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dwhiteside64

A Couple of Nice '64s on Ebay

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During my hunt for surviving '64s I ran across these two beauties:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/181601244244?forcerRptr=true&item=181601244244&viewitem=&sspagename=ADME:SS:SS:US:1120

http://www.ebay.com/itm/171566426947?forcerRptr=true&item=171566426947&viewitem=&sspagename=ADME:SS:SS:US:1120

I personally think they are way over priced (even the dual 4v example), with the black one slightly but tastefully modified IMHO. What do you guys think?

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Thanks, Darren - I'd suggest we all keep an eye on actual transaction prices and see if these offerings reach $39K or $32K. I'm not a real expert on '64s (I have a '63) but the seat inserts on the red one look aftermarket, and the black one has mods that to me would lower a bid. Someone in my "other car" club (British) always likes to tell other members: "you didn't but too high, you just bought too early!" So those may be words for us Riv aficionados to live by. Articles such as the one Ed Raner sent around earlier this week are, to me, both encouraging and discouraging at the same time. I too would like to see first-gen Riv prices firm up a bit, but with that comes higher insurance rates, and probably higher restoration rates. But like many, I buy old cars because first and foremost, they have to stir my soul. All the best this holiday season!

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Hi Jan

Yes these are prices that I haven't seen before and only a few have sold at that level in the past (according to Hagerty's website). The red car has what I believe to be the fawn cloth and vinyl option 613, a weird color combination with Claret Mist if you as me. I agree with your thoughts concerning the dual edge sword of price increases. It's great if you're in the market to sell but bad when you are in it for the love of the hobby.

Hope you have a great Christmas season as well!

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The red '64 has an aftermarket interior. I enlarged the picture and can see a pattern in the cloth that resembles the material that was on the seats of my 84 El Camino. The color of the vinyl is "close" to the saddle color, but the cloth inserts don't match anything.

For the money they're asking, the black car would be better off without the amp in the trunk and the aftermarket wheels. Someone who owns a black '64 will have to tell me for sure if the door panels are correct. My black '63 with white interior has white door panels.

Ed

Edited by RivNut (see edit history)

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The red '64 has an aftermarket interior. I enlarged the picture and can see a pattern in the cloth that resembles the material that was on the seats of my 84 El Camino. The color of the vinyl is "close" to the saddle color, but the cloth inserts don't match anything.

For the money they're asking, the black car would be better off without the amp in the trunk and the aftermarket wheels. Someone who owns a black '64 will have to tell me for sure if the door panels are correct. My black '63 with white interior has white door panels.

Ed

The money being asked for these cars is what you would expect to pay for a number one condition car. These two cars aren't even close to being a number one car. They both appear to have nice paint jobs on the outside, but everywhere else they are

no. 3 condition drivers. There are early Rivieras that are worth what these asking prices are and even a lot more but these two cars

are not one of them. Basically what they are is beaters that have been repainted in order to flip them for big bucks. If you took either

one of these cars to an ISCA show you would be sucking air at the awards ceremony. I'm not sure you would even be accepted for entry. If you want to see what a no.1 early Riviera looks like, I would refer you to the two 65 Rivieras that have

won best of show at the last two national Riviera meets. Those are no. 1 condition cars. The two cars for sale on ebay would need about

40,000 dollars spent on them to even begin to approach the condition of the last two Best of Show winners at the ROA meet.

If these cars are worth $39,000 then those other cars are worth $99,000 and the old car price guides are way way out of whack.

Edited by Seafoam65 (see edit history)

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...Someone who owns a black '64 will have to tell me for sure if the door panels are correct. My black '63 with white interior has white door panels.

Ed

I also thought that was a bit strange. Don't the seats usually match the headliner and door panels???

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OK Riviera People: For those asking prices I am delighted to find everything under the sun wrong with them. Mitch

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The way gas prices are dropping I think these cars are going to become more sought after and possibly bring higher prices.but nothing like what these two cars asking prices are.

arnulfo

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Someone who owns a black '64 will have to tell me for sure if the door panels are correct. My black '63 with white interior has white door panels.

Ed

Hi Ed,

My '64 is factory black/black and I can tell you the door panels are not correct because they have a 4" speaker carved into them. :)

If you subtract that modification, they look correct.

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I know I might be nit picking, but these cars wouldn't pass muster at a judged BCA show. For these prices, they should be more correct than they are. With regard to the red one, aside from the obvious wrong interior fabric, the wire wheel covers should have the "R" emblem instead of the Buick Tri-Shield, the resonators are missing from the exhaust system, the cowl vents should be body color, and headlights should be T3's. These are all easily rectified but it will cost money. Nice enough cars and I hope they get their price.

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I know I might be nit picking, but these cars wouldn't pass muster at a judged BCA show. For these prices, they should be more correct than they are. With regard to the red one, aside from the obvious wrong interior fabric, the wire wheel covers should have the "R" emblem instead of the Buick Tri-Shield, the resonators are missing from the exhaust system, the cowl vents should be body color, and headlights should be T3's. These are all easily rectified but it will cost money. Nice enough cars and I hope they get their price.

Good points Pat but it might just sneak in for a win at an AACA event with those wheels and lack of resonators:

http://www.ultramotors.net/vehicle-details/1964-buick-riviera-coupe-d1bbd157f2a2a548ac17f1edf129faae

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Ok, i'm going to have to have to chime in just so the other side gets a voice in this. The numbers matching crowd seems to have plenty of say, but i think you guys are off base a bit. I think anyone who has even done a frame on restoration knows how much time it would take to get these cars whipped into shape. It is pretty obvious some time has been spent on both of them. The matching numbers crowd is the reason we don't see more of them around and perhaps a contributing factor as to why the value is depressed.

I could see beating the car down over shoddy body work, sub-par interior, or something nutty like having small-block ford powering it, but that isn't the case. You guys are picking at them because the door panels don't match the original scheme and other minor cosmetic choices they made? Seems petty to me. Sure, if my object was to win a car show where bean counters were telling me how nice it was i guess you guys would win, but i think you are missing the true point. The car was brought back to like new condition and can be driven. Someone should be driving it and enjoying it and it isn't being scrapped. In a world where we don't have many of these left i applaud the fact they are being taken on as projects by anyone, factory correct or modified. I actually also see the value in having people who treat them like museum pieces to keep history intact, but to me seeing them driving around on the street is what is exciting. Just because a shop throws their theme at something and changes a few things around doesn't automatically lower the value to me, and obviously some others.

We seem to be the worst about picking on things due to originality. You don't see that as much in other hobbies. Take guns for instance. You wouldn't see a colt 1911 A1 with aftermarket grips, sights, and some modifications on the slide/trigger and automatically decide it is worth half of what a stock military issue .45 was worth. Sometimes it is an improvement. I totally expect these cars to come back a little with resto-modders. I think it is a perfect platform. The car itself is beautiful with the lines and look it has. It has room for all kinds of aftermarket upgrades on the engine, transmission, exhaust, brakes, and interior. They can be bought fairly cheap with restoration in mind and yet there are not 1000s of them running around like '69 camaros.

Sorry guys, these cars might not win a bca show, but i would love to see them at rod and custom show. Again, i realize resto-mod is only one segment of the hobby population, but give the guys some credit for having a couple of Rivieras in good running shape if they are that and maybe realize the museum crowd is also just a part of the car scene. Hell, maybe if they come up in value we will start getting more parts made for these things. That would be a winner for everyone in my opinion.

-Jeff

Edited by devildog93 (see edit history)

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I could not agree more with you devildog93!

Cars are made to be driven and that's what I do. I like my Riviera as it is and I try to keep it as original as is possible to me.

IMHO there are people who like to drive and people who want to work on there car and will do anything to keep it original. Both cars are beautiful and the owners have my fully respect. Get it on the road and enjoy!

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OK Riviera People: I only have "some" control over how I enjoy my cars. How others enjoy their cars? What does it matter? I hope they enjoy them the many ways they enjoy them.

I have always said that matching numbers (with a tiny exception here and there) is meaningless mythology. Unfortunately people started to hear about it when one is selling and now it's wicked into the total picture.. The Corvette people started with that mythology in the late 70's and for me, it sucked the fun right smack out. Another unfortunate thing is that the reality of matching number mythology has crept into the equation of value and as much as I personally could care less, even a guy like me must understand the part it plays in some car's values.

Except for a handful of Frankenstein 63 Rivs or a hi-buck 65 GS I see no value difference of any First-Gen Riv with or without it's original engine. This may contradict my last statement but I will say this. In my ego-inflated opinion I believe that cars restored to more stock condition (Engine notwithstanding) seem to be much better as a whole. Mitch

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I notice in one picture there's a Mecum Auction tag on the rear. Wonder where the bidding stopped?

Ed

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