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carnuts

1942 Chrysler Crown Imperial 8 passenger Parade car!

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Those '42 Chryslers had fantastic styling. I read the Derham article, didn't see mention of a '42 8-passenger open car, just some converted New Yorkers. Any photos with the top up? Is it operable? Buyers will definitely be interested in the condition of the top and its mechanism.

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Interesting car. Several differences in refinement where the top normally would attach to the A pillar between the car for sale and this one in a factory photo. Are those differences because your car doesn't have an operable top? Do you have some original documentation for the car? All records so far show that Derham stopped using that "shield" body tag in 1941, so I'm also curious to learn more about that.

post-33613-143142962332_thumb.jpg

Edited by West Peterson (see edit history)

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The car is also listed on Ebay. Here is the seller's answer regarding the top,

copied from his Ebay listing:

"There have been many questions about the condition of the top, or asking for pictures of the top. This vehicle has no convertible top. It is a "Parade Limousine" and is meant to be a full time topless vehicle. It is often called a "Phaeton" because it has no top and there is a separation cowl between the rear passengers and the driver. Many presidents had parade vehicles and many big cities owned one for major event parades."

The Ebay listing also states that the car was in the Harrah collection.

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It'd be good to see some documentation. Not every car that passed through Nevada is an ex-Harrah car. If the owner could show something supporting that claim it would be significant. Bill Harrah had a good eye for cars, to say the least.

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Would this be similar to the custom bodied Graham that was listed on eBay recently or the Tucker convertible?

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Mr. Seller, are you saying that your 1942 Chrysler

came out of the Derham shops without a top and

without a top mechanism? Or was it a closed car,

possibly from Derham, that was modified later?

Around the vent window, I see the Derham car in the

historical photo differs from your car.

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Didn't we recently have a large discussion on this very car? I did a search and can't find it (perhaps it was removed) but I think the gist of it was that it's a 7-passenger sedan with the roof cut off and some Derham badges added. Am I the only one who remembers that?

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This car was listed for sale here some months ago, and the thread was removed. I made the observation at the time that the seller had an office in the same small California town as a particular classic car dealership of dubious reputation, and wondered if there was a connection. Too bad the seller hasn't responded to the questions raised here.

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I checked my Harrah's Rosters from '63, '65 and '67, and no 1942 Chrysler Derham Parade Car (they did have a '46 Saratoga Derham "Continental" Coupe). Don't folks know that we can look this stuff up? Granted, maybe not every car in the Collection was listed in the Rosters (projects, recent acquisitions), but the Harrah's claim doesn't seem to hold water.

It's evident that the top's been cut off by the caps on the door sills where the window frames (and the rest of the doors!) were, plus the inelegant treatment at the A-pillar West noted.

$_57.JPG

$_57.JPG

file.php?id=8596&mode=view

Larger Highly unlikely that Derham craftsmen would have built such a car without a top.

The whole package is too wrong to be right.

TG

Edited by TG57Roadmaster (see edit history)

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Now that I'm looking at the top of the windshield frame, why does it have locating pins for a convertible top if it never had a top?

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I notice there are slots in the doors for windows but no provision to raise and lower them.

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Now that I'm looking at the top of the windshield frame, why does it have locating pins for a convertible top if it never had a top?

Matt,

I noticed that, too. Closer inspection would probably reveal an actual header with locating pins from a donor 'vert. Easier to make work than fabricating from scratch.

Curt,

Maybe the windows operate by voice-command. Hadn't even noticed lack of window cranks.

Still, I'm sure it served its owner's purposes for many years and will continue to do so for the next.

It's striking in appearance and how many people would really know its pedigree going by at 3 mph?

That is, except us here, the CCCA, the WPC and Imperial Clubs...

TG

Edited by TG57Roadmaster (see edit history)

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Matt,

I noticed that, too. Closer inspection would probably reveal an actual header with locating pins from a donor 'vert. Easier to make work than fabricating from scratch.

Curt,

Maybe the windows operate by voice-command. Hadn't even noticed lack of window cranks.

Still, I'm sure it served its owner's purposes for many years and will continue to do so for the next.

It's striking in appearance and how many people would really know its pedigree going by at 3 mph?

That is, except us here, the CCCA, the WPC and Imperial Clubs...

TG

This post takes me back in time to 1950. I was 18 and my brother who had a junk yard brought in this 1941 Chrysler Crown Imperial. It had a nice body and ran well. One major problem that I saw was that the power windows did not work. I took apart the front driver door only to find that the window cylinder was full of gunk. The gunk as found in a wheel or master cylinder from old brake fluid. Power window fluid back then was brake fluid. I positioned the window half up or maybe call it half down. Back in those years to make a turn, left or right, you would put your arm out the window to indicate what you had intended to do. Now to my point about the window, they were not voice activated. On the top of the dash near the windshield was this plate with 4 or was it 8 buttons, up or down, one for each window. I don't recall anything on the doors to raise or lower the windows. As a young man I do recall in the evenings after work I would put a dealer plate on a car. Once in a while it was the Crown Imperial. This car had a powerful 8 cyl motor and 3 speed shiftier on the column plus tip toe shift in each position so it had 6 speeds forward. I do recall wanting to do a spin out with those hugh 820x15 tires. As I popped the clutch all I did was break the welds of the spring perch on the axle housing and had the pinion shaft pointing up at the floor boards. A little side bar 6 years later in 1956 whenever I got married my brother gave me a 1930 Ford Model A pickup which I still have today. Now I wish it could also had been that Imperial

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The car sold on eBay, $35.1K, so the seller almost got his price. He did well, especially for a car more likely featuring "Coachwork by Sawzall" than by Derham.

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Maybe the new owner will come on to this site with questions of provenance like the Graham owner did. Is there any kind of buyer protection offered by eBay in case the new owner may want to back out?

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Occasionally we hear comments that the Forum's for-sale

ads should allow no comments.

This is a perfect instance where collectors asking

important--probing but polite--questions on the Forum

could save a buyer potentially tens of thousands of dollars.

If this body did not come from Derham, but from a sedan's

later roof removal, imagine a buyer's disappointment

(and substantial loss of money) if he didn't know in advance!

Edited by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

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Though the car was reported sold on Ebay as noted above,

I see that it's for sale again on the internet, by the same seller:

http://www.collectorcarads.com/Chrysler-Crown/63461

The current internet listing says the car is in Auburn, California.

It's evidently a consignment, because he lists office phone numbers

in the U. S. and in Germany and refers to "the current owner."

The seller states that only one "parade car" without a top

was made by Derham. I've never heard of such a body style

in that era with no weather protection. Is that possible?

Edited by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

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If you're a custom coachbuilder, and the buyer says, "I don't want a top," the custom coachbuilder builds it without a top. Very possible.

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Anyone have 100% irrefutable proof positive that this is not what the Seller is claiming it is ... ???

Jim

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Yes, it's called common sense. If the seller could document it he would. Buyer beware.

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Anyone have 100% irrefutable proof positive that this is not what the Seller is claiming it is ... ???

Jim

Probably not, but in the collectible world, the onus is on the seller to provide irrefutable proof that it IS real. Otherwise, buyer beware.

I suspect the seller doesn't believe it was built in 1942. If he did, the asking price would be much, much higher, and rightfully so.

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Park it next to the Tucker convertible. Think about it. A header with pins for a convertible top but no top? Window slots in the door but no cranks? Sure, could be power windows but why on a car with no top? It's not like they would protect the back seat passengers who sit way behind the windows. Allegedly original door panels held in place with screws and trim washers? It doesn't pass the smell test.

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I know I'm way late to this conversation but in my opinion this is a modified closed car.  I searched for some other pictures since the original link is not showing anything.  To me the give-away is the partial door frame over the vent window.  Factory convertibles have stainless frames around the side windows that butted up to the top frame.  The center windshield division bar is also strange.  The perimeter windshield trim looks wider than normal too.  There does appear to be a hose running from the body to the door which could indicate power windows but I don't see a bank of switches anywhere on the dash.  The radio almost looks aftermarket and appears to be missing buttons and knobs.  I suppose it is possible that Derham was asked to modify a 4 door Imperial closed car into a parade car side car production was shut down and they could not get another convertible ordered.  The boot is flat and square compared to the actual convertible which  slopes down to the front.  If there was no top ordered why did it need to stick up in the back.  I think the real secret would be to explore the structural system of the car.  Closed cars use the roof as a support brace.  Factory convertibles use the fire wall, floor and behind the seat for bracing.  Is there an X-brace built into the frame?  Is the dash welded in? Is there a big brace behind the seat.  Does the body sit on a rubber cushion at the firewall and behind the back seat or just anti-squeak?  If there are rubber cushions there is no strong transfer of loads from the body to the frame brace.

1942 Chrysler Imperial Dash.JPG

1942 Chrysler Imperial Parade Car.JPG

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