1932 Series 50 - Just pulled engine - WOW!

[project61]

OK, I may be spoiled, but I expect engines and transmissions to be separable. It is impossible to remove the bell housing with the transmission as on newer cars, because that dowelled housing wraps around to the front of the flywheel! It seems like the clutch/flywheel has to be dropped out the bottom with the housing in place! That meant separating behind the housing, at the transmission itself. OK, except there is a spring between the throw-out arm and the transmission, INSIDE the housing, and only (barely accessible through a small access/vent panel on top. Oh, and of course, the throw-out bearing drops away, as the transmission shaft slides away. I have no idea how I will get it all back together! It would seem to need five small hands on multi-jointed arms to hold all the bits in place while wrestling it into alignment.

Has anybody else pulled one of these early straight eights with the wraparound clutch-housing/engine mount castings? Are there secrets I missed?

Thanks,

jc

[project61]

OK, at long last, with a nicely rebuilt engine, and some decently un-cold weekends, I re-installed it.  OR so I thought. 

 

On the first day, I was able to tilt the tranny and support the engine so as to thread the tranny shaft and spline through the clutch, but the tip just seemed to resist getting lined up enough to slip into the tail bearing of the crank.  I wiggled and jiggled and finally got two longer-than-actual bolts started between tranny case and bell, so all but tilt error was removed.  I made gap gauges to be sure I got the two faces parallel by adjusting those bolts.  And, with a PWANG, it popped in.  I walked the bolts on home and I was happy! 

 

The next day, I fiddled and futzed to get the mounts and shims aligned enough to get their bolts in place.  Over and under, mirrrors and lamps.  Pry and pull.  Finally, all the bolts slid home.  Once that was done, I thought it was all good.  I retightened the steering box to the frame rail and just for grins, put a 12 inch extension in the pulley crank boss to turn the engine.

 

NADA, ZIP - totally locked up!  I am distraught.  Something MUST have happened when the pilot found home, but even if it managed to destroy that little bearing and bind crank to tranny shaft, why would the engine not turn in neutral?

 

HELP!  Any ideas?  I really don't want to pull the engine again, but unless I'm missing something really big, I think I must.

 

Sadly,

jc

[F&J]

Can you tell us exactly what new parts were replaced.  If we know which ones were changed and therefore which ones were original to the car, it may narrow down the problem area.

 

also, did you use any new bolts on the trans, starter, or bell?  I've seen a "too long" bolt cause the flywheel to be locked up

 

I would also like to know how much of a noise it made when forcing those trans bolts.  That bothers me a little, as even if the clutch disc was not 100% aligned with a tool, it sort of should have been a slight drag on the trans going inwards, until it was flush....not a bang.

[smithbrother]

It has been my experience that if it doesn't slide in WITHOUT using longer bolts or forceful means, then something isn't just right.

I wish you well,

Dale in Indy

[my31buick]

just a  thought. but those engines have very little clearance from the rear main bearing cap  and flywheel bolts. Is it possible it is binding there?

[DonMicheletti]

Assuming the engine turned before installation, it has to be the bolts used.   Once on my '32 -56, I had to change the starter. I found that then the engine then wouldnt crank at all. It turned out that when  installed the mounting bolts, one was too long and was hard against the flywheel, preventing the engine from turning. Easy fix.

 

It is unlikely the lockup has anything to do with the clutch unless you really made an error with the throwout bearing.

 

I agree with you, getting the engine back in with the trans in the car was a real wiggle job. I had rebuilt the engine several years before the starter issue.

[pacrat]

a long time ago.i did mine,first undo the rear shakle and slide torque tube back and off to side,then drop trany,next seperate bellhosing in the car,now moter can exit,put back in get moter close to fire wall and put bell housing back back on from inside car.or take out the stearing box.

[project61]

Thanks to all who advised.  I pulled the engine again, sure that I had broken the pilot bearing.  Nope.  It was in place and still sound.  So, with the engine hanging on the crane; I applied some real torque to the flywheel, using the (Wait for it...) STARTER!  With 12V and goodness knows how many amps to it from a fresh battery; the motor did rotate.  Snug to be sure, but rotate in fact.  Sooo....  Back in it went.  This time the install was smoother.  Even the throw-out return spring wasn't too awful, working through the little window on the bellhousing.  Practice DOES help.  I have yet to rotate it in place (battery in vehicle is dead), and I have been called away; but I have hope that it will work properly. 

Once again, a Big 10-Q to all of you.  jc

[DonMicheletti]

Are the engine bearing clearances correct?

I got my '38 for $135. Reason? The previous "restorer" had never worked on a babbit bearing engine and he installed the mains and rods with no shims. He didn't check clearances. Naturally it wouldn't turn once he got it in the car. He had treated the bearings like modern ones where you can just slap them in.

Trying to start it, he towed the car with no luck - but he did manage to blow both the transmission and rear end. He gave up at that point.

[Larry Schramm]

I am in the process of fixing the clearances on a 1919 Buick that was put together wrong with too tight bearing clearances.  The engine was so tight that you could not even stand on the crank and turn over the engine.  It would start with the starter but am trying to determine if any problems were created.   I am plasti-gaging the bearings at least three times to be sure they are correct.  So far we can still turn over the engine easily with the crank.

An some of these people call themselves engine builders. 

Edited March 20, 2016 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[my31buick]

another thought. I found out that on these engines the fly wheel can be put on any way u want. Other engines I have worked on the flywheel can be put on only one way as the bolt holes do not align but one way. So,,, If you do not mark the flywheel with the crank you will have a tough time trying to time this engine because the timing marks are on the flywheel... Hope that helps. Also timing this thing was a tedious process for me.

 

[Larry Schramm]

33 minutes ago, my31buick said:

another thought. I found out that on these engines the fly wheel can be put on any way u want. Other engines I have worked on the flywheel can be put on only one way as the bolt holes do not align but one way. So,,, If you do not mark the flywheel with the crank you will have a tough time trying to time this engine because the timing marks are on the flywheel... Hope that helps. Also timing this thing was a tedious process for me.

 

Been there seen that

[DonMicheletti]

The flywheel / timing mark thing was carried on by Buick for many years. If you dont know about putting the flywheel on correctly, it is very easy to do wrong. It is a real PITA.