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Leave it ir get rid if it?


Guest my3buicks
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Guest my3buicks

My Reatta has the dealer name and info on a decal under the rear tail light. Matches the color of the pinstriping. I'm going to be running the car through the AACA and BCA judging circuit this summer and I am trying to decide whether to leave it alone or remove it. Thoughts?post-30591-143142973012_thumb.jpg

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As much as I hate those things on my current cars, I would be inclined to leave it. It is a part of the car history. I can't imagine either club deducting points because it is there. After all that is the way the car was delivered to the original purchaser, right? What do the rules say about this?

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Guest my3buicks

I figured it would be a deduction, just trying to decide if I should gamble and live with a deduction or play it safe and say goodbye to it

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Guest my3buicks

My close friend will dis-own me if I take it off, he has always dealt with Bob Daniels and of course still does although not impressed with the new management thus far. I may just take a picture of it for a keepsake, or thought about etching it on paper so that another one could be made by a decal maker.

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Looks like another "gray area" thing. GM, or others, never did tell dealers not to put their ID on the vehicles they sold, just that some buyers requested it not be there. That could make it a "factory authorized accessory", just a more personalized one.

I understand that in CA, such "add-ons" were prohibited by law, which is why all CA vehicles tended to have license plate frames with the dealer's name and location on them. Same situation . . . manufacturer-allowed, but possibly buyer disapproved of. How would that be classified? Deducts for the license plate frame?

One possible consideration is that the paint under the decal/tape will still show where the ID item was. Either by non-fading or a slight color shift from the adhesives and UV exposure.

Now, the question is "How much of a deduct?"

NTX5467

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In 2008, I was showing my 1966 Mustang at the AACA Grand National Show in Melbourne FL.

I was going for my Senior Grand National Award and needed every point I could earn. My car had a window decal from the Mustang Club of America. This decal was worth 1 point in MCA national shows, that I also participated in.

I attended the judges school to ask about this decal, and if it would pose a problem during judging. I was told not to worry about it, since it pertained to a National club. I'm not sure this is similar to the issue being discussed, but neither decals were on our cars when they were delivered from the factory.

Obviously, I do not know if they actually took a point or not, but my car still scored well enough to earn a Senior Grand Narional Award at that show.

Kevin

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It's documentation of the car's history, something that helps to identify it from the other thousands of Reattas out there. I would definitely leave it. A judge would have to be awfully picky to deduct for something like this. It was on the car when it rolled off of the showroom floor, and I thought the condition of the car on the showroom floor was the standard for judging. They are not completely trimmed out when the leave the assembly line, and this is a good example of an accepted dealer add-on, in my opinion.

Pete Phillips, BCA #7338

Leonard, TX

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A judge who deducted a point for the decal wouldn't be picky, he would be doing his job. The standard is not what the car had on it when it rolled off the showroom floor but rather what it COULD have looked like with only factory authorized accessories. Dealer add-ons require a deduction unless they were specifically authorized by the factory and only factory literature can be used to document those accessories. Sorry but them's the rules! At most you might receive a 1 point deduction.

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Guest my3buicks

The beauty of it as far as the AACA side of it is, I would lose a point for the decal, but if it had non original headlights, let's say modern Sylvania Silverstar's, as long as they matched it wouldn't be a point deduction. There's really something wrong with that scenario. To me that is An unexcusable deficiency in the AACA judging rules.

Edited by my3buicks (see edit history)
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TRUE STORY: 1st brand new car I ever bought was a 1976 Ford Pinto. Had written into purchase contract car was to display no dealer name plate/decal/advertising. When went to pick car up was told to inspect it. I did and reported I would not be taking the car. When asked why I said it had a dealership (vinyl) sticker on the tail panel. The salesman blanched a bit, hummed and hawed, but had it removed after I pointed to the language in my purchase contract.

And to further link it to this thread, the dealer in question was West Hills Ford in Cincinnati, OH.

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A judge who deducted a point for the decal wouldn't be picky, he would be doing his job. The standard is not what the car had on it when it rolled off the showroom floor but rather what it COULD have looked like with only factory authorized accessories. Dealer add-ons require a deduction unless they were specifically authorized by the factory and only factory literature can be used to document those accessories. Sorry but them's the rules! At most you might receive a 1 point deduction.

So, if a car was shipped from the factory to the dealer with that white vinyl protective covering on it, and I showed up at an AACA national with that car with the protective vinyl still on it that would not be a deduction? That's how it left the factory!

I don't know when that process started/stopped, but I do remember buying a brand new 1995 Pontiac that was covered in protective vinyl the first time I saw it.

I would vote leave it.

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Re Pinto: Typically, the Make Ready dept would not have seen the special "no advertising" unless it was written on the repair order by the salesperson (who should have bird-dogged that situation from when the vehicle came off of the transport). In many cases, "make ready" is done before the salesperson would know their special ordered car was now available for sale. In any event, he should have taken care of getting it removed before the point of sale.

Re "End of the Assembly Line": At that point in the vehicle's history, it will not have the front license plate bracket installed (done at the dealership, for the states which use a front plate), or any other item which might be lost or damaged in shipment of the vehicle (radio antennas, wheel center caps, wheel covers, etc.). Any protective wraps to the exterior of the vehicle or the sprayed-on coatings to combat industrial fallout damage to the vehicle's paint during shipment would be "after the final inspection". Plastic seat cover "covers", installed on the seat items before they are shipped to the assembly plant, on the vehicle when it leaves the assembly plant, and on the vehicle when it's received at the dealership . . . IF missing at the time of judging, would need to accrue a deduction if they aren't there, as "missing items", under the

"End of the Assembly Line" orientation. As Chevy Vegas were shipped "one quart low on motor oil", then when they're judged on the show field, if they have a full crankcase, then that should be a deduction under the "End of the Assembly Line" orientation, too. On the last-gen GTOs, they were shipped with plastic protectors on the disc brake rotors, to help keep them from surface-rusting during their lengthy voyage from Australia, a deduction for them not being on the cars when judged on the show field, too? It would seem that if these things are "forgiven" at the time of judging, then the addition of a historic dealership decal on the vehicle could also be "forgiven".

Or should the judging manuals read: "End of the Assembly Line" correct for factory-delivered-to-customer vehicles rather than for vehicles which were shipped to dealers?

NTX5467

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Thanks for that clarification, Restorer32.

"Advertisement"? Possibly. ALSO a means for a dealership's operatives to determine IF they sold that particular vehicle, or not, should any "special consideration" become necessary during a repair process that need some "special orientation" for things like "Good Will Adjustments" in repair costs, which some might desire to make for "Customer Loyalty" considerations.

By the same token, if the car might be at a competitor's service department or dealership, that opens the door for "special consideration" to make that customer one of theirs in the future. It could also indicate which emissions hardware was on the vehicle, depending upon where it was originally sold (or shipped to from the factory). In modern times, such information is available to service advisors (and other dealership operatives) at the touch of a keyboard button or mouse click, but in the earlier times, it was not that easy to obtain. Nor would it be easy for a potential purchaser of a "private party sale" to access without "due cause".

Having the selling dealership's information openly displayed on the vehicle, it just took a matter of seconds to find the information, should anyone desire to find it.

Might also identify the vehicle as "native to the region" it was observed in, too.

Several different "side issues" other than just "free advertisement".

Regards,

NTX5467

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Mount them with the white letters on the inside of the wheel, so nobody can see them AND possibly pass judgment on your purchase (depending upon which brand they might be). Not unlike buyers who didn't desire whitewall tires in prior times (as it might mess with the owner's outwardly frugal orientation).

Enjoy!

NTX5467

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Chromed potmetal dealer badges in past times were often their own little works of art and I enjoy seeing those on a car if they're in good condition. Dealer marketing groups often supplied them to the dealers using factory-style lettering and emblems so a case can be made that they were factory authorized.

The cheap trinkety plastic ones that started showing up in late 70s, not so much as they tend toward generic. The Ford, Cad-Olds and Dodge dealerships here all used the same woodgrain accented plastic stick-on dealer badge with different names. The vinyl decal like Keith's Reatta has, meh. Cheap and generic.

However, I vote for leaving it and taking the deduction. It is after all part of the car's provenance. And as pointed out, unless the car has been competely unexposed to elements, when you remove it you will still see a shadow outline.

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"Advertisement"? Possibly. ALSO a means for a dealership's operatives to determine IF they sold that particular vehicle, or not, should any "special consideration" become necessary during a repair process that need some "special orientation" for things like "Good Will Adjustments" in repair costs, which some might desire to make for "Customer Loyalty" considerations.

By the same token, if the car might be at a competitor's service department or dealership, that opens the door for "special consideration" to make that customer one of theirs in the future. It could also indicate which emissions hardware was on the vehicle, depending upon where it was originally sold (or shipped to from the factory). In modern times, such information is available to service advisors (and other dealership operatives) at the touch of a keyboard button or mouse click, but in the earlier times, it was not that easy to obtain. Nor would it be easy for a potential purchaser of a "private party sale" to access without "due cause".

Having the selling dealership's information openly displayed on the vehicle, it just took a matter of seconds to find the information, should anyone desire to find it.

Might also identify the vehicle as "native to the region" it was observed in, too.

Several different "side issues" other than just "free advertisement".

Regards,

NTX5467

You are to be commended for your creativity in coming up with these theories. That being said, I am pretty sure a dealership would know whether it sold the car in question. If they did not, a check of their records would answer the question.

As for emissions equipment, that info would be on the mandated emissions sticker, would it not?

Truth be told, the reason back then, as now, was for advertising.

I know that when I raised the matter in my purchase contract, none of the above cited reasons were proffered for requiring the sticker. We all understood it to be a form of advertising for which the dealer declined to pay. That he refused to pay was enough for me to put in the purchase contract a "No Dealer Advertising" clause.

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I left the dealer badge from Motor Sales Buick in Baltimore off my 63 Riv when it was repainted, but it was in terrible condition and I had not documentation to show it was from the original dealer. If it was known to be the original dealer and the badge was in nice condition I would be inclined to leave it on. I'd still like a nice one just to have!

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Mount them with the white letters on the inside of the wheel, so nobody can see them AND possibly pass judgment on your purchase (depending upon which brand they might be). Not unlike buyers who didn't desire whitewall tires in prior times (as it might mess with the owner's outwardly frugal orientation).

Enjoy!

NTX5467

When forced to get white letters due to lacking supply of black wall tires, I do just that. Have the white mounted to the inside. That doesn't always persuade them to discount the white letter tire to black wall price...
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D Yaros, having been in a dealership parts department for close to 40 years, I've seen those exact scenarios play out many times. "I'm not going to give them anything as the didn't buy that car here", for example, when a customer goodwill situation might come up. "They bought that car here and many before that one, so I'll approve that warranty work for their vehicle". Chrysler used to have a clause in their factory warranties, in the middle '60s or so (when they had their 5-50 warranty programs) that gave a dealer the authority to send a warranty customer "Back to where they bought that car" for warranty work, provided they lived in the area, hadn't relocated, or were travelling.

I'll concur that many dealers, back then, usually ordered their cars a little differently than some other dealers might, which could tell them, at a glance, IF they might have sold that car. What that glance would not do is tell them IF they might have dealer-traded for that car and then sold it. When you sell 1500+ new vehicles/year, knowing "at a glance" if a dealer sold a particular car, can become frustrating.

Many sales people might not take the trouble to check records, but service advisors surely can and will. Our repair orders have a short history of service work we've done on a vehicle at the top of the form, for example. What's really revealing is when our service advisors do a "VIS" check in the GM computer system, for complete vehicle service history of warranty work, and discover some flaky things. All recall histories, warranty repairs, original warranty coverages, which dealer did the repairs, and any un-done recall/campaigns are all listed on the single form. It CAN be quite interesting, sometimes!

Emissions system decals? They will deteriorate with time and heat, and then fade away with age, especially the ones from the 1970s an 1980s, in color. More recent ones seem to last much better.

A dealer plate from dry West Texas might indicate a vehicle with little orientation toward "rust", but it can still have rust from blown-in sand which settled in the bottom of the doors, with many wet/dry cycles over the years. Just like a car with a dealer's plate from the Texas coast can mean you might need to look in particular areas for "rust".

I'll agree, a primary function of the dealer nameplate/decal on a car can be purely for advertising, but it can provide other information for later potential buyers. Those woodgrain plastic plates were quite popular in the middle 1970s. Just like the metal plates from earlier times.

Now, if you don't want others to know what you did and where you did it (car purchase, tire purchase, or whatever), then perhaps you should have done it somewhere else you're more proud of what you did? Might even get some peer approval from letting others see what you did . . . or "You did WHAT???"

Enjoy!

NTX5467

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Why would a dealership send warranty work away? Aren't they reimbursed by the factory for warranty work?

The factory gets a sizeable discount on labor. The mechanic too, gets paid a discounted wage.

The mechanic may miss out on a higher paying customer job if they give him the warranty work

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The factory gets a sizeable discount on labor. The mechanic too, gets paid a discounted wage.

The mechanic may miss out on a higher paying customer job if they give him the warranty work

"Factory/warranty" time used to be about 20% less than "Chlton or Motor" time. If you base everything on factory time, then some claim you're not realizing all that you could be making on a customer pay job. But if a dealership might choose to use ONLY factory time, then they might under-bid private shops to get the job.

Some dealers used to want to take care of THEIR customers first and let the others go. This was usually smaller dealerships, though, who (at the time) had enough business to pay their bills and weren't looking to build their business out of their comfort zone or the capabilities of their "paid for" real estate. It was Chrysler that empowered its dealers, back then, to send work away rather than have to do warranty work on vehicles they didn't sell (with the exceptions I mentioned). In any event, it's not good marketing to send work away, even warranty work, as it could later evolve into a car deal a few years later, unless such work kept the dealer from taking care of their own customers, who might go elsewhere the next time.

Whether a tech gets a lower labor price for warranty/good will work or not can depend upon the dealership. Even if the labor rate is the same, "lower labor hours" will result in less money for them anyway. Although our customers might really like the fact that we figured out a way to get their repair warrantied or "good willed", the techs didn't like it that much as it meant warranty time and rate.

NTX5467

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