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John_Mc

Finally have my oil pan off, what do these pictures show about my engine?

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Guys, now that I have my oil pan finally off, can someone posessing more knowledge than me tell me what these show? Which oil pump do I have? Looks pretty clean to me, but is it? Will that filthy pickup screen inhibit oil flow?? See any changes I should make?? Thanks!

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Edited by John_Mc (see edit history)

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Benefits of AACA Membership.

Looks pretty clean to me. I gotta ask, what inspired you to remove the oil pan in the first place?? But while your there you might as well clean the screen and I would take a look and check the size of at least one or two rod bearings and a main bearing just for shits and grins. Just sayin.

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I removed the pan for a couple of reasons. First, the oil float didn't float, secondly I wanted clean it, third i wanted to super clean the pick up tube for increased flow.

was thinking of pulling the rod caps to check for clearances and for scoring. Anyone know where I can find the specs?

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Hey John, While you have the pan off I would also check the core plugs located along the pan rail on the bottom of the block. Take a screwdriver and poke around on them to make sure they aren't rusted out. They are 3/4 or so dia and readily available at the parts house.

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There are core plugs pressed into each end of the crank rod journals would you believe, they have been known to fall out! reducing oil pressure, you could check those while you are under there. 1940 onward the crank changed. Allan Whelihan parts vender could supply you with a " High Volume " oil pump.

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I also noticed your oil pan is missing the baffle. It fits in the bottom of the pan and snaps in those horizontal ribs on the sides of the pan. The baffle has a well that the oil float sits in to keep it from getting into the crankshaft.

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Hi John,

What kind of oil pressure did you have when you last drove the car? If it was low, you might want to have the oil pump checked out. Here are the V-12 Engine specs from the Service Bulletin. Use Plastigauge to measure the clearance.

http://www.plastigaugeusa.com/how.html

Zephyr engine specs 2_NEW.pdf

Edited by 19tom40 (see edit history)

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John,

As "flatcat" mention above, the baffle or also called "tray" HAS TO BE INSTALLED !. If this is not installed , the rotating crank will destroy the float in seconds. I recently replaced

the float in my '48 LC. BTW, don't try and repair the float, it is made of sheet brass and probaley full of cracks. These are available from a vender, just check the "sources".

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the baffle is gone, to allow the later style pick up..or it is a later / postwar block..

lets see the crank journals, are they solid, or have little welch plugs on each throw??

I removed part of mine as well, and I dont remember the details, but my float is ok..

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call wheliahn..get high volume pump..dont bother with pulling bearings...if you are that worried, just pull motor..grab your wallet and be ready for

action...it ran decent...more oil pressure will help..

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the baffle is gone, to allow the later style pick up..or it is a later / postwar block..

lets see the crank journals, are they solid, or have little welch plugs on each throw??

I removed part of mine as well, and I dont remember the details, but my float is ok..

The baffle has to be shortened to make room for the later oil pickup.

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the baffle is gone, to allow the later style pick up..or it is a later / postwar block..

lets see the crank journals, are they solid, or have little welch plugs on each throw??

I removed part of mine as well, and I dont remember the details, but my float is ok..

thanks to all who have taken the time to respond. Yes, my oil float is cracks at the bottom and I was going to try to fixture but it sounds as if the smartest thing to do is just replace it. Regarding the oil pump, I spoke with Allan W. About it and he thinks it is a later pump, not an original. Think it should still be replaced? I'll have to check the journals but as I recall, they are solid, with no welch plugs. Yes this car starts and runs beautifully, but under heavy load but develops a concerning noise, similar to a rod knock. My oil pressure at the gauge shows about 40-45 cold and dops down to about 5-10 at hot idle. I was running 15/40 but was told to go to straight 40 wt which I now have. I have no smoke or blow-by.

looks like I'm in the market for a Melling 15 pump, a new float and possible baffle?

Thank you to all as I'm learning everyday more about these amazing cars.

Edited by John_Mc (see edit history)

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Happy to report that my engines am together! I got all I needed from Al W.,who was very patient with me, a newbe. I followed his instructions and now no leaks, my oil float now floats and my engine knock seems to be mug better since I cleaned out the pick up screen.

nowitson to the brakes.

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Oh, also got mt revised pan baffle from Flatcat and it worked perfectly!

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Just pulled my pan to install a new Melling M-15 and baffle from Alan Whelihan. What do you think I found installed? A Melling M-15! In the bottom of the pan I found two plugs that had RTV on them, and looking at the journals I found the holes they belong in.

 

Just as 38ShortopConv said, they are known to fall out and mine did. That certainly explains the low oil pressure. Can anyone suggest what I should use to glue them in permanently? Anyone need a Melling M-15?

 

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I doubt that there is an adhesive that will "glue" the plugs in place. They need to be expanded to hold them in place. Clean all of the RTV from the hole and get a plug that is very close to the size of the hole. Get an expansion plug installation tool (Autozone may have a loaner),Coat the hole  and plug sides with Hi-Tack to act as a lubricant and drive the plug home.

 

Google "installing a freeze plug"  for an illustration.

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Thanks for the tip, Tom. Before I saw your post I took it upon myself to put them back in with LocTite cyanoacrylate (super glue). It's supposed to be resistant to oil and seems to have done the job, but I wish I had peened over the edges of the plugs first to make a tighter fit. I'm now pondering whether I should remove all of the plugs and put them in properly so I don't experience another catastrophic drop in oil pressure. The plugs were installed convex side in, so the YouTube method of extraction wouldn't work. I would have to drill them out to get a grip on them.

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Super Glue may break down when heated. It has a service temperature limit of 180 degrees. I would remove the plugs and do it the correct way. It is no fun having to call a flatbed to take you home from a show.

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I doubt that there is an adhesive that will "glue" the plugs in place. They need to be expanded to hold them in place. Clean all of the RTV from the hole and get a plug that is very close to the size of the hole. Get an expansion plug installation tool (Autozone may have a loaner),Coat the hole  and plug sides with Hi-Tack to act as a lubricant and drive the plug home.

 

Google "installing a freeze plug"  for an illustration.

Well, you were right. Before you responded I had already super-glued the plugs in and replaced the pan. The oil pressure dropped again after a long, hot trip so will be repeating the job shortly. I looked at AutoZone's freeze plug tool but I can't see how I can use it to get the right angle to hammer them into place. There's very little room between the crank counterbalances and the plugs. Anyone have experience installing these particular plugs? The YouTube videos were no help for this particular problem.

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I have found success with some degree of difficulty, to the extent i updated my engine to later crank (rods, flywheel) to avoid this

nightmare..Obviously  crank plugs had to be removed to clean./ machine.

--obtain 4/5 boxes of the appropriate sized steel freeze plug, Dorman i believe..the variation in size demand a large pool to choose from,

take the left overs back as new, smile.  

---Tap in place once you have 12 good fits, then take a bolt with a nut and another bolt..screw them together,

slide it in the journal, then back off enough to dimple the plug...yes, not a whole lot of "throw" but can work..I did it..but not upside down under the car 

I hate to say it, but I would yank it, and get it on a stand

Many folks then jb weld over the whole thing...but only if sterile enough to get good bond.. 

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Install the plug then expand it by striking the domed end. Then with a center punch stake it in place by punching around the edge of the hole in 3 or 4 places. Forget trying to use glues and adhesives for this.

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