuel prices?? :wacko:

 

Craig

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I know a "little" about museums in China since I went on a state sponsored trip to give a speech at the Beijing museum and can tell you that they operate totally different than museums in this country.  They are controlled by the "state" and have a large bureaucratic hierarchy.  There are at least 3 museums in China now.  One was assisted by Don Williams of Blackhawk fame, I believe. I suspect strongly that Matt is right and that they import collector cars under a special arrangement.

 

The staffs are mostly young people trained in museum science but just learning the car game.  We have had a contingent from China here for the last couple years at the AACA fall national in Hershey.  We just traded a book with the newest of the museums, the Sanhe.  Very interesting experience waiting China but I will pass on the bowl of bacteria if offered again!

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I responded to this thread when it first appeared years ago. As a concept I have never lost sight of the advantages of having a world wide network of American cars, or any car for that matter. As we older folks leave the car world and as homegrown demand lags behind the supply of available cars, enthusiasm has to come from somewhere. Why not from overseas, if enthusiasts are more willing to pay the price and expand the vistas of others in their community.

 

Here is the problem that I had with the Ratsoy collection. I was very familiar with the collection, and had visited it on numerous occasions. As Bill in Victoria indicated, BC is undeserved for old car events, and there simply isn't much that could compare with the Ratsoy collection. Of course Jim had the right to do what he wanted to with his collection, but to me there was a lack of transparency that could have kept the cars in the community. The fact is that nobody that I know even knew anything about the collection being for sale. We simply will never know if there might have been a local or regional buyer, and I think that is a shame.

 

Overseas enthusiasts know the value of what they are getting. Cars are often treated as the historical icons that they are, and they are willing to pay the price for the best cars available. It only makes good sense since they can't afford to involve themselves in a restoration project. The reality is that once sold to an overseas buyer, most of these cars will never again be offered to an American buyer.

Edited by Buffalowed Bill (see edit history)
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The other side of the situation is that at least some of us would definitely like to make up for the lagging homegrown demand. Disclaimer, I count myself as homegrown even though I am actually right next door to the U.S.A. in British Columbia Canada. Technically a foreigner however I don't really see myself as one.  Those of us in British Columbia often spend a substantial amount of our hobby $ and attend quite a few U.S. events {WA. ORE. Idaho} out of necessity as like you mention there are limited opportunity's here in Canada. Swap meets and hobby cars for sale in particular.

  The big problem as I see it is declining middle class fortunes. The Asian's and European's have us beat six ways from Sunday on disposable income. I think many more cars would remain in North America if the middle class had a little more cash in their pocket instead of lint like many of my generation have these days. Things do seem to be slowly improving in the U.S. but here in Canada I see no equivalent reason to be optimistic.

 Within the last 8 months there have been two cars I was desperately trying to put deals together on {gather enough money, 90 % there but that last 10% is a killer} , both sellers eventually lost patience with me and in both cases were sold to new owners in the U.K. One a Canadian car and one a U.S. car. I am beginning to wonder why I even try.

 

Greg in Canada

Edited by 1912Staver (see edit history)
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On ‎3‎/‎9‎/‎2015 at 2:22 AM, pontiac1953 said:

i can't believe, that in all this country, no one here in the states was able to outbid the chinese bidder for jim ratsoy's 100 classic car collection. so sad to cars like a 1958 pontiac bonneville convertible, and a 1958 buick limited convertible get taken to china. 1957 GMC sport truck, 1931 cadillac V12, one of only 76 1960 edsel convertible. the list goes on and on. the collection has been in canada.

Were the any other Pre WWII cars or just the Caddy V12? 

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  • 1 month later...

@Buffalowed BillThere was some local interest in the collection. I Met with Jim on more than once. I also know that there was a second person talking to him other than me. I was in the postion to take the entire collection as is where is. He had about 12 to 15 cars in various stages of dissassembly or reassembly. about 113 to 120 cars in total.. @pontiac1953 I find it interesting how people are very quick to question the lack of buyers. Remeber that the seller was a second or third generation car dealer. He is a very schrewd business man. If i sent you a list of all the cars on the list and placed the asking price number next to them you might have a clearer understanding. The Ratsoy collection was NOT a fire sale. Also remember that the concept of value is subjective. For instance in BC every one that is local or has lived here a long time is complaining about property cost unless they are selling. But buyers are coming from overseas that do not have a cash flow problem and see our high prices as a bargin. The same was this collection. the oportunity to lump sum a large instant collection was percieved as a value that most local people could not visualize. I could take the same asking price and put togeather a larger collection with a higher quality of car both in rarity of models and condition.

Kirk Stevenson

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1 hour ago, vintagerodshop said:

@Buffalowed BillThere was some local interest in the collection. I Met with Jim on more than once. I also know that there was a second person talking to him other than me. I was in the postion to take the entire collection as is where is. He had about 12 to 15 cars in various stages of dissassembly or reassembly. about 113 to 120 cars in total.. @pontiac1953 I find it interesting how people are very quick to question the lack of buyers. Remeber that the seller was a second or third generation car dealer. He is a very schrewd business man. If i sent you a list of all the cars on the list and placed the asking price number next to them you might have a clearer understanding. The Ratsoy collection was NOT a fire sale. Also remember that the concept of value is subjective. For instance in BC every one that is local or has lived here a long time is complaining about property cost unless they are selling. But buyers are coming from overseas that do not have a cash flow problem and see our high prices as a bargin. The same was this collection. the oportunity to lump sum a large instant collection was percieved as a value that most local people could not visualize. I could take the same asking price and put togeather a larger collection with a higher quality of car both in rarity of models and condition.

Kirk Stevenson

your opinion of this subject doesn't change mine at all, it's sad to think that nowadays the greatest american special interest car show is no longer here in the ole USA anymore, but is held overseas. i firmly believe the our great automotive history and works of automotive art belongs here, not over there.

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There is some merit to that reasoning , however unless people pay the going rate on every car, over time they will follow the money wherever that leads. America was quite happy to supply export markets since the beginning of the automobile age. Even produced special export versions of some cars.  Possibly these later day sales can be looked at as delayed exports.

  American cars have many fans , however you may have noticed American's also like vintage import cars. Should they all be sent home ? It's probably best if vintage car imports and exports remain unregulated, otherwise we may be shooting ourselves in the foot.

 

I am a fan of cars built both in North America and overseas .

 

Greg in Canada

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