Guest kfrish Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 Verification needed: is this car (picture attached) a 1924 Ford coupe? The wheels are different than the ones I see in other pictures. Are these alternative wheels or after market... and why the difference?Backstory: My grandpa bought a 1924 Ford Coupe (engine # 10847606) for $525 on 11 Dec 1924 in Iowa. He married my grandmother in Nov 1925 and they immediately left on a 5 month road trip across the western US. They sold the car in California at the end of their trip and evidentially the person that bought it was later killed in a car wreck with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 That is a first time I have seen those wheels on a T. Neat look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 Sure does look like a 1924. The wheels are rare. Not a lot of people chose the discs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kfrish Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 Sure does look like a 1924. The wheels are rare. Not a lot of people chose the discs.Thank you for your reply. So you agree that it is a 1924 Ford Coupe? You call the wheels "discs". Was that a choice when you bought the car back then or would it be an after-market modification? Why would one choose the "discs" over the spoked wheels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 A lot of folks did not really trust wood spokes. The new wire wheels and discs provided some security. They were stylish, too. Not certain if Ford Motor Company provided discs as an option, but some Model T guys will know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
28 Chrysler Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 Wood spoke wheels were more forgiving than the early disk wheels on the primitive roads. Disk wheels were to make the car racy much like the mag wheels of the 60's and the optional wheels of new cars today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1912Staver Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 The disk wheels were almost certainly not a factory option. They may have been dealer installed when the car was new. Both disk and wire wheels were reasonably popular factory options on more expensive cars {as well as aftermarket }, but not on Fords.Greg in Canada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kfrish Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 Thank you for the insights into my Grandpa's wheels. To condense: The 1924 Ford Coupe came with wooden spoked wheels (the spokes were wood and the rims were wood as well? or were the rims metal?) and the disc wheel covers (am I correct in assuming that these were disc wheel covers that went on over the spoked wheels?) were not factory options - they may have been a dealership option or an after market option. Their purpose would have been to add security and stability and stiffness to the ride. This car was to be used for a long road trip of 5 months from Iowa out west so that may have been why the discs were added. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 (edited) The original wheels on Fords and most other cars of the time, were made with wooden spokes and a steel rim. If you changed a tire just the rim came off. On old pictures you can see the spare on the back of the car, with just the rim and tire. The wooden spoke part had a steel band to hold it together, the steel rim and tire slipped on over it and was held by bolts.Wooden wheels were good on the rough roads of the time because they were flexible. They absorbed a lot of shocks and vibration. A wooden wheel could bend away to the side when it hit a rock, and bounce back. The spokes were made of hickory like an axe handle. A very tough type of wood.The discs you see in the picture are the wheels. They are not hub caps. Disc wheels were something new in the early twenties. They were supposed to be stronger than wood spokes but if you ever bent one, they stayed bent. They were also harder riding and noisier. They were something new and fancy, but went out of style after a few years.Stamped steel wheels of the modern type, came along about ten years later when cars, wheels, tires and roads had all changed for the better.I might also add, that the coupe was a very expensive Ford. Most of them were open roadsters and touring cars. A closed car cost a lot of money, nearly double the cost of a roadster.In 1924 you could buy the cheapest Ford roadster for $275 FOB Detroit. $525 would be about right for a coupe delivered in Iowa.I have never seen a Ford Model T with disc wheels either. They must be an aftermarket accessory. In those days Fords were the most popular car by far, and there were thousands of accessories you could buy for them. Edited December 25, 2014 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Dobbin Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 I had a friend in the 1980's that restored Model T's and always searched out those wheels for his cars. John McComb liked fast Model T's and was afraid of the then 60 year old wooden spoke wheels. Really gave the car a special look. Maybe your grandfather thought the same. After spending for the high dollar closed coupe, the extra would have been a small price for his satisfaction.I restored a 1915 Model Touring car in the early 1980's and read a notice to dealers from Henry Ford that said If the customer wants other than black, paint the car too satisfy the customer. Suggested price for painting was $15.00. My thought was that if I had $440.00 to spend in 1915, I sure could come up with another $15.00. Mine is still red as far as I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Henderson Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 Rare yes, because they were a pricey after market accessory made by Disteel Wheel Corp'n of Detroit, Michigan, advertized for Fords at $75 for a set of 5. The company's hype was "Disteel Wheels greatly simplify tire-changing because they are easily slipped off and on. They also make tires last longer because they never wobble or run out of true. And they are safer---no spokes to break if the car accidentally skids against the curb. The fifth wheel is handy in emergencies." (no mention of what their effect was in a strong cross wind). I'm not a Model T expert, but 1924 looks about right to me. Possibly a bit earlier, but not a later '25, which had front hinged doors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPrice Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 I hate to bust your bubble but that is NOT a '24 Model T. It would have to be a '22 or earlier. The '24 coupe had front hinged doors, not the rear hinged doors shown in the photo. I know this because I owned a '24 coupe for 50 years. I wish I could identify the actual year of the car.Rog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Henderson Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 Perhaps not the last word, but the Clymer book, Henry's Wonderful Modet T, pictures a coupe with rear hinged doors that is captioned as a '23. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahartley Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 Suicide doors were discontinued for the 1923 model year.Pity because they offer much easier entry in Coupes and Tudors especially.Scan from the book "From Here to Obscurity" by Ray Miller and Bruce mcMalley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kfrish Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 My appreciation to all of you for your input and expertise. The picture I posted was not dated so I thought it COULD be a photo of Grandpa's new 1924 Ford Coupe that he took to California on his honeymoon. Thanks to those who pointed out the door hinge. Now I believe the photo must be of an earlier car that he had before the new 1924 Coupe. I know for sure that he did take a 1924 Ford Coupe to CA as the Iowa State registration is stamped on the back with a temporary California non-resident permit issued by the Automobile Club of Southern California, Pasadena. Plus I just found an envelope containing an automobile insurance policy for a Ford (Factory #3603753) Tour (type) 22 1/2 HP 4 cylinder $660.00 1919 (year built) 1920 (year bought). So back to the drawing board... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cben09 Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 If you have washed a spoke wheel carthen washed a disk wheel car,,,,,,,,,especially if the wheel oil seal leaks,,,,there will be no discussion Disks winnnn,,Cheers ,,Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahartley Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 Ford (Factory #3603753) Tour (type) 22 1/2 HP 4 cylinder $660.00 1919 (year built) 1920 (year bought). So back to the drawing board...Which means it was built in December of 1919 making it a 1920 model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bamford Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 Model Ts were never built with disc wheels.The only T wheels used in the early '20s had hickory wood spokes with a steel felloe and galvanized demountable clincher rims (like a bicycle). Photo attached is a closeup of my 1924 Model T Speedster wheels which are correct for 1925 and several years earlier.The black "rim" (felloe) is steel and permanently fastened to the spokes, which protrude into the felloe. The demountable clincher rims are bolted through the felloes in four places as shown.The wheels on your car are aftermarket, no question. A cheaper alternative to replacing the five wheels was to use bolt-on discs to hide the spoked wheels, on the outside only. I doubt that is the case here, as there is no evidence of the four rim bolts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kfrish Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 Which means it was built in December of 1919 making it a 1920 model.Cahartley, Thanks for looking up those engine numbers for me. Do you think it is possible that the car in the photo I posted at the start of the thread could be a 1920 Ford Coupe (except the insurance policy said "Tour" under the type of car but it could be wrong)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlLaFong Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 To muddy the waters even more, 10847606 indicates a November 1924 build date, making it a 1925 model Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bamford Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 The waters might not be all that much muddier — a November build could certainly have been purchased in early December, and it could have easily been incorrectly titled as a 1924 at that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahartley Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 Any time a clear title incorrectly states the year of manufacture let it ride.Do NOT mess with an otherwise good title.The state of Wisconsin titled my '25 Dodge Sedan as a '27....... :mad: ........I'm not messing with it.I know what it is and any potential buyer will know what it is and that's all that counts....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 I don't believe Ford used the model year system at that time.In addition, many states dated the car to the first time it was titled. So a car made in late 1919 could be titled as a 1919 or 1920 depending when it was first sold and titled.There was also a difference in how they were identified, some titled by engine number, some by chassis number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlLaFong Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 Ford did use the normal model year system. All Model "T"s were registered by the engine number until 26 when the same number was stamped on the frame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 When did they start the new model year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AlCapone Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 My Ol Dad is not wrong too often and he says its a 1920. You should post ii on the Fordbarn Model T site and I garantee a quick, accurate answer. Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlLaFong Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 The '09 came out in October '08. The 25 was in October '24. I would say October was the new car introduction, for Fords at least Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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