'37 Chrysler C-16 Coil Question

[fordee9r (Ron Springstead)]

I have a '37 Chrysler Royal C-16 Sedan with a suspected coil problem. When I got the car, the original coil was bypassed and a replacement crudely installed. I removed the switch-armored cable-coil assembly and cleaned all contacts of visible corrosion and the coil worked. The car completed 2 test drives of 20+ miles in July heat with no problems. In October, I broke down with simptoms of fuel starvation less than 10 miles down the road. Once towed back to my shop, the only change I made was to repair a very bad battery terminal. After the repair, the car started immediately thus eliminating the idea of no fuel in the carb.<P>I have been told that these coils can become very erratic in their performance. Also, NOS replacements can be just as unreliable. (probably due to age breaking down the unit) Does anyone have experiences with these coils?

[ply33]

I had a '56 VW Beetle (36 HP, 6v electrials) that would sometimes sputter and die, as if running out of fuel, if driven at freeway speeds. It seemed to happen more frequently on hot days too.<P>Every time it died, I'd get out and check for fuel at the carb (because it felt like it was running out of gas). It would have fuel. Then I'd check the spark. And it would have spark. I'd make sure all the wires were firmly seated and look for anything out of place. With spark and gas it should run, so I'd get in and it would start back up. The order I checked things in was always the same. Creature of habit <P>Finally, one time I noticed wax on my hands after I was cleaning up after one of these evolutions. I had no idea of where one could get wax on themselves in the engine compartment. Finally I found it: Wax was oozing from the tower on the ignition coil.<P>Replaced the coil and the problem of "running out of fuel" was fixed.<P>My theory (after the fact) was that the coil failed as it got hot and "healed" when it cooled down. By the time I got done checking the fuel system, the coil had cooled down enough to give me spark. Maybe if I had done my checks in the reverse order I would have found it faster. <P>Anyway, some lessons for me from this:<ul>[*]Some electrical problems can seem like fuel problems.[*]Coils can fail when warm but work fine when cool.

I'd try another coil. They are available. I might have one that would work for you in my garage. I will look for it this weekend.

[ply33]

Sorry, Ron.<P>I was pretty sure I had a Filco aftermarket coil designed for the Chrysler Corporation through the firewall mounting. but I can't find it. I will look some more tomorrow and if I find it I can send it on to you. It should work in your application.<P>I suspect that the original ignition system for your car is AutoLite, so a Filco coil might ding you on judging. I can't be sure on your electrical because the only Chrysler Parts book I have that covers your car is "Volume 2 of 3" and does not have the electrical or engine sections.<P>Tod

[fordee9r (Ron Springstead)]

Hey Tod,<P>Thanks for your attention to my problem and your offer to help but, PLEASE don't knock yourself out over this. First, my car is years away from worrying about points deductions for "incorrect coil". I am of the school that believes that an old car should become a dependable "driver" first and maybe a "show car" later. At the same time, any changes I make to the car I try to make in the most correct way possible.<P>My main concern is that a good friend (with many years of experience) has told me that even an old NOS coil could break down easily due to its age. NOS coils are available but I don't want to spend the big bucks if my friend's suspicions are correct.<P>Anyone have thoughts on this?

[ply33]

I suspect your friend is correct regarding coils failing due to age even if never used.<P>However, I am unaware of current production coils that are mechanically correct for our application. So I think we are stuck using 60 to 70 year old coils.<P>On the other hand, the coil I am using in my car at the moment is, as best I can tell, the original coil. And it is working fine. A nice blue spark and no evidence of problems. So old coils can work okay.<P>My "solution" is to try to have at least one spare around. Since not all the NOS coils are bad, there is at least some chance that my spare will work if I ever need it.

[Guest De Soto Frank]

Fordee9r,<P>Regarding the symtoms described, an erratic coil could be your problem; I had troubles much like our VW friend with my '54 Chevy truck that finally turned out to be a dying coil (aftermarket, I might add. Too many 12v "hot-shots", I guess.).<P>Regarding the Auto-lite dash-mounted anti-theft coil: the original(?) or at least very old unit in my '41 De Soto is still working OK.<BR>As long as it has not been stored in extreme conditions(ecessive heat or moisture), I would trust a NOS unit; I would probably not want to shell out the $$$ for it though .<P>If you've got some time & patience, how 'bout swap meets? Or make friends with somebody who does "clean-outs"- garages, cellars, etc.<BR>I have such an aquaintance, and through him I gotten some "goodies" through the years, often for free, including two or three of these coils.<P>Now, as far as an aftermarket substitute is concerned, if I remember rightly, the armored ignition cable can be removed from the ignition switch, and a wire with appropriate lugs run to a "conventional" coil (remembering Chrysler's "alternative" polarity), mounted under the hood. You could even scrounge a bracket from a later MoPar six to make the substitution more "palatable".<P>I'd agree with Ply 33, that it's always good to have "spares" on the road, whether it's a direct replacement or an aftermarket with the proper goodies to hook it up.<P>I also have to comment that from my own experience, in my 25 years of playing with "antique" cars, which includes using them as everyday drivers, I have never had to replace the coil in any of my 6 volt MoPars- this includes:1941 De Soto, 1947 Chrysler 6, 1948 Chrysler 8, 1948 Dodge, 1950 Chrysler 8, 1955 De Soto. To the best of my knowledge, all of these cars still had their original Auto-lite coils, most with their original rubber-stamp markings still legible. For what it's worth.<P>If the coil's not oozing wax or oil and produces a fat blue spark, I'd say it's probably ok.<BR>I've even had some that have soaked in buckets of water ( old toolsheds!) and still work...<P>There used to be such things as coil testers, but trying to find someone with such a device is challenging.<P>If the vendor of a prospective unit will offer some sort of guaranty, that might be a better risk.<P>Happy Hunting!

[fordee9r (Ron Springstead)]

My thanks to ply33 & Desoto Frank for your input so far. In my original post, I stated that the only repair I made was replacing a very bad positive (ground) battery terminal. Let me give you some more info to consider.<P>Prior to the breakdown, the starter would turn over quite slowly but the engine would eventually start. After the breakdown (2 days later) I was connecting the battery charger when the + terminal broke in two! Closer inspection showed that the old 6 volt cable was crudely stuffed into a "modern" 12 volt replacement terminal. I bought a "truck" battery terminal (designed to accept larger gauge cable)and the result was that the starter cranked noticeably faster and the engine fired almost immediately.<P>Do you think that maybe the whole problem was related to the bad battery terminal and the coil is not to blame? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

[ply33]

Could be. If the cable was not making a good connection then there could have been no voltage to speak of at idle (generators typically have very low output at idle). Perhaps the system voltage dropped enough to keep the ignition from working....

[Guest]

YES! The starter load will disable an ignition coil, especially with a poor battery cable. A stall test of a starter takes some 600 Ampres and produces about 13 foot-pounds of torque. Making this amount of current will drag the stock 6 volt battery to 3.5 volts. It should not take the full rated torque of the starter, but heat makes more resistance everywhere in the electrical system.<P>Ignition coils are esentially two long pieces of wire. The thick shorter primary winding connected through the common tap to a long thin secondary winding on the spark side. The common tap of the ignition coil is connected to the points regardless of the battery polarity. Heat will keep an ignition coil from working as good as it should.

[Guest De Soto Frank]

Fordee9r,<P>(Had to keep checking back to make sure I got your "handle" spelled right )<P>YES! If your battery terminals/cables are bad, nothing else will work right!<P>I think it is one of my old MoToRs manuals that states up front that "since the battery is the source of all electrical energy, it's efficiency must first be checked, since starting and idle performance are always poor if the battery and its connections are not up to standard."<P>I found out the hard way about the importance of good battery connections and cables- especially the correct gauge cable for 6volt cars!<BR>A good battery helps loads too; as long as I've been able to put a new 6 volt battery (of correct or larger capacity than stock) and had a properly operating charging system when I've put an old car "back on the road",<BR>I've had very few electrical problems,mostly taillight problems; knock-wood!<P>Make sure your battery ground and any body-chassis ground straps are clean & tight too.<BR>Good grounds are one of the more overlooked facets of electrical "problems".<P>Hope your troubles are few!<P>Aside from just plain wear & tear, my '41 De Soto still starts and drives in any kind of weather just fine. Not bad for 61 years.<BR>(No, I don't drive it in the salty snow, in case anyone was worried about that!)

[Handyman57]

Handyman57

Hey do guys know what the little toggel switch under the dash on the driverside of my chysler royal coupe is for

Thanks 

[ply33]

9 hours ago, Handyman57 said:

Handyman57

Hey do guys know what the little toggel switch under the dash on the driverside of my chysler royal coupe is for

Thanks 

Digging up a 14 year old post to ask a slightly different question? I think I would have started a new thread.

 

Can't say about your Royal, but there is a small toggle switch under the dash of my '33 Plymouth DeLuxe to the left of the steering column that controls the dash/instrument lights. Maybe it is the same on your Chrysler.

[keiser31]

11 hours ago, Handyman57 said:

Handyman57

Hey do guys know what the little toggel switch under the dash on the driverside of my chysler royal coupe is for

Thanks 

As ply33 stated....it is a dash light switch.

[JACK M]

On my 46 Chrysler its the interior lights switch, the panel light switch is next to the headlight switch under the dash.