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1927/9 Renault Monasix parts wanted


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Hello Dr Data

Unfortunately the answer to both questions is NO. Yet again I have been assured that they will arrive today, Saturday here in Australia.

Somehow I will be very pleasantly surprised if they do! But more on that later.

 

Bernie  j.

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Posted (edited)

I suppose that it had to happen sometime. I think that I can now say with some certainity that I will never see either the "engine and gearbox" or my money again.

I had (mistakenly ?) believed that this  forum was for the interchange of ideas and information among "enthusiasts".

It now seems that it is also a happy hunting ground for cheats and confidence tricksters. If anyone reading this and living outside the USA all I can say is just be VERY CAREFUL of anyone offering to sell you anything.

If anyone reading this recognises the "Senders Name and address" I would  delighted to hear from them. In addition to "Kelvin" the main character in this little drama there was his so called son "Paul" and Paul's supposed married sister Karen 

 

I would love to hear some more of this delightful little family, to add to the drama "Poor old Kelvin" reportedly died a week or two ago at the said age of 89.  In  fact, looking back it appears that this whole family could almost be a comedy act  if it was not so serious.

 

Bernie Jacobson.

Having made one or two enquiries it seem as though poor old recently departed Kelvin's supposed address is in fact a "Beauty  Parlor" for grooming pet dogs!

 

 

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Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
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Hello Bernie,

I hope you are wrong!  I did a quick search on Phoenix International and it looks like they are operating under the name C.H. Robinson.  They have offices in Australia.  Maybe you could give the head office a call and provide the waybill number and they can help you out in confirming whether or not the shipment is there. https://www.chrobinson.com/en-us/contact-us/find-a-branch-office/?region=5

 

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you!

 

Frank

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Thank you Frank

Nothing is happening today (Sunday in Aust) but I have sent an email to CH Robinson at the Melbourne address. Meanwhile I am "beavering away" on the Renault.

My currrent project is making "posts' to support the headlamps. Regardless of the outcome of the engine and gearbox question, I can always find something positive to do.

 

Bj.

 

6509.

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
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Having been in  contact with C H Robinson (Australia) they are unable to help me. Now I am attempting to contact Phoenix Frt Services in the USA without very much luck.  See also Freight Waybill above.

 

Bernie j.

 

 

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Hey Bernie,

 

I located an email address in Phoenix and drafted up a request for help which attached the waybill.  If you are ok with that, I will cc you on the email and send it off.

 

Frank

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Thank you Frank, meanwhile I am still working away on the Renault. I have today ordered the Fabric and Carpet for the interior. I will now  talk to the Renault Clubs in England and France about parts needed to restore the engine and gear box that I already have. Pistons for the engine and some parts that are missing from the mechanical brake servo on the gearbox. 

Bj.

 

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icon.png.ab70b7f6b9fbb123eb752364f30a7e7f.png

Now  that this little delivery van has caught your attention?  It has every reason to look sad!  It was meant to be bringing me another Renault engine and gearbox that I had bought,  that is I already paid for, from the USA, there is only one problem, that motor and gearbox NEVER EXISTED!!!

Somewhere there is a very clever INTERNET SCAM Artist  rubbing his grubby hands together and having a quiet chuckle to himself. He has just got away with almost $2,000 of my hard earned money. And I have no one to blame but myself!  I have paid the price of thinking that everyone connected to the Old-car world are as honest as you and me.

Silly me!  But having said that all I can do is to send out a warning and I am not sure how you can do this BUT check and then CHECK AND THEN CHECK AGAIN before you send money away to anyone you do not already know personally.  Ask for detailed photographs of what ever it is that you want to buy. Even thenn do not do as I did and rush in and send off any money to a total stranger on the other side of the world. Like me all you are likely to recieve is, as we Aussies say, "Get a nasty kick in the guts!

 

And Happy Motoring!

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it's a sad story :( , there are crooks everywhere  :( .
One day I was looking for a few things and I found it, I asked the sellers for photos and then I looked on "google images", and there were the photos that the sellers had sent me.
It was a scam and the seller had sent me pictures he had found on the internet :( .
I hope for you that this will work out.
I wish you good luck and well done for the work you do
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Posted (edited)

There is no point in becoming angry, we are still very lucky, I have my lovely wife and four children, (hardly children any more) and our extended family. I still have my 1934 Lagonda Rapier and I still have the Renault project car. OK its progress  may be slowed a little but it will eventually be finished, The seats are now with the upholsterer. I have the carpet and material for the interior trim on order. I will still have to find all the parts needed for the coupling between the clutch and the gearbox. And I still have to find some parts for the brake servo, mounted onto the side of the gearbox. I may now paint the new headlamp mounts and the lamps rather than have them chrome plated but that can wait for a while.  But PLEASE no more crazy offers to sell me non existant stuff!

My next  task is to assemble the brakes and get the car back onto four wheels.

And NO! I don't need a "Gold Plated giggle pin" thank you.! 

 

Bernie j.

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)

Bernie,

 

It is painful to read that you have been scammed over the engine and transmission. As you say, though, it is not the end of the world.  I appreciate your optimism and doggedness with this project and I very much enjoy your progress posts.

 

While you do not need a "Gold plated giggle pin:, I can supply you with the special tools to deframitize the woblem shaft on your Renault, at a very reasonable price :)

 

Cheers!

Edited by DrData (see edit history)
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Thank you Dr Data

I am glad that we both speak the same language. I do appreciate your input . It is such a shame that we are all spread so widely around the world that  we never get to meet.

 

Bernie j  AKA oldcar.

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On further checking it appears that the real  Phoenix International Frt Company went out of  business two years ago!

 

Bj.

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Back to work!

Today I started re-assembling the brakes on the rear of the Renault.  I still have quite a bit to do, my aim is to have it standing on four wheels although eventually the rear axle assembly has to come out again when I have a suitable gearbox to install.  Mean-while it will be easier to move on four wheels. 

One more thing for my "to do list" I have to make four new brake cables. 

Eventually I will come to a point where I have run out of things to do. 

 

Bj.

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Posted (edited)

Before I can progress the replacing of the right hand side rear brakes BUT first I have to repair the outside end of the half shaft. It appears to have been struck heavily with a "blunt instrument" . I now need to straighten up the end and go over the thread with the correct size metric tap. First thing will be to buy the correct size tap. Fortunately Renault's preference for using Left Hand Thread for left side wheel retaining nuts was not extended to the hub retaining nuts at the end of the half shaft. Just finding the correct size tap may take some time. Pre-war Metrics sometimes vary from the Post war threads! (Even numbers)

This appears to be the only attempt to do any work on the car by one or other of the interim owners. I am just glad they did not do any more.

 

Any Bugatti owner can tell you all about Odd and Even number Metric threads. 

 

Bj.

 

 

 

 

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Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)

A week later and the new backing plates along with new bonded brake linings are fitted; all that is needed is a nut on the brake operating cam and the hub and brake drum can go on. The wheel bearing has been washed out and repacked with High-temperature WB Grease and new cork "oil seals" installed.

 

 

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Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)

 

 

 

 

 

DSCN6891.thumb.jpg.42325be6efaf416b10f2ddd4c6cfb4f2.jpgDSCN6893.thumb.jpg.0e3431324106f56a6739fdf0ab70cf2e.jpg

One small step at a time...........

I am now waiting to get the other half-shaft back from having the threaded end repaired so I can finish assembling the "other side" 

Meanwhile small details are still important. Wheel nuts are marked G and D indicating Gauche (Left) and Droite (Right).

The wheel retaining studs having a Left hand thread on the left side and a Right hand thread on the right side. 

In the 1920s Renault still took this precaution, the thinking of that time being that it may be possible for the wheel nuts to loosen with the rotation of the wheel. Using left hand thread wheel retaining nuts on the left side of the car was a precaution against this.

 

Bj.

 

 

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
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Bernie,

 

Great progress, especially since it seems one of the half shafts was struck, several times, by the proverbial "BFH"

 

Good thing you are also bilingual !

 

I don't recall from earlier, but do you have any engine/transmission pieces that could assist with your rebuild? 

 

Cheers!

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Thank you Dr Data

Looking back I started thois thread in October 2014. It is disappointing to me that the rebuild of the car has not progressed further.

To answer your question, Yes I have two motors and two gearbox (housings). The first motor  I bought from someone in New Zealand. this went to prove the general assumption that Kiwis are an ignorant lot. He made a mistake counting the con-rods as there were only five that came with the motor. I later found one end of the sixth hidden still in the piston, what happened to the other half is still a mystery.

By then I had joined the French Renault Freres (Club) and bought another engine in France. I was told by the club member who went and did a pre-purchase inspection on my behalf. That it looked good and that it had been "turned over".  

Silly me!  I thought that meant that the crankshaft had been rotated, indicating that the motor was "Free".  But No! the motor that had been outside for some considerable time without any spark plugs in it! It had been "rolled over" to allow some of the rusty water to drain out of it. It was rusted solid!  By combining parts from both motors I do have sufficient parts to build one complete motor. With the two gearboxes the story is something similar. The first a correct RY1 box, complete with most of the parts for the mechanical Brake Servo had only one problem, when I removed the lid some enterprising soul had thrown an old universal joint into the space that should have been full of gears! The second "box" has a "similar" case but no provision for the brake servo. The gears inside all look to be in excellent condition except the "reverse idler" which is deeply pitted with rust. I have yet to discover if these gears will go into the "box"  with the brake servo.. That is on my "to do" list and should be looked into sometime soon. Both cases have the correct provision for mounting onto the front of the torque tube. I am in the process of joining the English Renault Freres and possibly the French club too. I have been a member of both in the past. I also need to brush up on my "French" language skills.

Sebastian where do you live? Perhaps you could make some enquires to "Depanoto" for me? I will send you a "p-m".   For the benefit of the people who probably have never heard of "Depanoto", it is  a huge Spare's" organisation that dates back to the time when our cars were new. It is run by two ladies of a "certain age". Their knowledge of French car parts is  quite anazing .

 

Bj.

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congratulations on this great job ! :) 
There is no problem, I can contact them for you if you want ;) 
Send me the internet links of their site or a contact so that I can call them, and tell me what you need :) .
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Posted (edited)

First let me add my voice to caution you about Scammers. I have been "bitten" twice in the one week. The damage bill is now over $5,000 it can happen to you!

 

Now back to the real reason for this Thread. The Restoration of a 1929 (French) RENAULT Monastella RY1 two seater, Boat tailed roadster.

Among other things Renault took a novel approach to the arrangement of the clutch and gearbox. The clutch itself was a quite conventional single dry plate arrangement. From there, things became a little different. The gearbox was remotely mounted on the front of the torque tube. There is a cover over the actual clutch and drive shaft with a singel universal joint enclosed  inside the front (ball) mounting for the gearbox/drive shaft.  see also photograph.

This is then fully self explanatory!  You can drive the car with the floorboards removed and not get the cuff and/or the leg of your trousers caught.

Looking again at the photograph you can work on your Renault and not get your hands dirty!

 

Right now I am looking for a clutch/drive shaft cover.

Bj.

71100

 

682289059_RenaultClutchcoveretc.jpeg.6e01dcfdb7b1151c5235a7de2ff2a00b.jpeg

 

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
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Right now I am still reeling from the impact that "loosing" over $5,000  as a result of not one but TWO scams within days of  each other. This will make a serious hole in my "play" (restoration) funds. It certainly means that I will have to look very carefully at my spending on the Renault for the next two or there months and possibly longer. Don't be too surprised if work on this project slows almost to a stop.  Meanwhile I am tackling two or three little jobs that do not require little if any expenditure. Yesterday I made some progress with the front mudguard (fenders) support  brackets. I can continue working on those as I already have the necessary materials. I did have to refil both my Oxygen and Acetylene bottles so I could do some welding. I also have a half sheet of 1.6mm aluminium that I had saved for this work.  I will have to buy a couple of lengths of aluminium "Cresent mould" strip. Not a huge expenditure!

 

Bj.

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Continuing on; I have now made the front mudguard (fender) brackets and have done a trial using a piece of scrap/off cut, 1.2mm Aluminium to serve  as a trial.  I think that I can now cut up part of the sheet of 1.6 aluminium. With this  done I will need to buy 4 lengths of aluminioum "cresent mould" to finish and strengthen the edges. Next task is to "mentally" work out a satisfactory shape and length for the rear mudguards and to make the four support/brackets for these.  Please do not be too alarmed at the appearance of these Trial pieces, as explained, this is simply a piece of 1.2 (thiner) aluminium held in place by two pair of "vice grip" pliers, to give me a very rough idea of how big I need to make the final pieces.  Please do not waste your time looking for "drawings" as with 99% of my body etc work these are simply a "thought  process" relying purely of mental "pictures" to arrive  at the finished product .

Observant people will have already noted that I have written some dimensions  on my trial piece.

 

Please also note my "arc-welding" kit  taking up valuable floor space. I really should sell or give it away, it is so long since I last used it

 

 

Bj.

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Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
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Going back a little while, attached are two photographs albeit very similar, they show the Renault the day I took delivery of it. Anyone looking at these would know instinctively that this is a completely straight forward restoration that only needs dusting off and lick of paint here and there! 

I really do not know why it has taken so long. I  both photographs you can clearly see the Renault  "Diamond" in the brake pedal, or perhaps that is the clutch pedal. AND NO! I have not yet started to "tear my hair out!"

 

I thought that all the "proper enthusiasts" bought their cars this way?

 

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IMG_2456.thumb.JPG.3c1e4e2d8491f06bdfd0b488b929f4f9.JPG

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Now just a little bit later,  I collected the two seats from the (NEW*) upholsterer today. While not quite up to my usual standard they are not too bad. I will pull them out and photograph them provided the weather gods are smiling on me. There  is sufficient material for me to do the rest of the interior trim and I have matching carpet on order. Perhaps this is a little out of an ideal sequence but I find that it is better to do some of these jobs as the opportunity arises. In another three or six months time things may be very different!

Meanwhile work is still progressing.

* the man who had been doing most of my "Trimming" has hung up his apron, shut his door  and gone off to enjoy his retirement. A lucky fellow, I know of at least one person who will probably NEVER retire????    

I will just have to make him to complete the rest of the interior. At least then he will not be sneaking off to the "pub".

 

Bj.

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
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I think that I may have mentioned previously that I had been a victin of a scam being done by "someone in the USA" I have now heard from my Bank that there is probably no chance of recovering any of my money. There goes US$5,000. If you say it quickly it hardly hurts at all. What this probably means is, that I will be brush painting the Renault rather than having it professionally painted. Either that or I will just have to live a few more years in order to complete it.  ............?

 

Back to work!

 

Bj.

 

With luck that B.... in the USA will catch Co-vid 19 and die!

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17 hours ago, oldcar said:

 

 

With luck that B.... in the USA will catch Co-vid 19 and die!

 

Yup....should be a special place in hell for those types of people.

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Posted (edited)

DSCN6896.thumb.jpg.1fa3e581c84e19a07adcd8c70378b36a.jpgDSCN6861.thumb.jpg.27b0b177520e74db4047b5053d12b483.jpgDSCN6862.thumb.jpg.3ed47bd5d33e64f6dafd8f04d86fdd6c.jpg

 

 

I have now agreed to having the Renault gearbox rebuilt including freshly made reverse gears. I simply cannot sit in a darkened room crying over spilt milk.

I still have to find a way into the Renault archives in  order to obtain the drawings for the Brake Servo. I have joined the Renault Freres (Club) in England but I will probably have to join the French Club as well.

The big problem is that, with the French club they really expect you to speak/write impecable French. Sebastien-Buick can help  me with the language but I do not like to impose on people too much.

 

Back to work.

 

I have just added two more photographs. The first shows the end of the drive shaft and outer case of the torque tube.

The second shows the location of the servo where it mounts onto the front end of the torque tube. 

If I am unable to restore the Brake Servo to working order, I doubt if this would trouble anyone except me. If once the restoration is completed, I very much believe the absence of a working Brake Servo will be of any concern to anyone but myself.

On the law of averages, once completed and sold, the car will again become a STATIC part of someone's "Collection Antique and Obsolete Motor Cars". Whether the brakes work or not will not really be a problem.

The same goes to the gearbox and I really must question my own sanity, having just this morning committed my self to pay for the manufacturer of a NEW reverse and reverse idler gears as part of rebuilding the gearbox. While this being done all the ball and or roller bearings in the gearbox are also being replaced.

Can anyone suggest as to WHY? Can it be some early indication of SENILE DECAY?

 

 

 

Bernie j.

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)

The one ongoing nasty taste is that none of this would have been necessary IF my "purchase of the Renault engine and gearbox" had not been a scam.

While I have decided to "just get on with my life" it does not make it any easier.

Again just let this be a warning to everyone reading this.

 

Bernie j.

 

7240

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
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There is some satisfaction getting it back on four wheels!  

 

Still trying to get the TBird set up to fire the engine.  😁

 

 

WHCY1577[1].JPG

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And yes, despite being "locked down" work can still proceed on the Renault although now I have misplaced one pair of the rear shackle pins/bolts which has slowed down the fitting of the rear suspension. As soon as I WALK to the local "nut and bolt" shop to buy some temporary replacements, the original ones will probably turn up exactly where I put them so they would not get lost. This is not really critical as I will need to take the rear axle assembly out in order to refit the gearbox onto the front of the torque tube. 

Some jobs you just cannot hurry!  

 

Bj.

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Posted (edited)

Moving on, work continues to progress, some of the trims panels are ready to be fixed into place and the seats are waiting for the carpet to be installed before they are fitted. You may be able to see the carpet colour where it is also used on the outside backs of the seats. These will not be installed until after the body is finally painted. You should be able to guess now, what the paint colours will be ? 

You can just catch a glimpse of the timber dashboard where it is lying on the floor waiting for it to be fitted.

The dashboard cannot be fitted until after I take the windscreen frame, head-lamp rims and fittings, etc to be chrome plated.

Meanwhile the spare wheel colour should give you a clue.

 

Bj.

 

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Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)

 

 

Bj.

 

 

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Our trusty Lagonda Rapier, (top)  seen here in a French village while on holiday in 2009,  should be another clue.

The SS Jaguar Special that I built  some years ago is a subtle hint,  All you have to do is combine the two,  

  i.e. the Renault will be "two toned".

Not surprisingly the Lagonda has green wheels, seats and interior trim.   Some people just cannot help themselves!

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)

Another day and the Renault's interior trim continues to progress. The end of this week should see it finished. Once my Friend John Needham at "Oldcar Gearboxes"  has finished his rebuild of the gearbox, I can finish assembling the drive line. This will mean that the car can go back onto four wheels. I can then progress to finishing the motor's assembly and hopefully take it another step towards having it able to be started and running.

I cannot help wondering why I am doing all this? At least it is keeping my mind active and my hands working. My one complaint is that the days and weeks just go too quickly. This year is more than half way over and I still have so much to do.

One thing that may hold up progress is the Brake (mechanical) Servo. I still live in hope that the good people at Depanoto (France) will find one among the mountains of parts in their store.

 

Bj.

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
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