martin101

1929 Stutz Backhawk Boattail Speedster Engine needed

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I need help locating a complete engine for a 1929/'30 Blackhawk Boattail Speedster, Straight Eight.

If you have something please let me know.

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Benefits of AACA Membership.

I don't happen to have an engine, but I would love to see a picture of your car, if you happen to have one. Is it a '29 Torpedo Speedster, rather than a '28 Boattail? The reason I'm asking is because I've just acquired a Torpedo that needs a bit of work to look right.

Thanks!

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yes, I mean the flathead. any help is appreciated. in what other Stutz models was this engine used?

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That engine was only used for a short time in 1929/30 in the smaller Blackhawk model. Most Blackhawks had a 6 cylinder OHC engine - basically the same as the 8 cylinder Stutz minus 2 cylinders. A truly advanced engineered engine. The engine you posted was available in the Blackhawk cars only, but very few were built. It's an "off the shelf" L head Continental Eight. While a good engine, it doesn't have the overhead cam or dual ignition that the Stutz built 6 & 8 cylinder engines do, so from an engineering standpoint it's less exciting. I think there's only a couple Blackhawk cars in existence with the Continental 8. One of them is a cream colored phaeton.

Edited by K8096 (see edit history)

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Thank you for your insight K8096. Overhead cam is clearly more advanced I have to agree with you. I want to stick with the original engine though and hope to find help in this forum. Since it was an of the shelf engine what other manufacturer besides Stutz used it ? Any help is appreciated in locating a Continental 8.

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I'd post that question with your photo under the general AACA forum for better exposure. I think Jordan Speedway series Z cars used them, but there's only one of those in existence! I'm sure there's some other manufacturers that used them though. Maybe Gardner? Kissel? Moon?

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Delson Interchangable Parts Manual under connecting rods and bearings shows:

Blackhawk, L8, 8 cyl., 1929

Davis, 98, 8 cyl., 1927-1928

Jordan, J, 8 cyl., 1925-1926

Jordan, JE, Airline, 8 cyl., 1928-29

Locomobile, 8-70, 8 cyl., 1928-1929

Moon, 8-80, 8 cyl., 1928

Windsor, Eight, 8 cyl., 1929

under cylinder heads the above with these changes:

the single Jordan entry is: Jordan Light, 8-70, 80-90, 1926-31

No Locomobile entry

Add Peerless Standard 8, 1931

the Windsor entry is "White Prince" 85-92, (Special)

add World D8, 1 1/2-2 1/2 Ton (( no doubt a truck))

under pistons and pins:

Black Hawk L8 1928-30 (( note different spelling of name))

Continental Motor 14S, 15S, 12E, 16S, 1928-30

Moon Aero Type 8-80, 1928

Windsor 8-82, 85, 92, 1929-31

(( )) my notations

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All - Kissel has no interchangeability with this engine type. Kissel used modified LYCOMING engines for their eight-cylinder models and actually cast their own Model 38, 45, and 55 six-cylinder engines. They never used CONTINENTAL.

RON HAUSMANN P.E.

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Black Hawk is a body type used for some single overhead cam straight 8 Stutz, particularly on the short wheelbase chassis. Blackhawk L6 and L8 was a slightly smaller and more economical make, intended by Stutz to increase its market share. The OHC L6 was not much lighter than the OHC 8, and probably little cheaper to manufacture. The Continental side valve 8 was a slightly lighter and more powerful engine than the OHC L6; and people here who are or were familiar with both are or were convinced the cars are or were slightly better performers. The Rickardo combustion chamber of the side valve is a better design than the "tuna-tin" combustion chamber of the OHC 8 and the similar 6, despite the twin ignition on those. Probably the more sophisticated side valve would have used less fuel. Anyone who wants to understand internal combustion engines more thoroughly would enjoy Sir Harry Rickardo's book "The High Speed Internal Combustion Engine". That was the primary text book on heat engines for several generations of mechanical engineers.

The great shame for Stutz, in retrospect, is that the Twin OHC derivative of the L6 never saw production. With shorter stroke, connecting rods, and cylinder bores, and with thin-section casting technology, the DV24 could have developed into a much lighter engine producing much more power to become as modern as today.

As for the shorter , X-braced chassis frame of the L6 and L8, that was used with the OHC eight to build the racing specials for Le Mans. Significant numbers of the survivors have been used to create clones of those, both before and after the dispersal of L series cars which Alex Miller preserved. One of those that I know of, which is built and owned by John Kennedy in Tasmania, is superb in its engineering and workmanship, and in rigorous compliance with the detail of those which Stutz created originally.

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I would like to thank everybody for their input so far, especially Laydon B. for pointing out interchangeable engines. Thank you also Ivan Saxton for your valuable comment on the engine's history. I have started a new thread under technical in the general forum in hope of finding a replacement soon !

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Martin 101 1929/30 Blackhawk does not have a boatail listed is your body a boatail . Most 1929/30 blackhawk have the 6 cyl engine My car has the 6 cyl. Have extra engine. Have seen 2 8 cyl cont. engine in cars Blackhawks. I think the block was cast for stutz and used only for stutz . I have most of a 8 cyl apart not complete . You show a motor 8 cyl. rebuild it ,is rare. Thanks John

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There were a couple of L8 Blackhawks from AK Miller's auction that may likely have had their side valve engines removed to become 1929 OHC Le Mans racer clones, supercharged or otherwise. I think Mr Norman Barrs in London may have one, and another may have gone to Lyndon Dickenson in Hobart, Tasmania.

Those two people may be the first that you might ask if they have a spare Continental side valve straight 8 to help your project.

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There were a couple of L8 Blackhawks from AK Miller's auction that may likely have had their side valve engines removed to become 1929 OHC Le Mans racer clones, supercharged or otherwise. I think Mr Norman Barrs in London may have one, and another may have gone to Lyndon Dickenson in Hobart, Tasmania.

Those two people may be the first that you might ask if they have a spare Continental side valve straight 8 to help your project.

Martin 101 I have the 6 cyl motor from N Barrs race car. There we no 8 cyl blackhawks at the sale of A K Miller. There is 1 dv24 motor and it installed in a Blackhawk Why are you not rebilling your motor? As I listed I have a block and other parts of a continental 8 . You may never find a complete motor, STUTZ L6

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Craigslist ad for Continental 14S straight 8   - NOT MINE
*** NOTE: seller misspelled the data on the motor ID tag
 
http://monterey.craigslist.org/pts/5168646758.html

1926 stutz jorden continantal - $2800 (carmel valley)

1926-1928 contenantal straight eight 145-2283 engine and transmission
this is the large meteor eight used on big sports cars of the 1920s , 48 in long from bell houseing to fan.
always kept inside ,turnes over easley complet and mounted on a stand.
phone calls only

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post-144371-0-35151800-1441156662_thumb.

post-144371-0-88131500-1441156670_thumb.

post-144371-0-52399700-1441156683_thumb.

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MARTIN I01      I have listed before that I have a Stutz 8 Blackhawk engine block cont 16s  What do you need?  John 8608060448

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Sorry I sold it for part , head  crank etc for a Ruxton  John Grunder . As I listed rebuild yours , You may not find a motor.

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Is anyone looking for a stutz engine? I have one for sale.  I don't know much about them.

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2 hours ago, Mattk said:

Is anyone looking for a stutz engine? I have one for sale.  I don't know much about them.

 

Stutz engines are like Graham Superchargers and Corvette's.   Nobody every threw one out.   You should post pictures,  depending on what the accessories are and which engine it is will go a long way in determining the market and interest for it.

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Thanks for posting the picture. It would be good to know the engine number, which was stamped on the block beside the distributer. There should also be a number on the plate on the cam cover, and while they should match, after all these years of swapping about they usually don't. If the manifold is original, the motor looks like it was made some time between Jan - April 1929, so the number would be between 30001 and 31000.

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for MATTK  THE stutz engine can you list pictures of other side.                            where is located and price  you can call me 860860448 thanks stutzl6

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Complete Engine with transmission and most accessories should find a home.   If Mark is right above,  and it is a later engine, even better.    I will caution you it is not worth a fortune, but does have value.

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Engine has been sold.

Engine number 30247 so Smile was correct in it being a 1929.

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