MrEarl

Current Issues and Suggestions for a Better BCA

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Guest my3buicks

If I had a car that I didn't think would do well in judging I would still enter it in the judged class and then put do not judge on it. oh wait, that's how we did it for years and years.  And guess what, I would be just fine not getting a "token" because I choose to drive my Buick to a national meet.  These same people that are griping about this are the same ones that would say kids are awarded for to many things now a days, that they don't really have to earn anything, they just have to show up and they get a trophy for playing.  Let the joy of driving your Buick/old car and having people give you thumbs up on the highway be your reward. 

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So theoretically Mark you want to join all classes. Take my Reatta I just sold for example, being a pristine original that would place probably top in its class for judging and if I drove it. At the awards banquet I would get a driven award, a gold senior award, and archival award. I think there's a commercial that says that's not how this works, "that's not how any of this works".

Best thing that BCA could ever do would be get rid of the Driven class. It was former President Pat Brooks baby and was railroaded through under his jurisdiction. It was a hot button then and has been hot button ever since. If people need an award for driving there Buick to a show, they need to rethink the whole classic car owner idea.

 

 

so force the judges to judge my 77 electra that was a daily driver until 2012 when you delete the driven class?  the award isn't even needed for the driven claas its little more than small emblem.

Edited by ted sweet (see edit history)

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Guest my3buicks

No, if you know your car is not award worthy, it is very easy to write DO NOT JUDGE.  This is how the nationals worked for years with NO issues, no bitching or whining - oh please oh please give me something because I drove my car.  This whole mindset honestly sickens me in the old car hobby.  Drive them because you enjoy them or leave them home, sell them and join a knitting club.

Edited by my3buicks (see edit history)

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Ben, I like your post!  You definitely have the right mindset about the way this club SHOULD function, however, in my humble opinion it is headed in the wrong direction at a high rate of speed.  Bill, I will have to say that you raised a point that I will comment on.  But, before I do I will have to tell you that you do not qualify as a BOD member responding on the forum here because you are no longer sitting on the BOD.  I will stand on what I posted earlier - no BOD member will comment on here. You asked how I am being mistreated.  That isn't the word I would use to describe how the pre-war enthusiasts are being dealt with.  The word that comes to mind is DISRESPECTED.  How many times and how many people have to tell these people in charge that they are unhappy with the way that they are being dealt with?  My wife and I are restoring an old house and I simply do not have the time to devote to running a campaign to get elected to the BOD of the BCA.  Plus, I will not pay to run an ad to try and get elected.  I hope you understand now how I feel about that issue.  Now, we have Keith Bleakney on here saying that the fact that only one member on the board owning a pre-war car is a stupid thing to be fretting about.  Keith, you missed the point that was being made.  There is no one representing the pre-war enthusiasts here.  I think we all know how you feel about a driven class award.  Keith, you tell us that Pat Brooks was responsible for getting this pushed through the board and approved.  Since you have named the names as they say, I will name the names of those that I personally feel are responsible for this segregated parking on the show field debacle.  In South Bend it was your bosom buddy Mike Book and the one and only mr. oldfield.  You can take this whole mess and lay it right at their feet.  This writer thinks that it is extremely unfair for you to have your opinion and disregard anyone else for having their opinion of an issue that they feel is important to them.  Before anyone even thinks about saying this - I realize that I am treading on some very shaky ground here by saying what I am saying.  But, the political correctness crap keeps us all from saying exactly what we would really like to say to and about certain persons.  I just wish that someone, and I really do not care who, on The Buick Club of America

Board of Directors would come on here and publicly say WHY the parking of the cars on a national meet show field cannot be arranged in chronological order beginning with the oldest vehicle registered and run through the newest vehicle registered so that the viewing public can witness the evolution of the Buick Automobile from 1903 to the present.  In this writers opinion, if this was done, all of the whining, crying, peeing, and moaning would stop and the pre-war enthusiasts would start to feel a little bit like they were being accepted in this organization!  So, with all that being said, which one of the BOD is going to step up here and give us an HONEST answer?  This is my beef with this organization.  Bill, this is it EXACTLY why I feel the way I do about this group and what they are not doing to remedy the situation.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

All-Together Parking on The Show Field Advocate 

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Guest my3buicks

No Terry, you missed the point I was making, if there is only one prewar owner on the board, then do something about it, either run or back some other prewar owners to run. So honestly Terry, whose fault do you think it is that there is only one prewar car owner on the board? Is it a conspiracy across the entire membership of the BCA trying to keep prewar owners off the board?

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There are certainly other options for those who drive their Buicks and feel like their cars are not 'good enough' for an award in the 400 point judging. If it is over 25 years old, you can consider the Archival class. The Archival judging doesn't really care about the condition, just that it is a mostly non-modified Buick. I have always driven to the shows and rarely had a Buick I felt 'good enough' to win an award in the 400 point judging. In fact, I have never won an award at a National Meet. I put it in Display only. And I am very proud to see my Buick parked on the show field next to all of the other show winners. I respect the time and effort it takes to maintain and drive a show-winning Buick, but that's not always in my budget. Display only gives me the chance to participate with what I bring. I'm ok with that.

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I fully agree and practice what Roy stated: "I am very proud to see my Buick parked on the show field next to all of the other show winners."

I too have only entered my cars for Display Only.  But nobody in the driven, display only, or archival classes can be parked on the show field next to all of the other show cars with the current BCA National Meet parking policy. 

 

My previous question was "why does the BCA not allow driven class cars to be judged in other classes?" In other words...; why make this a separate class? I really don't see why someone couldn't drive their Buick to a meet, enter a 400 point judged class & also get recognition for driving their car to the meet.  As I have mentioned before, driving show cars is encouraged at Pebble Beach, so why not at BCA meets?

 

Still, we have no answer....

Edited by mark shaw (see edit history)
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Guest my3buicks

Mark, the answer is rather simple but not really a very good one.  That's how Pat wanted it set up and he pushed the agenda with a vengeance , he wanted an area to "showcase" the cars that were driven to the meet.  He had visions of a driven class gracing the lawn in front of the host hotel.  In his eyes it was a good thing, in reality we have learned it wasn't.  The quickest and easiest solution would be to abolish the Driven Class, put the cars all back together, and have a box to check off if you drove your Buick or trailered it.  Maybe the judges could have a "Goody" bag with driven medallions that could be passed out to all the good boys and girls that drove their Buicks as they judge down the line.  Wouldn't really take much extra time and everyone is once again happy. 

Edited by my3buicks (see edit history)

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Keith, I don't believe for a minute that there is a conspiracy to keep any pre-war member off the BOD.  Why would a person want to subject themselves to associating with the prevalent attitude of the rest of these board members.  There is an old saying that has been around for years that goes like this - Ignorance can be corrected by education, but stupidity is life long.  That old saying is really very appropriate in this whole situation we have before us.  Just sayin'

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

All-Together Parking on The Show Field Advocate

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 i HAVE WATCHED THIS RAGE ON FOR THREE YEARS.  Perhaps I was asleep at South Bend, but UNTIL judging day, I was told to park anywhere  .  I did. Came Sat morning, I moved it to the across the street lot for judging, and was told afterwards I could move back with the rest of the cars. I understood this to be for ease of judging. Whats the problem. ?  I did not make Portland.  In Springfield, all the '50s, maybe earlier, up to '53 Special  [last straight eight] were parked together. For awhile I was parked next to a BEAUTIFUL  Roadmaster Convert that came in a trailer. 

 Horrors!! But he did not seem to mind. Just made his look better.

 

  Can I say  "tempest in a teapot?".

 

  Ben

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The Springfield meet survey is on the eBugle page.  As always improvements can be made, but it seems that most were satisfied with all aspects of the meet including parking.   Looks like a success.  You can never satisfy everyone:  as an example, I know of one individual who wanted his driven class car parked separately and not mingled with show cars and would not even walk onto the show field.  He quit the club because of 'too much emphasis on judging'.  I don't miss him.

Willie 

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The conversation / debate about parking cars has been interesting to watch and listen to but it may be helpful if the two opposing camps acknowledge the difference between a car ‘show’ and a ‘judged meet’. Car shows such as cruise-ins, show and shines, good guys, etc. are much looser and freely structured events that have votes cast by participants and have no real reason to place cars in any particular order or grouping. A judged meet that has formal judging by teams of judges using a structured point system that is based on originality and condition do benefit from planned parking. For the parking critics that don’t see the need for this, it is helpful to understand the logistics of organizing, planning, administering, staffing, and executing the process of formal judging. Can you have a judged meet with unstructured parking? Absolutely, but it is logistically disorganized, more difficult and time consuming for the judging process. Before anyone posts a comment about not being significant or helpful having cars grouped together, if you have conducted a multiple day, formally judged event using a point system involving hundreds of cars, it should be clear that it is very helpful to have cars grouped in a logical and convenient manner to expedite the judging process. It is also helpful to have cars with previous legitimate provenance (BCA gold, silver, bronze, heritage or AACA junior, senior, etc) grouped together as a resource for owners and a reference for judges to observe regarding original details, finishes, etc. If you haven’t conducted an event of this size and complexity, this may not make much sense.

 

There seems to be finger pointing at the BCA board and references to individuals as the originators of this perceived unfriendly parking concept. Generally speaking, most large car organizations that conduct formal, structured judging meets using a point system based on originality, correctness and condition, park cars in logical groupings to aid in the process. The big difference between those organizations and the BCA is the amount of parking complaints that exists in the BCA.

 

There was an unfortunate parking situation that took place at a BCA national meet several years ago but that was not a planned slight to any member, marginalization of any group of cars, nor was it a conspiracy against anyone or any car(s). Could the organizers kept a closer eye on the venue before the event took place? Yes. I participated in a national meet at a very attractive venue and when we all showed up to place the cars on the judging field lawn, there was an enormous tent set up with a full symphony orchestra practicing at all hours of the day and night. Nobody was offended or upset we all just worked around it and enjoyed our time together. Things like this sometime just happen so everyone needs to let it go and get over it.

 

It is still confounding that very vocal members who want to emphasize the camaraderie and socializing aspect of the BCA by quoting bylaws feel that their ability to enjoy a meet is so dependent on where their car is parked. It seems like seeing old friends, getting to view hundreds of Buicks, and enjoying the sights and sounds of the surrounding area should more than make up for the spot that any particular car is parked in. No matter how you lay out a judging field, some cars are going to be parked farthest away from any perceived center of activity or away from a buddy on the field. Do they have a right to complain and not renew? Absolutely, but you don’t get martyr status by doing so. On the other hand if any member of any car club does not agree with the rules, policies, or procedures of an event as set forth by the organizers then they should not participate. If any car owner’s level of enjoyment is mainly based on where their car gets parked during a judged meet, I am reminded of the statement made by one of the founding members of one of the most demanding judging car organizations in the hobby: “Some people will complain if you crap ice cream” That used to sound cynical but tends to ring true over the years. Every member could potentially benefit by having as many members and cars as possible participating in all BCA events but only if everyone recognizes what the event is and what is required to participate.  

 

There is a way to voice complaints and suggestions but talking louder, using larger print or a bold typestyle, doesn’t add any more merit to an idea. Being a local chapter member and seeing some suggestions in writing and listening to certain members at events such as the membership meeting at the Portland, Oregon BCA national meet proves again that even when a member does have a valid point, idea or suggestion, it can get lost when the presentation leaves almost everything to be desired.

 

Just as in any other organization, change can be effected by joining in, becoming part of the process and striving to make changes within the existing structure. The easiest job in the world is being a critic but people find out when they actually do all the work involved with putting on a large judged meet that it is easier to be the clown that it is to run the circus. Find an organization and local chapter that puts a high priority on what you like to do and join it so there won’t be any need to complain about the type of activities or the way they are administered. Hopefully it is the BCA but if it isn’t, maybe some other organization will make for a happy and productive member.

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Ben,

 

If the BCA adopted what you outlined in Springfield, there would be very few parking issues. 

 

I have only suggested that some basic kind of chronological arrangement should be the policy until the day of judging.

 

I have only made suggestions and asked questions; the tempest in the BCA teapot has been created by members waiting for the BOD to take action.

 

Arland,

     My previous proposal to the BOD was to recognize that the Judged Car Show portion of the BCA National Meet only happens on the last day of the meet.  Therefore, parking for the rest of the meet need not be by judging class, and could be chronological or by era.  In fact, this would also help planning judged parking arrangements based on the actual number of cars present for each class.  I doubt that many members actually read the bylaws, but like it or not, the social aspects of being a club member & driving their cars are actually more important than winning trophies for many members.  Less than half of the cars at the last few meets were entered for formal judging.

      I did become part of the process as a founder and the only Director of the PreWar Division. I tried many times to make changes within the existing BCA structure in person with the national meet chairman & chief judge, and I have submitted multiple options in my written proposals to BOD members. The debate goes on only because of the absence of any official action by the leadership of the BCA. 

Edited by mark shaw (see edit history)

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Guest my3buicks

You had to be there throughout the process, of course you are getting his side and it smells like roses. He also wanted rather stringent guidelines as to what one could drive and be considered for the driven class ostracizing a good many owners. I could say lots more as well, There was no support at the time for the class, it got very ugly at the open board meetings and As I have mentioned was railroaded through quickly before all the discussions were complete.

Edited by my3buicks (see edit history)

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The old guy's post makes me wonder why the BCA does not allow driven class cars to be judged in other classes at their national meets.

 

"Competition Class:

A vehicle entered in the competition for the Buick National Driven Award may not be entered in any other award competition class at the National meet."

 

I can't possibly comment on every post of this recent topic, but I will give my $.02. Not the BODs, but my own.

 

As the new Driven Class Chairman, I have submitted to the Chief Judge an overview of the changes to the Driven Class that I would like to make.  Allowing Driven Class cars to participate in either 400 pt OR Archival is on that list. It will allow those high quality cars that are driven to the meet to receive an extra "badge of courage" for driving the car. This will not affect the awards ceremony as the Driven Class awards are distributed on the showfield.  We have also seen a LOT of confusion on the field, especially from first timers, regarding the judging process. Many "driven" cars have been moved to the 400 pt class if we felt they belonged there and we caught it prior to show day. We allowed both classes to be entered in Ames and it worked great. With integrated classes, there is no reason we can't do it every year.

 

We have a new Chief Judge. He worked with us in Springfield to include the Driven and Display cars in with the 400 pt on show day.  The Driven class judges don't mind walking the entire show field one bit in order to find our cars to certify.

 

Prior to show day, cars can park anywhere they want.  Show day belongs to the Chief Judge and the Meet Chief Judge. Boy, I really have to hold back from naming them Meet Head Judge. :)  Our SOP declares that they are responsible for the show field layout. Please continue to share your feelings regarding how you would like the field laid out, but someone has to have the final say and they are it. They have a job to do and I have to respect that they will get it done the best way they know how.   For every member who would love to have a fully integrated judging field, you have to realize that there is another member that wants everything separated into classes. As leadership of this Club, we have to make tough decisions and some of those decisions are going to make people unhappy. There is no way around that. That doesn't mean that your group is taken for granted or disrespected. That means that the other 7300 members have opinions too. We were elected to guide this Club and we do the best job we can in order to represent the membership. ALL the membership.

 

I am an active member in the Driven Class. I have 5 badges of courage on my '59 Invicta for successfully carrying my entire family cross-country to enjoy the BCA National Meet. If I hadn't destroyed my radiator a week prior to Danvers, forcing us to take the air conditioned Roadmaster Wagon, if would be 6! I am proud of those badges and don't appreciate them being derided as "participation awards" or a pat on the back for driving the car.   I enjoy driving my Buick and am proud to display those hard won awards. Yes, hard won....it was quite the experience to be exiting the freeway in Springfield and have my foot go to the floorboard as the brake fluid poured out of a ruptured line. No fun in a single M.C. car. Luckily, the parking brake got us to the hotel "safely".

 

In the recent past I have owned a 1940 Buick Special (as well as a 1922 Ford Model T). I also own a Reatta that my son drives daily. My wife prefers the '59, while my favorite is the '65 Wildcat because that was my first car. If I could afford one, I would own a new Buick Verano, but alas, I drive another GM stalwart, a 1996 Saturn SL1, as my daily driver.  I don't ever expect to own a car that could compete in the 400 pt class, but I love walking through those cars at the Meets as well.

I enjoy Buicks of ALL ages. I would love to see dozens of early Pre-ww1 cars at the Meets. The '30s and '40s tend to be well represented, but not like they were years ago. I especially enjoy watching everyone hoot and holler as they get rides in those old wagons and trucks.I myself enjoyed a ride in Pat and Pat's Great Race car in Springfield. What a HOOT!

Previously as a member of the BOD, and now as President, my goal has always been to represent the members of our Club. ALL the members. At times I have voted against my own personal preference because I felt that the membership wanted something different. I call it Servant Leadership.  Yes, I at times I even enjoy those Modifieds. I think they will be an important part of our show if we make it to California in 2018. I support ANYTHING that gets those Buicks out on the streets and driven!  I rarely see another Buick at a local show unless it belongs to one of our local members. That's why I rebooted the Cincinnati Chapter, so I could coax some of those Buicks out of the shadows and onto the streets.

 

 

Terry, I don't know you that well, but I think I could call Mark a friend.  I don't want either of you to leave the club and this is my personal plea for both of you to reconsider. Your voices are very important for the Pre-War Division and your input is valued. I consider you both integral parts of the Club and we would miss your knowledge and camaraderie.

 

I know the "non-judged" aspect of Allentown is another sore spot for many (can you imagine how many hours the awards show would be for a 1000 car event? UGH!), but I urge you to register and come enjoy the scenery. The cars are going to be lined up by decade throughout the entire display field. Many, many, many long hours of planning are going to have to take place to make that happen. We are nearly 1/4th of the way to our maximum of 1000 cars already. Many more hotels rooms have been booked than registered so far, so that number is going to climb quickly.

It will be a sight to behold and you won't want to miss it.  Also, there will be a special treat for anyone that brings a car! I for one, CAN'T WAIT!

 

As far as I'm concerned, I would like to see our mission statement changed to:

The Buick Club of America is a non-profit membership corporation dedicated to the preservation, restoration, and enjoyment of those vehicles built by the Buick Motor Division of General Motors Corporation.

 

Email is ALWAYS the best way to reach me. Feel free to reach out to myself and the other BOD and NMC members to make your voices heard. Their contact information is all included in the Bugle.   Please don't mistake a lack of action or change to mean that your concerns are not important or respected. 

It's late and I'm done rambling......got to get up tomorrow and drive my Wildcat while the sun is still shining and the skies are dry!

Edited by bhclark (see edit history)
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Brian,

    I agree with Ben; well said. 

 

Your post is most refreshing after waiting so long for someone on the BOD to report: "Prior to show day, cars can park anywhere they want.  Show day belongs to the Chief Judge and the Meet Chief Judge." 

 

This news is most encouraging.  Hopefully this will become SOP for all future meets.

 

Thank you!

Edited by mark shaw (see edit history)
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Brian, you proved me wrong and I am here to admit it.  This is definitely a starting point for the BOD to listen to the membership and hopefully a step in the right direction.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

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Guest my3buicks

I know it's kicking a dead horse but there is all the talk of melting pots, inclusion, people griping because they had fo park behind a fence, etc. and when it comes down to it nothing has changed. As Brian stated, it's a sore spot for many members with no judging at next years national. So for all you that are upset about how you have Felt like outcasts at past meets this meet is totally leaving out a large group of BCA members totally. Don't give me the BS of the logistics of judging 1000 cars, there would not have been 1000 cars judged, you could have set registration higher for cars that were to be judged which would have substancially cut that number down. The cold fact was someone didn't want judging at this meet and the group of BCA members that enjoy that aspect were slapped in the face and told sorry you are not wanted at this meet. So it's worse than being parked behind a fence, it's being told leave the cars you want/need judged at home, we are not going to service that group of BCA members. Maybe the next year they will say no Riviera's at this meet. The melting pot has a huge hole in it.

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seems pretty simple, enter a judging class not the driven class.  wasn't the driven class created to get cars that are drivers to national meets and increase car counts ?

 I enter my car in the driven class  because I don't want it judged since its driven 5k miles a yr and has items that are not correct.

I fully agree and practice what Roy stated: "I am very proud to see my Buick parked on the show field next to all of the other show winners."

I too have only entered my cars for Display Only.  But nobody in the driven, display only, or archival classes can be parked on the show field next to all of the other show cars with the current BCA National Meet parking policy. 

 

My previous question was "why does the BCA not allow driven class cars to be judged in other classes?" In other words...; why make this a separate class? I really don't see why someone couldn't drive their Buick to a meet, enter a 400 point judged class & also get recognition for driving their car to the meet.  As I have mentioned before, driving show cars is encouraged at Pebble Beach, so why not at BCA meets?

 

Still, we have no answer....

Edited by ted sweet (see edit history)

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