John N. Packard Posted June 23, 2001 Share Posted June 23, 2001 I'm cleaning up the undercarriage on my '54 Packard. Any suggestions as to what to do about rust on the underside of the rocker panels? Is POR-15 suitable for applying directly on the rust, or should an attempt be made to remove it first?<P>jnp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 24, 2001 Share Posted June 24, 2001 I have never been to impressed with por 18.I have had good results using Eastwoods corless primer followed by their chassis black.I use chassis black for generators,starters and many other restoration uses.Ifind it to very durable,and does not scratch and chip during assembly,I use the spray cans . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nailswede Posted June 24, 2001 Share Posted June 24, 2001 A little sand-blasting before painting is my suggestion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 25, 2001 Share Posted June 25, 2001 John ~ I would hesitate to sandblast on a chassis unless it was a completely disassembled unit with all possible moving parts removed. Blasting a chassis on an assembled car can introduce sand between moving surfaces that are in contact with each other, and then you can imagine what will happen over time. <P>Just my non-professional opinion. ~ hvs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nailswede Posted June 25, 2001 Share Posted June 25, 2001 Yes i do agree with hvs that you should only blasting parts that is away from car..rocker panel is the same as valve-cover?but dont paint on inside of them..blasting gives a very clean and dry surface to paint on,and the paint is still there years later..from factory the paint did not look good for a long time.must have been some oil and dirt on engines when they painted them <p>[ 06-30-2001: Message edited by: Anders Larsson ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BruceW Posted June 25, 2001 Share Posted June 25, 2001 On the sandblasting.....<P>One thing I had always heard was... when using something such as POR-15 or Eastwood's brand, or any brand of paints that apply on rusty metal.... you do not want to sand or bead blast. Rather you want to only take off the scale with something such as a wire brush. I was told that sandblasting makes the surface too smooth and slick and will not allow proper adhesion. Paints applied to rust such as POR-15 need a coarse surface to adhere too. <P>Least thats what I was always told..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest c.johnson Posted June 25, 2001 Share Posted June 25, 2001 Also, isn't POR-15 a rust converter - it converts the rust to a protective coating?<P> <P>cj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 26, 2001 Share Posted June 26, 2001 No POR is not a rurt converter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 26, 2001 Share Posted June 26, 2001 Re: Por 15-<P>A great product IMO. It does however, require proper surface preparation for proper adhesion. <P>Sandblasted surfaces are idea for POR, as it leaves a bit of "tooth" in the metal for the POR to adhere to. Rusty metal is also fine, but I worry about longitudinal performance of the product. Metal that has been dipped or chemically stripped is not a good candidate... it's too smooth, and the POR will eventually peel away. <P>I've used gallons of the stuff over the years, and I highly endorse it. It's expensive, but worth every penny! Oh, by the way, store the containers upside down after you have opened them. The air in the container will cause the paint to skin over... this way the skin will always be on the bottom. <P>Babbit Man! (A superhero)<P>24 Ford<BR>41 Dodge<BR>51 Plymouth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 26, 2001 Share Posted June 26, 2001 Babbit Man ~ Great idea that upside down storage. Wouldn't that also apply equally well to <B>ALL</B> paint products? I never would have thought of that, but it would sure eliminate a lot of crap in paint cans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 26, 2001 Share Posted June 26, 2001 Anders, I don't think John's car is apart and so I go back to my earlier post about sandblasting an assembled chassis. ~ hvs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John N. Packard Posted June 27, 2001 Author Share Posted June 27, 2001 Howard is correct, this car is not disassembled. That is why I was considering a "rust treatment" type of paint. I know from previous threads that the POR-15 should be used as an undercoat. This car is a driver and I would like to treat the rust and give it a decent appearance. Babbit, that's a neat idea about the paint can storage. Why didn't we think of a trick like that!<BR>jnp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chacheska Posted June 27, 2001 Share Posted June 27, 2001 The paint trick reminds me of another paint trick - immersing spray paint cans up to the cap in hot water before using. Improves the flow and atomization of the paint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nailswede Posted June 27, 2001 Share Posted June 27, 2001 Why paint on a rysty metal? just sandblast it away and the paint stays there forever i have never seen a product that ``seals´´ the rust forever! and its not very profesional either to hide the rust for next owner of the car.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 30, 2001 Share Posted June 30, 2001 I have used POR 15 and have been very pleased. I am almost positive that the directions instruct you to remove the loose rust and coat with POR 15 for best results. If I m not mistaken they actually state that thier product works best wehen applied over rust as opposed to clean metal. I was very suspect of this concept and product when I first used it but it seems to work and I hear nothing but good reviews of the product. HVS is absolutely correct about not sandblasting the area while it is on the car. I bought a sandblaster and was ready to sandblast everything with rust. I quickly learned that in many cases the cleanup of the sand is not worth it. I have went back to the old wire brush on an air tool like I used to. Takes a little longer but no cleanup. If it is a driver I would coat it with POR 15 and call it a day. My 2 cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAD36 Posted June 30, 2001 Share Posted June 30, 2001 I just did the under-side of my Buick this past winter and the front suspension while it was completely disassembled. I've used POR numerous times and have had mixed results after a wire brush job. My recommendation: Make sure the surface is REALLY REALLY clean. You can buy a special cleaner from POR 15 or Bill Hirsch - I found Castrol Super Clean to work fine however. I wire brushed first - definitley get all the loose stuff off and scrape it if you have to, hit it with Castrol and a scrubber, rinse it off with hot water (I hooked the garden hose up to the laundry sink and cranked up the hot water heater to "meltdown" while the "boss" was out) Then I hit the pieces with a zinc phosphate metal prep. The POR literature recommends this and I tried it this time around to see if I would get more consistent results and I did. POR adheres real well to this - it does not go on evenly and fisheyes like mad on shiny or relatively smooth surfaces, like radiator trays. POR sells the metal prep but Bill Hirsh has the gallon size for a better deal. I would also recommend using the satin finish - the glossy is way too shiny.<P>I'll go one more on the upside down can idea. POR has a shelf life, I think 4-6 months if I remember right, and cures fast under humidity - it doesn't take much of an air leak to skin it up or get a thick layer of gunk inside the can even if you think you cleaned the lid groove out good. Do your job on a humid day, put a piece of saran wrap over the top of the can, put lid on, store upside down in a refridgerator or freezer on top shelf if possible. Also, if you are not using the whole can, take out what you need (with like a medicine cup) and put it in a seperate container, seal the can up again ASAP. Don't keep dipping in the can if you can help it as curing residue from your brush will act as a catalyst and reduce the shelf life. Following these steps, I've been able to get about a year shelf life out of a quart can. Remember to keep it out of sunlight (being urethane based its UV sensitive), not much of a problem for frames and floorpans, but I got surprised on the back half of my gas tank I did a few years ago - didn't stay stuck on so good. I think I'll try Eastwood next time - their product is UV resistive. I will say that if you prep the surface good, POR brushes on smooth and self levels nice. Oh - wear gloves too - the stuff is like iron on the skin. <P>Remember the safety glasses and have fun!<p>[ 06-29-2001: Message edited by: KAD36 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest trevor ward Posted June 30, 2001 Share Posted June 30, 2001 i am in the throes of a resto on a '64 le sabre, and about a year ago when the car was only a driver, i gave all the fender wells a good go with a wire brush and 80 grit paper etc to give bill hirsch's miracle paint a go and one year on , now i am being really thorough, i am cleaning off all of this product and am less than pleased to find that the miracle paint is just flaking off in great pieces with no hint of what looks like good adhesion! I say this 'cos i am sure that por15 is virtually the same as the hirsch product in that it is a moisture cure polyurethane. I really would NOT recommend this type of paint to my worst enemy!! I am now using a paint called "epoxy mastic", which, unfortunately, i do not think is readily available in the states, but any body keen to find out more about it can find all the info at the classic car restoration website at <A HREF="http://www.rust.co.uk" TARGET=_blank>www.rust.co.uk</A> it is a great paint and i would recommend THIS paint to any one!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest COMPACTBC Posted July 1, 2001 Share Posted July 1, 2001 Regarding paint can storage, I have found that storing spray cans upside down also makes them work better next time you need to use them. Also an (unpluged)old refrigerator makes a real good paint locker for fire safety.<BR>Bruce <p>[ 06-30-2001: Message edited by: COMPACTBC ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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