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1927/9 Renault Monasix parts wanted


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Going no-where looking back.

I introduced this subject back in 2014 and got no response then, Now that I am now starting over again working on "my" Renault the question has arrisen again.

Attached is a photograph of the Mechanical brake servo attached to the rear of my Renaults gearbox. Nowhere can I find any reference to this. Can anyone add any light to this ?

 

Bj.

DSCN6852.thumb.jpg.3ed91d4df2bf4074dddf3dd05bf763ed.jpg

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Indeed each piece is remarkable, it is well designed.
You may have answers if you put it in the "general discussion" category on the forum.
If you want I can try to get information in France :) 
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Hello Sebastien

Oh Boy!

I have just opened a can of worms....

Ihave taken the top of the gearbox in the car only to find it a total lash-up. Not a gear insight and where the gears should be, there is a "universal joint" making a direct drive through the "box "Who, How, Why" are just some of the questions that will need to be answered.

I used to have some good contacts through the Renault Freres (Club) in France. At this stage I am not sure if to join the English or The French branch of the CLUB

The French tend to be difficult if your command of their  language is not perfect.

I will try "touching base" with both clubs.

 

Bernie j.

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More I read the more I am learning. I now know that the mechanical Brake Servo driven off the output shaft in the gearbox was standard equipment on the slightly "Up-market" Monastella, but not on the"Bread and Butter" version: the Monasix. Whether this makes it any easier to source parts or not is open to conjecture. At least I now know where to look (perhaps?). I can only hope the nonsense modification to the "Monastella gearbox" is not terminal. Hopefully I can intergrate the internals from one box to the other. Only time will tell. This modification also casts doubts about the final drive ratio in the rear axle that came in the same parcel.   This also means that I may have to seek admittance to the Renault Frere's France.  Watch this space!

902479039_YS83751.jpeg.e4f25f9ff836bcba46200931c29e34de.jpeg

 

 

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Agree indeed, if you can't get answers, don't hesitate to ask me so that I ask in France :) .
I don't realize it because I'm French, but (apparently) the French language is one of the most difficult languages to learn and speak.
There is a lot of conjugation, .... Even we who are French sometimes make mistakes in writing.
French people can be difficult because they cannot understand what is written there, some will be understanding, but the French language is difficult to speak :( 
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Hello Sebastien

You really must think that I am a  rude and uncooth person. I apologise I had not realised that you are indeed French and living in France. 

We still live in hope of doing one more visit to your wonderful country.  You mentioned earlier that you had one or two Friends involved with "Renault Before the War"

I have now made contact again with the forum. Perhaps some of the members will remember me.  There would not have been many members from Australia. 

My email is  

 twooldlags@gmail.com

 

 

Thank you and please accept my apology for being so stupid.

 

Regards

 

Bernie Jacobson.

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After another productive day on the Renault.  I now have the rear axle, torque tube and gearbox out, I have removed the "universal joint" from where it was hiding inside the gearbox, removed the brake servo and dismantled it so I now know what is missing from it's internals. I think that at this juncture I will consult my good friend John Needham of "OLD CAR GEARBOXES" before I dismantle the other gearbox. I still need to establish what variations there are in the internals of the  servo and non servo boxes. If any? I need to source a drive pinion (gear) for the servo and the driven plate. Most of you reading this will not have any idea what I am talking about but at least I do.

 

Bj.

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On ‎5‎/‎30‎/‎2020 at 1:51 PM, oldcar said:

Hello Sebastien

You really must think that I am a  rude and uncooth person. I apologise I had not realised that you are indeed French and living in France. 

We still live in hope of doing one more visit to your wonderful country.  You mentioned earlier that you had one or two Friends involved with "Renault Before the War"

I have now made contact again with the forum. Perhaps some of the members will remember me.  There would not have been many members from Australia. 

My email is  

 twooldlags@gmail.com

 

 

Thank you and please accept my apology for being so stupid.

 

Regards

 

Bernie Jacobson.

 

There is no problem ;) , I ask and I will keep you informed if I can help you with your renault  :) 

 

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Posted (edited)

Thank you Sebastien

I do know the "les-renault-d-guerre" I was active on this forum previously when I first had my Renault some years ago but my lack of French was something of a handicap. I now have had a reply to my advert wanting to buy parts. I have been offered an engine and gearbox that I think I should buy.

 

Bernie j.

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)

Hello Sebastien

Thank you for your good wishes.

 

While the world keeps getting smaller the USA is still a BIG place, I am having the engine and gearbox air-freighted in the hope that it will avoid some of the strife that seems to be expanding no matter which way you look.

 

Bj

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)

All is revealed, while cleaning the rear axle assembly ready for painting I have discovered the build date and final drive gear ratio. 
It was built on 11-6-29 and the ratio is 8 to 52.  i.e. an impressive  6.5 : 1.   Ideal for climbing up alpine passes or ploughing fields.

 

Apart from anything else we now know that the car has another birthday. In just a few days time it will be  just 91 years old.

 

Happy birthday Renault Mona-stella.

 

Bj.

 

 

 

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Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
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Hello Sebastien

Almost as old as me, or at least as old as I feel sometimes after a day working on the Renault.

Right now I am busy scraping almost 100 years of gunk and dirt off the rear axle assembly. This prior to painting it. 

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Posted (edited)

Having looked at the work that you do Sebastien, the stuff that I do is nothing!   I am "just having fun, messing about with old cars"

But then that is what I have done all my life and what I enjoy doing, so I am not about to change.   At least my wife knows where I am and what I am doing!

It is too late now for me to change.   At least I am doing "something" and enjoying what I am doing.   It has to be better using my hands and my brain rather than sitting waiting to die in an "old folks home".   I jokingly say, "80 is the new 60!"  But then I know a lot of people die in their 60's, so I must be doing something the right! 

 

Don't worry,   I will say again, "I am not about to change!"

 

Bernie j. (9-11-1936)

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
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You are right, you have to enjoy life and do what you love :) 
Me if I win the lottery I would like to buy a lot of wrecks of American cars to restore them entirely  :wub: :wub:, and as a recent car I would like to buy a Dodge Challenger SRT Demon :wub: :) 
It would make a good car garage :) 
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Posted (edited)

Not my first choice but I guess it is just a matter of whatever turns you on. Having seen some of your  work all I can say is "Go for it".

I am not sure just what some of your French Countrymen think. But then they may not fully understand the need to be preserving a 90 year old Renault either. 

 

Bj.

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
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There are many French people who are passionate about cars, there are many clubs in France.
Yes there are enthusiasts in France who restore cars from the years 1900/1930, like all the other cars :) 
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Thank you Sebastian

My wife Helen and I have been going to France every five years for anything between one and three months for quite a long time now. We take the 1934 Lagonda by sea to England and then use it for our every day transport. We have driven around and across France a number of  times. We have taken part in a number of small, local club rallies in it. We have driven in it to LeMans and to other "Historic"  events.

 

Bj. 

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Hello Sebastien

I am sorry but as I am now approaching my 84th year, I think that our days of "Big Trips" are over. There have been groups of Citroen Traction Avant's come to Australia in recent years. Perhaps it is time for more people to come and explore our vast land. There is a huge amount to see and no "Wilde Beastes" to frighten you. All those big open spaces showing no roads on Maps of Australia are simply that, Big Open Spaces.

 

Bernie J.

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Australia is a beautiful country too, I have never been there but I could see reports on TV, and it is very beautiful ;) 
Is it true that there are a lot of kangaroos or is it just in one region ?
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There are lots of Kangaroos you can find them on Golf Courses and in open country. But having said that you do not find them in the towns and cities.  But I could show you a number within a twenty mile drive form our home. 

 

Bj

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Back to the Renault, I now have dismantled both sides of  the rear brakes, apart from the general lack of attention one brake shoe will need some more attention. Both the rear backing plates are badly rusted at the bottom and the one shoe is badly corroded. Having asked quite widely, unsuccessfully, about obtaining a replacement I think that it will be much easier to have it repaired. Since this photograph was taken I have removed all the old linings and given it a good cleaning, I could still use it as is but a good aluminium welder will fix it in a few minutes.

 

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BjDSCN6874.thumb.jpg.cba2e8edfb4adce9c990c625afcdefa1.jpg

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Indeed this parts is damaged and I do not think it is easy to find, let alone new.
The good solution will surely be to have it repaired as you say.
Good continuation :) 
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Cleaning almost 100 years of dirt and rust on the Renault parts is very good for the soul.

Anyone who whould like to try is very welcome. Just send me an email telling me when you would like to come.

I can be sure to have a pile of bits for you to "go to work on".

Right now I am just starting work on the rear axle assembly. I have a can of my favourite shade of green paint ready for you once you have got it all sparkling clean and free from rust, oil and dirt.

I have just given the first brake drum a coat of heat resistant black "engine" paint.  Just three to go.....

 

Bernie j.

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The rear axle is now all cleaned and waiting for the engine & gearbox from the USA. It is now with the Australian Customs who will no doubt tear the engine apart looking for a few strands of ASBESTOS that may be lurking in the middle of the head gasket.  I should get the remains delivered in the next week or two..

The gear on the front end of the drive shaft is to power the mechanical Brake Servo.... I will be having new brake backing plates "laser-cut" next week. and the brake shoes fitted with new "bonded linings". The bottom half of the original "backing plates" were badly rusted.

 

Bj.

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Posted (edited)

Today I have taken a sample rear brake backing plate to have two new ones Lazer cut. Then I can fit them to the axle before having the brake shoes relined.

BUT before I do that I still have take the front brake drums off and check if they need to be relined too.  The hand brake also operates on the same rear brakes, so in theory they should wear a little more than the front. Unlike many cars of the same period,  Renault did not have seperate shoes for the hand brakes.

Looking at the photograph will help you understand the need for new backing plates and why I chose to have new ones Lazer cut. The thought of getting all those holes in the right size,  position and shape was reason enough. Obviously the car had been standing with "damp" debris sitting in the bottom of the rear brakes for quite some time.. Fortunately the rear brake drums do not seem to have suffered to any extent. The 'cup' intended to capture any grease escaping from the bearing may need a little tidying up.

 

Back to work!

 

Bj.

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Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
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Well done for this great job, it takes a lot of time to clean and repair everything.
The rear axle painted green is very beautiful, it is like new ;) 
It's a good idea to redo this pieces with a lazer cutout, it's good work.
Bravo and good luck for the rest of the work :) .

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Thank you Sebastian

I chose to use Lazer cutting for anything requiring accuracy these days,  I find that either using a hand held drill or even my now considered antique Drill Press are liable to wander. Unfortunately most of my equipment is, as is their owner reaching the end of their useful life but having said that I am certainly not about to creep indoors in search of a comfortable chair or worse. One aspect of my increased age is that of impatience hence I tend to where possible use air mail or airfreight for anything coming from overseas.  Now I can only become frustrated ate the delays imposed by Government Departments such as the Australian Customs Service who have now added to their activities the search of items coming into my country for the now totally banned substance "Asbestos" this includes possible locations such as in the centre of Cylinder Head Gaskets and in Brake Linings. I am anxiously waiting for the Renault engine,now in transit (by Air freight) to see how much damage is done by a possibly over zealous "Inspector" wanting to check and possibly remove the offending items.

 

Bj.

 

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I have just sent another US$200.00 payment for customs clearance for the Renault Motor and gearbox, hopefully it will now be delivered although I will not be surprised if there are some more delays.

Someone said at some time in the past "Life was not meant to be easy." I could add to that "Money was not made to be saved, just for spending."

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I wish you to receive the engine and the gearbox as soon as possible, and that it is in good condition :) .
And I congratulate you for what you do on your renault at your age, it's impressive ! :) 
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Bernie,

 

Remarkable progress on the Renault.  The axle and torque tube look great...probably better than it looked coming out of the factory.  Have you had any success on repair to the brake shoes?  The drum looks a little gnarly. I hope you can get your drums relined, if needed. With my old TD, decent drums are as scarce as hen's teeth.  The other option is to convert to wire wheels which require new Alfin style brake drums which are readily available.  

 

I hope the motor and trans live up to expectations.

 

I agrre with you on the need for "fastest available shipping".  Here in the US, if you do not go that route, there is a 50-50 chance the POstal Service will lose your package.

 

Cheers!

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The crate with the engine and gearbox is due to be delivered tomorrow. Hopefully the gearbox and brake servo are OK as with the Renaults very individual arrangement the gearbox is mounted on the front end of the torque tube (enclosed drigve shaft)  This means the gearbox has to be attached before I install the back axle. I will need to check the gearbox before I can do this. I did have two gearboxes before I bought this one from the USA. One is from the smaller, 4 cylinder NN model, the other was the correct Monastella (RY1) gearbox but it has no internals and the brake servo which in mounted on one side was incomplete.

Now 91 years later gearbox parts are difficult to find, even in France! I consider that I was extremely lucky that this one in Mississippi, USA found me,  probably the last place I would have thought to look. As it has turned out I was even luckier that the owner had contacted me, arranged the sale and the shipping it to Australia only days before he died.

 

Bj.

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Now I have been using this forum for some years I am always interested in expanding my knowledge of the history and items of interest relating to the particular car that I am working on at the present time. For example I would be very interested to learn about the numbers of these French cars sold after WW1 and in the years up to 1930. 

 

Bj

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