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Hello Ivan

How nice to hear from you again.

If I was doing all this for profit I would have stopped even before I started 50 years ago. But the good news is that a very big van has just driven off having deposited an extremely heavy box on my drive. Less than a week ago it was sitting in my friend Jean-Paul's garden in South-eastern France. My reward is the number of new people I get to meet through each restoration. Like minded enthusiastic people from all around the world! That is worth far more to me than any profit I may gain could ever be.

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There are still just a few people around who do not count everything in terms of Dollars and Cents. I like to think that I am one of them. I may never have a lot of money but I sure have a lot of friends and even better I have a huge store of memories.

Bj.

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
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Probably not profitable prospect for you to restore and market, Bernie.

I agree with Bernie. I'm not in the old car hobby with the expectation of making money on a restoration. I'm in it for the fellowship of like minded people and the enjoyment of seeing the results of my work. I do not believe in simply throwing my wallet at the car. I have no experience with things like woodwork, bodywork, welding, painting, etc., but I am willing to accept the challenge of all of them. I fully expect that I wiil make mistakes (hopefully none of them expensive :)), but nothing ventured nothing gained. Restoring a car in Canada costs 30 to 50% more than in the US so that skews the value of a car anyway. I'm doing it for the enjoyment and to preserve a piece of history.

Terry

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I'm surprised it can cost that much more to restore a car in Canada. It's expensive enough in the US.

Things like the exchange on the Canadian dollar(82.7 cents US as of right now) and any applicable import duties/tarrifs push the price up. I recently purchased a timing chain tensioner from a fellow in Ohio. He was asking $125US for it. I offered $125 Cdn ($110US) which he accepted. Thats a $15 difference. Add shipping which costs more than in the US to that and costs start to add up.

Terry

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I agree with Bernie in that it's more about the journey. I for one have got to know a lot of people along the way, including Bernie, and I am very grateful for their friendship and advice.

As as far as costs go, and Bernie would agree with this, try paying for something shipped from France or the USA to Australia.......now that hurts !

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Hi Ian

In some ways you are right but I must be a supreme masochist. The excitement generated by the arrival of the delivery and the pleasure in unpacking the crate more than out weighs the pain. That and knowing that at last I can do something constructive on the Renault.

What did hurt was discovering the engine from NZ, which cost almost as much, was a total dud and basically only good for scrap. The cost of buying and shipping the engine from France was less than trying to make any sort of purse let alone a silk one out of that particular sow's ear. I guess the only satisfaction in that deal was knowing that I had made one rotten KIWI happy and helped him earn another 100 Bonus Points.

For those who do not know, there is a theory that Kiwis (People from New Zealand) earn 100 bonus points every time the manage to DUD an Aussie. For those who do not understand the term DUD it is a synonym for Cheat or Rob.

It is like them calling one brand of their Export Cheese "MAINLAND Cheese" implying that New Zealand is the "Main land" and Australia is the "Third Island".

Bj.

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Hi Ian

For those who do not know, there is a theory that Kiwis (People from New Zealand) earn 100 bonus points every time the manage to DUD an Aussie.

It is like them calling one brand of their Export Cheese "MAINLAND Cheese" implying that New Zealand is the "Main land" and Australia is the "Third Island".

Bj.

Sounds like another conspiracy theory to me! Most of us have a conscience like people everywhere.

Interesting sensitivity on the Mainland brand. Some here call the South Island the Mainland so I always assumed it originates from there. The SI is quite a bit larger in area than the north. In addition, we have a "third island" already, Stewart Island at the very south end of the South Island.

It is interesting that Aussies are always slagging off Kiwis. We are always slagging off Aussies! Esp. when they use devious tactics at cricket, like underarm bowling. ;) We are only a little place and are usually very pleased to beat the Aussies at some sport or other. This week it was Rugby League, a big upset. But then we got cleaned out at hockey. Ho hum. Too bad.

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Bernie, can hardly wait until you open that big box and show us what you have.

Thank You John

The box opened up after removing about 100 screws. Everythingwas really well packed in and secured The Dynastart which weighs over 20 kgs was packed down at the bottom of the box well strapped down. Everything there including all the loose nuts etc tied into a plastic bag and then taped up in a cardboard box. I have still to finish unpacking the engine as I have been busy as co-organiser of a VSCC One Day Trial (Competitive Tour). Once that is out of the way I can finish unpacking the motor and start stripping it down

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Bj

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I have now progressed to the point where I have the crank out and four of the six pistons. I may have  to sacrifice the two remaining ones but I still have them soaking in a mixture of engine oil and mineral turpentine. The good thing is that as both motors  are still standard bore and the pistons are all the same so I should end up with at least nine useable pistons. Even If the block does not clean up sufficiently by honeing the bores, I can bore them out and fit liners to bring it back to standard again and use six of the original pistons. The same goes with the valves I got a box full of secondhand valves with the NZ engine so should end up with 12 useable ones. The bottom end should clean up and just about go back as it is  as there is no perceptable wear on the crank pins or bearings but will know more once it is all cleaned up. The first thing is to get the last two pistons out. My first impression is that the motor has not done a great deal of work so fingers crossed. It is just a pity that it had been left for so long out in the open with four of the six spark plugs removed. I suppose that if everything went smoothly I would just get bored with it all.

 

Bj

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
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Wow! Talk about old dogs trying to learn new tricks can some one using words no more that three sylables please explain how to up-load photographs. None of my grand children are around right now and none of the symbols mean anything to me except the dreaded Facebook which I have avoided like the plague Not being a bird I have never learnt to twitter. Could this be the end of oldcar and the AACA Forum?

 

Bj.

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post-94860-0-83608100-1431761464_thumb.j Thank you Roger your explanation was perfect.

I really do not like it when people sneak up behind me. I really must be getting old.

I am giving away secrets too. I have four of those little tool boxes. one each for Metric. BSW/BSF and UN/SAE The fourth has things like the antique valve spring compressor that I use for side valves and small gear pullers etc. The Lagonda Rapier has its own tool bag that contains mainly BSF spanners plus special Rapier only tools, small spares and a selection of BFS nuts and bolts Mainly 5/16 inch.

 

Bj.

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
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You could be right Rodger but there are always my critics who will tell you I have never learnt from all/any of my mistakes. Changing the subject I have added on important item to my garage.

No not a two way inter-com but a smoke detector.

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Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
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Even more importantly I have just received a parcel from my good friend and fellow VSCC (UK) member Mike Tebbett. Quite remarkably it has taken less than a week for the parcel to travel from England to Australia and the lamps have arrived in prefect condition, complete with their very rare original glasses.

 

Bj.

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At last the Renault engine can move forward. Having totally dismantled both the NZ and the French engines I have discovered that while the later 1929 RY1 engines had larger crankpin diameter, an increase of 4mm from 40 to 44mm, the mainbearings remained the same size. The two engines have the same cylinder bore and the same gudgeon pin size. All this means that I can use the 1929 RY1 crankshaft and conrods in the earlier 1927 RY motor and finally some real progress can happen. Provided that the cylinder bores clean up with a simple hone, I can use the same pistons albeit with new piston rings. From the 24 Valves out of the two engines I should be able to make up a useable set of 12.

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With the "French" motor now fully dismantled the crank shows the quality of Renault's 1920s engineering.

The fully machined and balanced the four main bearing crank has 48mm mains and 44 mm big-ends. Oiling is fully presure fed to the mains with an ingenious system of fixed collars to collect the oil emerging from the sides of the main bearings, using centrifugal force to  transfer it to the big-ends. The large "dog" at the front provides  a direct link to the Dynastart. Six 10mm bolts locate the flywheel which incorporates the aluminium cooling fan and clutch. All quite generous proportions for a 1.5 Litre engine of the period.

 

Bj

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Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
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As I commented to my wife, Helen, yesterday I really cannot take either of the two Renault engines apart any further which means that I must start to re-assemble them soon. However there has been a short interuption to work on the RY1 while I replaced a cracked Aluminium casting, part of the Lagonda Rapier's brakes. I started the Rapiers "restoration" in 1978 and still find the occassional work to do on it. Those who have not found my "thread" on the Lagonda can visit http://forums.aaca.org/topic/183184-lagonda-rapiers/page-14#entry1373936

 

bj

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You may enjoy the humour in this e-mail I have just received from the good ladies at Depanoto. 

 

Pour les soupapes il faudra donner les dimensions

Pensez à être toujours précis dans vos demandes

 

Cela évite que nous perdions notre temps et cela facilitera le traitement de vos demandes

 

Rien n’est standard en Renault

 

 

As Frank Sinatra would have said "The KICKER is in the last line" "Nothing is standard in a Renault"

 

Bj.

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Hi Bernie - I still follow your work and enjoy your humor and honesty. I thought I'd try to help some others by plugging your blue text above into Google translate. It returns as:

 

for the valves it will give the dimensions
Always think has to be precise in your requests
this avoids that we were wasting our time and this will facilitate the processing of requests.

Nothing is standard Renault.

 

Keep plugging along. We are watching and rooting for your successes.

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Hello Chuck

Thank you for your interest. I have just yesterday purchased 12 new Valves, 6 exhaust and 6 inlet from a local supplier of NOS parts. These came at a fraction of Depanoto' quoted price even before adding the cost of postage. Strangely the valves that I required were a "standard" item from Depanoto's Web-site catalogue. So it seems that even their catalogued spares are not made to any given standard? Perhaps it is just a breakdown in the translation or communication.

 

Bj.

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
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I have now progressed to the point where I have the crank out and four of the six pistons. I may have  to sacrifice the two remaining ones but I still have them soaking in a mixture of engine oil and mineral turpentine. The good thing is that as both motors  are still standard bore and the pistons are all the same so I should end up with at least nine useable pistons. Even If the block does not clean up sufficiently by honeing the bores, I can bore them out and fit liners to bring it back to standard again and use six of the original pistons. The same goes with the valves I got a box full of secondhand valves with the NZ engine so should end up with 12 useable ones. The bottom end should clean up and just about go back as it is  as there is no perceptable wear on the crank pins or bearings but will know more once it is all cleaned up. The first thing is to get the last two pistons out. My first impression is that the motor has not done a great deal of work so fingers crossed. It is just a pity that it had been left for so long out in the open with four of the six spark plugs removed. I suppose that if everything went smoothly I would just get bored with it all.

 

Bj

 

Hi BJ,

I'm really enjoying your restoration. I'm new to the restoration hobby, but something that I learned and used in my, is the electrolysis. Don't force anything and just put it inside a tank and try the process (check youtube for it). You will be amaze how great it is. I used graphite rod instead or iron bars and the whole thing was very clean. If you have any question let me know. I will post some pictures tomorrow.

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Hello PEHerman

Thanks for the tip. I now have all six pistons out of the block, unfortunately on closer inspection there are a number of other problems with this one and I have decided to go back to the NZ block but to use the French crankshaft and conecting rods etc. The NZ motor is 1927 and while the main bearings are the same size, the later 1929 (French) crank has 4 mm larger big ends. Both motors have the same cylinder bore so I can use parts from both engines to build a composite 27/29 unit. Perhaps not the best practice but on past experience it is a huge waste of money and effort restoring vintage engines to better than new when all the cars are going to do is stand in a museum or a "Private Collection" and are unlikely to ever be driven more that a mile or two if at all. In the past I have spent between $30,000 and $40,000 on "top shelf" rebuilds on engines that have never been started again. I have decided that as long as the car can be driven without obliterating the countryside in oil smoke it will be OK. Having only recently learnt the meaning of "Caveat Emptor" the hard way, I may as well employ this nice legal term too.

 

If I get to finish this restoration it will probably be a miracle and possibly the last thing I do in this life.

Already I have spent more on this car than it ever will be worth and I still have not got to the stage of having a "rolling chassis"!

To anyone disagreeing with this philosophy, I would be delighted to receive your offers to take over the project.

 

Bj.

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
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On the subject of "oil smoke" looking at the pistons that came out of the "French" motor while the pistons have four rings there is no provision for an "oil control" ring. There are three rings above the gudgeon pin and one at the bottom of the skirt, there is a row of holes drilled just below the third ring.

 

Bj.

 

OOPS!

Having further cleaned out the ring groves I now have discovered that there is in fact provision for oil control rings it was just that the groves were completely caked with solidified gunk.

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It is not only the ring grooveds caked in gunk! I have finally managed to get the carburettor apart. It too shows all the signs of having led an out-door life. Possibly for some of the time under water. The sliding venturi which acts as the choke for cold starting is also caked solid with calcified aluminium and everything seems to be corroded. Whether it can be rescued or not is open to conjecture.........

 

Bj.

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My favourite among the various penetrating products is the Australian made INOX I have found it will work where others fail. Perhaps it is because of the one claim among the list of properties shown on the label that I have not seen on any of the similar products. No prizes but who can spot the extra benefit.

 

Bj.

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
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I see it will not dry out and go gummy. That would be useful. Many of these products (e.g. WD40) are a wax in a volatile solvent or carrier. It also contains no petrochemicals. Looks to be a good alternative to the old 1:1 ATF and acetone.

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Kosher or not Inox has helped considerably in dismantling the Renault Carburettor. I have not managed to take the lower brass section completely down to its component pieces. I am still working on the upper Aluminium half. The main problem is with the sliding venturi which acts to rechen the mixture to assist in cols starts. So far after two days alternative soaking and heating managed to move it about 1/8th of an inch so I guess that it is a case of just a little at a time. Due to the totally irreplacable nature of the carburretor I am having to work in virtual kid gloves.

 

Bj.

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Well! Now that I have finally managed to move the sliding section or perhaps I should have said the frozen section, I can now throw the lot in the bin!

I can now visulaise what has been going on over a number of years. The motor had been standing outside in the open with the spark-plugs removed. Every time it rained the cylinders filled with water then the water eventually overflowed through any valves that happened to be open. Where there was an inlet valve open the water drained down through the inlet mainfold and into the very convoluted, up-draft, carburettor welling up on top of the aluminium choke section. Left for several years like this the aluminium has corroded to a point where the internals or the carburettor had virtually welded themselves together. The internals are now at a stage where it is impossible to repair the damage done.

 

Back to square one! as the French would say, Merde!

 

Looking at the illustration; the section in the centre where the main jet protudes into the venturi was completely blocked with debris blocking the exit for any water so that over time it had welled up in the throat of the carb and presto corrosion started with disasterous results.

 

Bj.

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Guest BillP

Speaking of oil smoke, I recall a broadcast of the Indy 500 some years ago. One of our champion drivers was one of the Unser brothers, Bobby, who won the 500 a few times. After his retirement from active racing, he "commentated" on TV. As one of the leaders roared past, his co-host nervously exclaimed that there was a trail of smoke. Bobby scrutinized it and quickly announced the source: it was "water smoke", meaning a probable head gasket failure. This is a great phrase and has become part of my lexicon. Water Smoke. 

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I do not know about "water smoke" but in the meantime I have decided to put the carburettor problem on the back burner for the time being. I have plenty of other things crying out for my attention. If I stop looking something will come to me. I have any number of options and if I am ever going to finish this restoration I have to keep pushing it forward.

 

Bernie j.

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From an almost completely different perspective, I have just learnt from a very reliable source that the majority of cars to leave the Renault factory prior to 1932 were delivered as Right Hand Drive.

 

Bj.

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Finally, after much hesitation, I have decided where and how the engine should be installed in the chassis.  The exact location is dictated by only two requirements. Room for the Dynastart at the front while the rear of the engine must line up the front of the gearbox after leaving room for the fly wheel, clutch and short drive shaft (coupling). The replacement (second) front cross member is of doubtfull parentage and comes directly from the scrap pile. It is certainly "Vintage" and possibly French. After some very minor surgery it fits in nicely.

 

Bj

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Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
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