Same old coolant problem

[Guest Ralmon]

Is there a clear sign that a radiator is backed up or not flowing properly? Also Digger mentioned the inter cooler could be leaking. Where is that located on the engine? We are still trying to solve the mystery of the missing coolant. I also noticed that when the motor is running, there are bubbles in the coolant overflow tank and I can smell gas or exhaust or something in there. My mechanic still thinks the radiator is not flowing properly, but I don't want to spend the extra money to replace a radiator or water pump and find out the head gasket is blown or head is cracked. All the signs are there, the slight miss or rough idle that smooths out when driving. Car runs fine, drives fine, in the morning the coolant is gone with no signs of a leak. I don't mind putting a new head and gasket on, just trying to avoid all the extra costs with the trial and error things. Also, it has a new thermostat, new radiator cap and the fan cycles on and off properly. Thank you for any help, we seem to be dumbfounded by this automobile.

[Bill Reichert]

If the bubbles are there when you start it, it's not the radiator because the coolant is not hot yet. Therefore the pressure is coming from somewhere else. The intercooler has nothing to do with the coolant system. The heads don't usually crack but it may be warped and need resurfacing. have you pulled the plugs? A plug getting antifreeze usually has a white tip? When you take the head to get it checked, there is a steel bleed plug for the coolant right where the thermostat goes. You need to loosen that to bleed the head when it's reinstalled. I think the Mopar 005 or 006 (last numbers) is not available right now. Felpro is supposed to have corrected their previous mistakes on their current gasket.

The problem spot for the gasket was the rear corner on #1 cylinder.

Edited September 9, 2014 by Bill Reichert (see edit history)

[Guest StudeDude 01]

I agree with Bill re: the intercooler. Based on the experience I had with my '89, it's the head gasket. The missing coolant is going out the tailpipe but is the not heavy enough to cause a lot of noticeable smoke.

[Digger914]

Is there a clear sign that a radiator is backed up or not flowing properly? Also Digger mentioned the inter cooler could be leaking. Where is that located on the engine? We are still trying to solve the mystery of the missing coolant. I also noticed that when the motor is running, there are bubbles in the coolant overflow tank and I can smell gas or exhaust or something in there. My mechanic still thinks the radiator is not flowing properly, but I don't want to spend the extra money to replace a radiator or water pump and find out the head gasket is blown or head is cracked. All the signs are there, the slight miss or rough idle that smooths out when driving. Car runs fine, drives fine, in the morning the coolant is gone with no signs of a leak. I don't mind putting a new head and gasket on, just trying to avoid all the extra costs with the trial and error things. Also, it has a new thermostat, new radiator cap and the fan cycles on and off properly. Thank you for any help, we seem to be dumbfounded by this automobile.

I thought your mechanic tested for exhaust gas in coolant and if you can see bubbles in the puke tank, well, you shouldn't.

Head gasket problems either suck, or blow. When they suck, that's a leak on the intake side you get very clean plug tip and when they get worse you blow white steam out the tailpipe, up north we call this teakettling. When they blow, you get exhaust gas into the coolant, when your leak gets worse you see the bubbles in the puke pot, up north we call this percolating, up north we like to talk about things form the kitchen. I don't know why; but everyone seems to know exactly what you mean when you say it, even the young mechanics that have never seen a percolator coffee pot.

If you have bubbles, you have percolation and this is the mystery of your coolant loss. Your cylinders pump a hundred plus pounds of pressure several hundred times a minute, if you loose a pound or two you won't notice it with a compression test. Your radiator holds what's printed on the cap and when the coolant gets warm it expands, pressure builds, the cap releases hot coolant to the overflow, when things cool down coolant shrinks and suction pulls coolant from the overflow back into the system. All is well and good because what goes out does come back, unless of course it goes where it shouldn't or you push a little air into the system displacing some of that coolant and every bubble you see means that a couple of drops of coolant aren't where they should be and the puke pot only holds so much stuff, after that every bubble means coolant over the top. When things cool down your coolant takes up less space and what's in the overflow goes back into the system, if your over flow has over flowed you suck it dry and suck in air.

The inter cooler isn't as much a specific thing as much as it is a duct work system for cooling intake air. If your radiator is leaking in the right place you will suck all evidence of that leak into the intake and eventually send it out the tailpipe. You won't get pressure into the coolant system before your coolant has gotten warm enough to expand and a radiator leak will not push air into the puke pot. If you start a cold motor and you get pressure in the cooling system before it has a chance to get warm you have a symptom of a couple possibilities, you add in air bubbles and you have head gasket problem that blows.

[Guest Ralmon]

Thanks again for all the help. We did the block test again this morning, and the blue fluid turned yellow. My mechanic thinks clogged radiator caused head gasket failure. We will be replacing the radiator and installing a new head and gasket. Someone mentioned the Mopar head gasket set would be best. Where can I get these or what is a suitable replacement?

[Digger914]

Thanks again for all the help. We did the block test again this morning, and the blue fluid turned yellow. My mechanic thinks clogged radiator caused head gasket failure. We will be replacing the radiator and installing a new head and gasket. Someone mentioned the Mopar head gasket set would be best. Where can I get these or what is a suitable replacement?

In 86 I bought last years 85 Lebaron GTS Turbo 5 speed and in the 18 months and 30,000 miles I drove it, I had 3 head gaskets replaced under warranty. I've never seen a head gasket blown by a clogged radiator, but I'm not there to see it and if you can get good pics I would like to see. Far as I know these things blow the same place today as they did 20 years ago, though not quite as often after the boys at the factory added a couple more head bolts to help keep the top on when the turbo kicked in. I remember reading some place that back in the late 90's gasket construction also changed. Chrysler is the best place I can think of to buy Mopar, local parts store for anything else, easier to take back in case part isn't right part. Don't forget to get new head bolts, these things only torque right the first time, don't even think about reusing the old bolts on a turbo.

[Bill Reichert]

A new radiator never hurts. The head gasket at that corner of #1 cylinder was a weak spot. Your mechanic needs to know to seal the studs for the manifold because a couple go through to the water jacket in the head. Plus bleed the head when reinstalled as I mentioned. It's easier to just break the bolts that hold the exhaust pipe on and order new ones. It's a good time to get a new oil line for the turbo from Turbos Unleashed while it will be easy to replace. Call a Mopar dealer about the head gasket. It is listed in the Mopar Performance book. I don't know the whole number but the last numbers are 005 or 006. If he doesn't know about the MP performance catalog, call another dealer. If the head needs resurfacing, it a good time for a valve job. Hair line cracks between the valves are normal.

I had a gasket go out when on a trip. I rented a car and assumed the mechanics knew about sealing the studs. Not so. After renting a car for a week, I went back to pick up the car. Fifteen minutes later, I turned into a ranting maniac because of the steam coming from under the hood as I drove home!

Plus Diggers "Don't forget to get new head bolts, these things only torque right the first time, don't even think about reusing the old bolts on a turbo."

"I had 3 head gaskets replaced under warranty" They modified the head gaskets. They are good for about 60,000 miles.

Edited September 9, 2014 by Bill Reichert (see edit history)

[Hemi Dude]

A new radiator never hurts. The head gasket at that corner of #1 cylinder was a weak spot. Your mechanic needs to know to seal the studs for the manifold because a couple go through to the water jacket in the head. Plus bleed the head when reinstalled as I mentioned. It's easier to just break the bolts that hold the exhaust pipe on and order new ones. It's a good time to get a new oil line for the turbo from Turbos Unleashed while it will be easy to replace. Call a Mopar dealer about the head gasket. It is listed in the Mopar Performance book. I don't know the whole number but the last numbers are 005 or 006. If he doesn't know about the MP performance catalog, call another dealer. If the head needs resurfacing, it a good time for a valve job. Hair line cracks between the valves are normal.

I had a gasket go out when on a trip. I rented a car and assumed the mechanics knew about sealing the studs. Not so. After renting a car for a week, I went back to pick up the car. Fifteen minutes later, I turned into a ranting maniac because of the steam coming from under the hood as I drove home!

Plus Diggers "Don't forget to get new head bolts, these things only torque right the first time, don't even think about reusing the old bolts on a turbo."

"I had 3 head gaskets replaced under warranty" They modified the head gaskets. They are good for about 60,000 miles.

Bill is pretty much 'on it' The number for the cross drilled head is P4425006, I use to use the P4452005 head gasket on all regular 2.2 and 2.5 engines rather than the 5281064 gasket which is the stock Chrysler number. Correct also on installing new head bolts, this is a must! As for head gasket lasting about 60,000 miles, I have been on the 006 head gasket in my TC for at least 150,000 miles. I have found that the Mopar Performance gaskets hold up a lot longer. Let's see it it will last another trip to Florida and back to AZ + a run up the east coast to NJ.

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[Bill Reichert]

Bill is pretty much 'on it' The number for the cross drilled head is P4425006, I use to use the P4452005 head gasket on all regular 2.2 and 2.5 engines rather than the 5281064 gasket which is the stock Chrysler number. Correct also on installing new head bolts, this is a must! As for head gasket lasting about 60,000 miles, I have been on the 006 head gasket in my TC for at least 150,000 miles. I have found that the Mopar Performance gaskets hold up a lot longer. Let's see it it will last another trip to Florida and back to AZ + a run up the east coast to NJ.

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And they are not in stock anymore. Turbo-Mopar just started a group buy for them. Need to get at least 500 for a run........I signed up for 7.

[Guest Ralmon]

Bill, I don't understand what you mean when you said to seal the studs when replacing the head gasket. Could you explain that procedure and what would we seal them with? Will give full report when engine is back together. Thanks, Rick

[Bill Reichert]

Bill, I don't understand what you mean when you said to seal the studs when replacing the head gasket. Could you explain that procedure and what would we seal them with? Will give full report when engine is back together. Thanks, Rick

I think its the studs for the exhaust manifold. Cylinder 1 and maybe 2. If the head needs to be milled flat, the intake and exhaust needs to be removed. sorry about that, I always leave things out. some times the studs back out instead of the nut coming off the stud. the mechanic will know what to use.