Overland headless - stuck rings

[old buicks]

I did the unthinkable. I am restoring a 12 Overland with headless individual cyliners. I put new rings on the existing pistons and put the first cylinder on and upon rolling the engine over, the top ring expanded into the recess at the top of the cylinder. Only access is through the valve ports 1 3/4 inches in diameter. Anyone been there and done that? How do I get this thing back apart now???????????

[Guest]

Oh boy are you in a pickle! I had a 1923 Maxwell engine do this to me, only the engine was running at the time. It made quite a mess and took 4 months to fix. <BR>I think I would go in through the valve ports with dental like tools and break the top ring in pieces, remove the pieces and then the piston.<BR>Good luck<BR>Bill Wayman

[Guest]

Isit possible to go through thr valve ports with a modified right angle long nose to slip the ring off the top of the piston? Can you see the ring? If you can expand the ring the rest should be easy. If not I am out of ideas. Good luck. Gary

[Guest]

<P> DON'T WORRY BE HAPPY

[Guest]

You're a BIG HELP, Phil.

[D Binger]

Howard,<P>You know how the guys from PA are. <P>Dan

[Guest]

IF PLAN #2 OR #3 DOESN'T WORK.I WOULD TRY MAKING A NOOSE LIKE MINI RING COMPRESSOR FROM .032 MUSIC WIRE,WORKING THROUGH THE VALVE PLUG OPENINGS,LOOP IT AROUND THE TOP RING,COMPRESS THE TOP RING,AND REMOVE THE PISTON.SOUNDS SO SIMPLE DOESN'T IT. GOOOOD LUCK!!!!!

[Guest]

DAN. AT LEASE THE OYSTERS WE EAT HERE IN PA.COME FROM THE OCEAN,AND NOT FROM SOME UNFORTIONATE BULL WHO NOW MOOS WITH A HIGH SQUEEKY VOICE

[Guest]

THIS PROBLEM HAS MY INTEREST,I CAN SEE THIS HAPPENING TO ME.THE MINI RING COMPRESSER IN MY MINDS EYE, IS MADE FROM .032 MUSIC WIRE SO IT WILL SNAP BACK AFTER BEING INSERTED THROUGH THE HOLE,IS SIMILAR IN CONSTRUCTION TO THE POLE WITH WIRE LOOP, THE DOG CATCHERS USE TO RESTRAIN DOGS,[OR A BULL WITH A HIGH SQUEEKY VOICE ]FOR THE TUBE I WOULD USE A 6 INCH LONG PIECE OF STEEL BRAKE TUBING WHICH COULD BE FORMED TO FACILITATE WORKING THROUGH THE PORT PLUG HOLE.

[Guest SalG (Sal Grenci)]

Trainguy, Please type in a combination of upper and lower case. The all upper case is hard on the eyes. SalG

[ply33]

[begin feeble attempt at humor ]<BR>SalG:<P>The problem with using the lowercase when compositing is that you really have to mind your Ps and Qs when you break down the chase and put all the type back after printing the page. If you only use the uppercase you don't have the same clean up hassle.<P>Maybe if we all went to computers the we could drop the old printers terms and use "capital" and "minusule" to describe the letters we type.<BR>[end feeble attempt at humor ]<P>I shudder in horror when I regard "OLD Buicks" problem. I am glad I have never faced such a problem..... But I am a little confused: How did there happen to be a "recess at the top of the cylinder"? I would have thought that the cylinder bore would have originally been straight clear to the top. Any wear from the previous rings should have left a ridge not a recess.<P>Be that as it may, a couple of thoughts come to mind as last chance trys:<P><ul><BR>[*]If the piston can be rotated in the bore: Use 29 REO's dental picks to push part of the ring into its groove and to insert a shim between the ring and the cylinder wall. Rotate the piston to get another portion of the ring near the valve opening and do it again. With enough shims in place to act as a ring compressor maybe the piston would come out. (What the blazes is the emote icon for crossed fingers?)<BR>[*]It would seem that the piston would be more expendable than the cylinder. Perhaps pulling the piston out by main force (destroying the land above the top ring in the process) could be done without damaging the cylinder.<BR>[*]Or, if there is some location at the height of the ring where the cylinder casting is solid (no water jacket), then perhaps drilling a small hole would allow access for a pin to compress the ring and unlock the piston. The hole would then be welded up later.<BR>

<P>These all seem to have a low probability of success and the last two are pretty brutal. I'd probably spend a lot of time with TRAINGUY's suggestion of the piano wire noose and/or 29 REO's suggestion of breaking up the ring with dental tools before resorting to these.<P>Best of luck,<BR>Tod

[Guest]

Old Buicks. what model Overland are you working on?[sal please note lower case letters]

[Guest SalG (Sal Grenci)]

Trainguy, Thanks. SalG

[Jan Arnett]

Don't anyone laugh. When I had this problem I took the block to a dental supply who had a small handset with a drill bit and they were able to go through the valve and drill through the ring. I wouldn't want to be the next guy to has his teeth worked on but it solved my problem.<BR>Jan

[old buicks]

Thanks for all the help guys. I got it out but had to destroy the piston in the process. Evidently, someone before me put in pistons that were about .550 inch too tall. I took a long 1/4 inch drill bit and drilled off the top land on the piston, then was able to pull the piston out of the cylinder. For the buy who wondered why a recess and not a ridge, this is the way the old ones were made. On 99% of the headless cylinders there is about a 1/4 -3/8" recess at the top of the cylinder and you don't want to get your rings stuck there. TRUST ME!!!!!!!!!!!

[ply33]

Glad to hear you got it out without destroying anything that you couldn't replace.

[old buicks]

Hey Trainguy, I'm working on a Model 69 Overland. Bought just the rolling chassis and have already made a speedster body, (what there is of it)and have finished the fenders and was starting on the engine. Ordered correct? pistons from Egge last week and hoping for 3 week delivery.

[old buicks]

Hey Jan Arnett, I'm the guy who used write the repair column for Jeff Gillis in the Durant Standard before he passed away. <BR>Tom VM.

[Guest]

OLD BUICKS<BR>I ALSO HAVE A 1913 MODEL 69 OVERLAND,JUST RETURNED FROM THE RELIABILITY TOUR IN FREDRICK MD. HAD A GREAT TIME THE CAR RAN FLAWLESSLY[AS OVERLANDS USUALLY DO]MET MANY DF'ERS SHOT SOME BULL.WOULD LOVE TO MAKE A OVERLAND SPEEDSTER.SORRY FOR THE CAPS SAL BUT TO LAZZY TO RETYOE IT ,WILL TRY TO CLEAN UP MY ACT NEXT TIME.PHIL<P>------------------<BR>