1934 Mercedes 200 Cabriolet C (?)

[Guest coolcatz2]

I just bought this car that has been stored in the basement of a home since the early 60's. It is 100% original and almost 100% complete, can't find the keys! It even has the original cigar lighter! The car is rust free and in remarkable condition although it does not run and would take a complete restoration. Taking serious offers. Email me for photos

Cheers

Tom Z.

[1fun37]

Hwy, read the rules for posting, this is not eBay! Must have a price , location, etc.....see the sticky at the top of page!

[1927 S]

I am interested in your car. My contact information is, Brian Coffee 937-776-7202 cell, 937-643-2393 home Dayton Ohio, skindoccoffee@aol.com. Thank you for your time. Brian<!-- google_ad_section_end --><!-- google_ad_section_end --><!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[Guest coolcatz2]

Hwy, read the rules for posting, this is not eBay! Must have a price , location, etc.....see the sticky at the top of page!

Well then, help me out here. I would love to put a price on her but cannot find any recent sales history. I did find 2 restored cars, 1 sold for $180,000.00 in 2007 and there is 1 for sale at $230,000.00, other than that there is nothing. So what is a totally complete, non rusted away car worth? Yes it needs a total restoration, but everything is there and in easily restorable condition. This car is located near Youngstown, Ohio.

Cheers

Tom Z.

[alsancle]

Without pictures very hard to say. A full restoration on that car is 200k plus with a good shop. I'll guess around 50k. Are your comps for a 200 or a 230? Also, there is a big difference depending on exactly the body. Comparing to a 230n Cab A is apples and oranges.

[Guest coolcatz2]

Here it is, sorry just figured out how to post pictures, guess each photo is worth a 1,000 words! The one photo is from under the seat where the battery box is located and there are no holes in this area where it is usually the first to rust away.

[TG57Roadmaster]

TomZ.,

Thanks for posting pics. Figure a complete, correct restoration may cost anywhere from $75K to $200K depending on where its done (and who does it), so factor that in. But you know that already, if your website is any indication.

Good luck on finding the car a new home,

TG

Edited September 6, 2014 by TG57Roadmaster (see edit history)

[trimacar]

Yes, those pictures should help someone put a ballpark figure on the car. I feel comfortable doing WAG's (wild ass guesses) on most American cars, but the fern stuff is more a mystery to me....

[alsancle]

Get it running and you will do better than my original guess. That is a neat car. Even the small MB is expensive to restore with all that wood and leather.

[Guest coolcatz2]

Yes I am in the restoration business, but mostly British and Italian. All restoration prices are based on what you start with. If it's a rust bucket with many missing parts, you probably bought it cheap but the cost of rust repair and missing parts, especially pre-war anything (currently restoring a 1937 Jaguar SS100 2.5 and a 59 Talbot Lago chassis 001 out of only 6 produced so I know) can eat you alive. This car is not rusty and I believe the only thing missing are the keys, but we are still looking for them! I would love to restore this car for someone.

Cheers

Tom Z.

[TG57Roadmaster]

TomZ,

Contact the Mercedes Classic Center in Irvine, CA, with Motor & Chassis numbers to see if M-B can supply the car's original Data Card. I'm not sure the records go back that far, but it will have the key code(s), any options the car had, etc.

TG

[Guest coolcatz2]

I tried to contact them but they have not responded either on the phone or Email, sooo....

[alsancle]

The 200 series cars were built at Mannheim which was bombed to oblivion so no records. The 500k/540k/770 were built at Sindelfingen which did not get hit as hard so the records exist. You should still try as sometimes they have it anyways.

[Guest coolcatz2]

The 200 series cars were built at Mannheim which was bombed to oblivion so no records. The 500k/540k/770 were built at Sindelfingen which did not get hit as hard so the records exist. You should still try as sometimes they have it anyways.

From what I can see the original paint was a pale light green color (look on the rear trunk area) with a dark Khaki color interior. The top was replaced at one time but over 50 years ago would be my guess, headliner is original. As far as attempting to start an engine that has been sitting dormant that long I have learned from a bad experience that oil congeals over time and jams the oil pump. I tried to start an engine like that and twisted quite a few parts so now I just leave them sit. Take it out and rebuild it properly and there is no drama. From a restoration stand point this car would be a walk in the park.

Do we even know of how many were built versus how many are left? For instance I own a 1936 Italian built Fiat Balilla Spyder. According to the Fiat registry in Torino Italy, over 90,000 Fiats were built and all were destroyed in the war or melted down to make bullets except for less than 1%. My particular car was shipped to Ethiopia, escaped the war and now is 1 of only 4 survivors that are known and the only one in the US.

[RU22]

I have a factory bodied W21 sedan delivery on a long chassis. AND a Balilla three window coupe.

Agree about getting the Merc engine running. The 200 engine has cam bearings of split babbit and the whole mess is easily distorted if not clean and lubed. AND the oil pumps can freeze up too. The Fiat maybe faster than your Mercedes. I have seen at last two more 200's in the USA. Balillas …. there are a few.

The best thing you can do for the mechanicals is to find rebuild a W153 motor they are much stronger and look the same. Mercedes did replace many of the original engines before the war with W143 and W153 Units.

Does you car have a overdrive top gear? This helps them go along a little better.

Just a few thoughts.

[Guest coolcatz2]

The Fiat Balillas were manufactured in Italy, France and Czechoslovakia. My car is of Italian manufacture, there are a few in the US but of French manufacture which are not as rare.

The shifter on the Mercedes has a strange (to me) shift pattern on the knob.

How can you tell what engine is in it?

[RU22]

Balillas were also made in Germany and Poland ….. we have a NSU/Fiat 500 Wensberg Roadster

Mercedes blocks have a motor type in the casting. Wouldn't worry about the stamped numbers for now

Here's some Mercedes production numbers:

http://www.autogallery.org.ru/pmbtable.htm

Edited September 7, 2014 by RU22 (see edit history)

[Guest coolcatz2]

Cylinder head casting number 22F34 towards the right front and M21FB1A at left rear. Block number left side on bottom 27C35 could not find any other numbers, may be under manifolds?

[Bleach]

The M21 part of the above number refers to the engine model. A little about it here but it's Italian. http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_M21

Also a little write up about the W21 which is the model series of your car, in English. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_W21

[RU22]

W21 is a type 200 ……. M21 is a type 200 motor No surprises.

[Guest coolcatz2]

I am looking for the keys to this car. Does anybody have a photo of what they look like? This car also has a locking steering column which takes a different key than the ignition.

Does anybody want it? Sure hate to put it up on Ebay.

[Bleach]

I'd want it but I couldn't even come close to offering what it's worth.

[Guest coolcatz2]

I'm open for suggestion somewhere between $1 and $1,000,000

[Bleach]

I could only afford something between 1 and 9 with half the zeros on the high end right now. I'm sure someone would easily better any offer I could make.

[Guest 60electra225]

It may be a good idea to talk to Henry at Magno Restorations. He should be able to give you a reasonable idea of value and restoration cost.

http://www.magnorestorations.com/

[RU22]

The nail key from your Balilla might fit. In any case they are pretty simple.

As to the steering wheel lock you'll need to find a key blank then what I do is remove all the pins in the lock and just slide the key in.

The only W21 that has sold for large money is one of the roadsters

[Guest coolcatz2]

Just received this Email;

[TABLE=width: 100%]

<tbody>[TR]

[TD]171-classicparts@mbusa.com <171-classicparts@mbusa.com>[/TD]

[TD=align: right]Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 9:58 AM[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=colspan: 2]To: tomz@catzauto.com[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=colspan: 2][TABLE=width: 100%]

<tbody>[TR]

[TD]Model: Mercedes-Benz 200 (W 21)

VIN/Engine Number: 113946

Purchase Order Number: 20772

Destination of Delivery: Daimler-Benz Frankfurt branch

Date of Delivery: 7 November 1934

Body Number: 297002

Body Version: Cabriolet C

Kind regards, / Mit freundlichen Grüßen,

Mercedes-Benz Classic Center

Mercedes-Benz USA

[/TD]

[/TR]

</tbody>[/TABLE]

[/TD]

[/TR]

</tbody>[/TABLE]

[Guest coolcatz2]

Being in the restoration business I cannot see this restoration cost going beyond $80K. If the current sales market is roughly $200K to $225K is an as-is asking price of $70K out of the question? That would leave a potential profit of roughly $75K today and who knows what in a year from now.

[alsancle]

I don't think this car would bring 200k restored but maybe I'm wrong. Also, I think you are underestimating the restoration costs. That said you should advertise it at your asking price and see what happens. Good luck.

[Alex D.]

Since you are already in the restoration business, what is keeping you from restoring the car yourself? The hardest part is finding all the parts and your car is “almost 100% complete”.

[Guest coolcatz2]

Currently under restoration, 1959 Talbot Lago Coupe America, chassis 001 out of 6 produced, 3 Jaguar XK140's, 2 Jaguar XK120's, 8 Jaguar XKE's, 1 Jaguar SS100 2.5, 4 Aston Martin; V8 Cabriolet, DBS, DB 2/4 Mk lll and DB6. We are currently backlogged several years and do mainly British and Italian although we have restored a 1960 190SL which brought close to $200K, a 1970 Boss 302 Mustang that set a worlds record price of $209K and a 1960 Ferrari PF Cabriolet which just sold for $1.6M. Although we can restore Mercedes it's really not our forte, but it seems very basic and it is complete except for the keys! If someone is willing to purchase the car we can restore for the price quoted. I am willing to sell the car as-is and would consider interesting trades.

www.catzauto.com

[VintageRacingCar]

Tom

could you please let me know your price.

Please contact me to fnk@vintageracincar.com

Tks

Fred

[JACK M]

I'm open for suggestion somewhere between $1 and $1,000,000

I will open for a dollar then.

[auburnseeker]

I've got 2.50.

[Guest coolcatz2]

Fred;

Is your email correct? It came back to me 3 times.

[RU22]

You should tell people here that your asking US$70,000

[Guest coolcatz2]

When I quote a restoration for a customer I always let them know up front that the goal they have should be that when the project is complete it should at least be worth what you put into it. Therefore if the current market is $200 to $225K someone could put $130K to $150K into it and still be right side up. In my opinion this car would need nowhere near that amount to restore. I had a client that wanted a frame up restoration on a 1971 Oldsmobile Cutlas. I told him it would cost North of $65K to do what he wanted. He said OK. All said and done , after some upgrades he had $80K in the car. Crazy, right? That was 10 years ago and he enjoys the car every day in the summer and said it was the best money he ever spent on reliving his past in his first car. So it's not always about profit, for some people it is sentimental, some for the chase, some for something to get involved with then sell it when completed, some is simply greed, so there are many reasons why people are involved in this highly addictive hobby. This Mercedes I paid good money for and I am asking what I think is a reasonable asking price and a modest profit. I would really like to restore it for someone and would come down on the asking price but I am also open to interesting trades. The car is advertised on prewar car.com and someone posted this thread on Bring A Trailer.

[RU22]

The forum rules say you should include your price. That was my point.

[Guest coolcatz2]

Sorry, may asking price is $70,000.00 USD or best offer, interesting trades always considered.

[Guest coolcatz2]

I found the complete set of keys! BTW does anyone know about these cars that were built for military use? Someone said that since the original color is army green with a dark khaki interior it may have been built for government use.