Jump to content

Recommended Posts

On Saturday I hired a pick-up truck for the day and made the 350 mile return journey to collect the final remains of the Renault. For those unfamiliar with 1920s Renaults attached is a photograph of the hood showing the generous sized louvres for cooling the rear mounted radiator. Considering the state of the the rest of the body-work this is in remarkably good condition with just a little rust along the botton edges. Remarkably the engine turns and appears to be in good condition but will still need to be stripped down and checked out throughly.

Bj.

post-51681-14314283276_thumb.jpg

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
Link to post
Share on other sites

Friday afternoon and a courrier's van pulled up into our drive way and the driver got out carring a cardboard carton. Inside some precious bits of metal, a 1926-9 Renault 6CV NN clutch consigned just on a week ago in South-Eastern France. Along with the clutch mechanism there was a SEV Magneto and two little front brake perrot shaft pivot points. A quick test showed the magneto was in fine form throwing a healthy spark. This afternoon has been spent repairing some of the sheet metal bits from the bulkhead and the associated throttle cross shaft and levers. It is amazing how far 90 year old dirt can penetrate into your hair, nose and ears.

post-51681-143142843664_thumb.jpg

Bj.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

It is amazing how much time can be spent cleaning little pieces and giving then a coat of paint Just to keep my mind on the job I have found this delightful little advertisement from the 1920s Hope you like it. As my "car" is a slightly longer wheelbase chassis it will be a slightly stretched 2/4 seater version.

Bj

.post-51681-143142862876_thumb.jpg

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

This week has been devoted in working on the front axle and suspension. In doing so I made another discovery. It is impossible that the front axle and the two springs have ever been put together before! Meaning that they simply cannot have been originally fitted to the same car. Before I could bolt them together I had to enlargen the holes in the spring pads on the axle to accept the spring centre bolts.

Bj

Link to post
Share on other sites
Bernie, do you have the fenders? They look like they are a fairly complex shape, and long too. Keep the posts coming. We are all interested.

Thank you John,

we are having a short pre Christmas break right now

December, January and February are our Summer months.

You can catch up with our trip in France and the Uk on my Lagonda Rapier thread under Britishcars.

Best wishes for Christmas and the New Year.

Bj.

Link to post
Share on other sites

First things first. Starting at the front and working back, I now have the front axle mounted on the springs and have started to put the front brakes together. While my relationship with the Renault could at times be describes as a love-hate affair the further I go, the more my admiration for the engineers working with Louis Renault grows. For instance the contact between the ends of the brake shoes and the operating cam more often than not with 1920s cars is a sliding joint. Not so with the Renault, Louis' engineers knowing a little about these things mounted a generous sized roller or perhaps more correctly given its size, a wheel in the end of each shoe.These together with the cam are made from some incredably hard steel and despite their age (90/100 years) there is absolutely no sign of wear any where.

Bj.

post-51681-143142906951_thumb.jpg

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

It is not that I am not doing anything that I am not doing updates it is just that it is all boring stuff and there is enought of that already. I am also spending a great deal of time searching the French RAG forum looking for more information albeit all in French.

I have now been quoted between $2,500 and $3,000 to re-wind and rebuild the Paris Rhone Dynastart. I can probably buy a secondhand one in Europe for less but who is to say that it too is not going to require a rebuild even before it goes onto the car.

I can probably buy a complete car in France for not much more but I really do not want another Renault.

Bj.

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

Finally I have been able to discover exactly what I have or at least what the remains of the saloon body came from. It is apparently a 1929 RY1 Monasix. Quite by chance I discovered the secret of the little diamond shaped Renault plate on the dash. This was the one remaining ID plate that the vandals who had done a very thorough job of removing anything of interest or value from the car had been unable to lever off. As you will readily appreciate this comes in two parts with the details cleaverly concealed until you slide the cover off. Because it had been damaged in the attempt to lever it off the dash it was virtually impossible to see the details until after I had undone the nuts from behind the dash and straighened it out again. The RY1 was the last of the Renaults with the twin radiators mounted on each side and at the rear of the engine. After 1930 all Renaults had their radiators in the conventional position at the front of the car. That is until the 1950s Rear engined cars. This too is the reason why the pre 1930 Renaults had the so called "coal scuttle" hoods with louvers towards the rear on each side. Cooling was aided by a large fan cast into the flywheel drawing the air in through the side mounded radiators and expelling it out under the car.

Bj.

post-51681-143142951287_thumb.jpg

post-51681-1431429513_thumb.jpg

post-51681-143142951306_thumb.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Roger

Good to hear from you.

Unfortunately Helen is usually too busy to help, I make do with my own meagre French and the help of "Google Translate". One step forward is the purchase of a dismantled Monasix engine (or most of one) from a Renault enthusiast in New Zealand.

post-51681-143142958866_thumb.jpg

Bj.

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
Link to post
Share on other sites

Roger, You are quite correct about the Google translations. I usually try to run them back into English so I can correct some of the mistakes. As you are probably aware the French are not very forgiving and generally they do not approve people making mistakes in their language.

At least some appreciate that I at least try.

It makes restoring a total basket case difficult when they have most of the world's supply of Renault spares tied up. Slowly bit by bit I will get there.

Bernie j.

Link to post
Share on other sites
As you are probably aware the French are not very forgiving and generally they do not approve people making mistakes in their language.

Bernie j.

This is unfortunately the reality but they should be more tolerant. First because only a few can speak or write a foreign language and second because, when you read some comments in French forums, they cannot even write properly their own language.

Link to post
Share on other sites
This is unfortunately the reality but they should be more tolerant. First because only a few can speak or write a foreign language and second because, when you read some comments in French forums, they cannot even write properly their own language.

I agree with Roger. When someone is struggling to speak to you in your own language, you should be patient, courteous and accept the effort. If you need help translating comething Bernie, I could help you. But even my Canadian French might upset them...:cool:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Fossoyeur

What a pleasant surprise to see you here. A very different Forum from the R.A.G. As you can see I cast my net widely but unfortunate for me the fishing has been poor lately. As you must be aware I have not had a great deal of luck looking for parts for my little Renault. At times I do really do dispair. One of my problems is that I have always believed that in motorcars as in fish, the little ones are sweeter.

Bernie j.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking at the Renault d'Avant Guerre (Renault before the War) Forum it tells me that out of some 14780 RY Monasix cars produced only 104 or 105 counting mine have survived. Slightly less than ONE PERCENT, surely one of the worst survilal rates of any volume produced pre-1930 car! No wonder I am having trouble finding parts, especially in Australia where the number of cars sold new could probably have been counted on the fingers of one hand. Strange and unconvential they may have been but that can only be part of the story. I wonder how they fared in the USA, is there anyone who owns a 1927-30 Renault RY Monasix reading this?

Bj.

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
Link to post
Share on other sites

This is how the oldtimer world goes. About 50% of all the Rolls-Royce cars produced are still with us today. On the other side, the rate of prewar Renaults surviving is near the 1% you just mentioned.

I don't think there is any "rational only" explanation to this.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't worry Terry,

The slience in the US is only marginally less than that in the UK, Australia or even France. After almost six months of bombarding the airwaves I have got pretty much the same response almost everywhere I look. Perhaps I need to change the brand of toothpaste or de-odorant I use. Only in France I do manage to get some response as my friend "Fossoyeur" will confirm. If you are wondering about that name, all you need to do is to type it into Google Translate (French to English). I am not going to tell you, you will have to find out for yourselves.

Ssssh!

Bj.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Me again.

By contrast my other car, the 1934 Lagonda Rapier with a total production of less than 400 probably has the best survival rate of all single model cars made in the 1930s. Also by contrast it is a technically sophisticated 1100cc four cylinder twin overhead cam engine designed to rev to 6,000 rpm. Some time soon the Rapier's odometer will register 100,000 miles since I restored it in 1979.

Bj.

post-51681-1431429634_thumb.jpg

Now back to the Renault........

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
Link to post
Share on other sites
Only in France I do manage to get some response as my friend "Fossoyeur" will confirm.

French "Fossoyeur" would translate to "Gravedigger".

I selected this pseudo some years ago when I needed one, as a tribute to Chester Himes' "The Five Cornered Square" and its character Gravedigger Jones :)

Link to post
Share on other sites
French "Fossoyeur" would translate to "Gravedigger".

I selected this pseudo some years ago when I needed one, as a tribute to Chester Himes' "The Five Cornered Square" and its character Gravedigger Jones :)

I was going to ask how well do you sharpen your shovels. ;)

I do a lot of shoveling myself, but it isn't soil.

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcREZnLE7N7y2_lpYq6JHbDfKcMz45M3D8b3581Nb5ZrNulMrTGOPg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Terry

Here I stand to be corrected but during the late 1920s there was considerable interchange or sharing of components. Particularly between the two smaller Renault models NN1/2 and RY-RY1. The Chassis side rails, springs, front axle, brakes, gearbox, dynastart and much of the body work and hardware, lights, instruments & etc. In theory I could have just as easily restored my car as a four cylinder 950cc, 6CV NN2. This would have ended up as an even more underpowered and breathless little car. While I am interested to some degree in "originallity" I believe that the excessive weight imposed on these little cars was to no small degree responsible for their early demise. As an example; I have just weighed the single piece of steel pressing that makes up the bulkhead or fire wall. It weighs no less than 16 pounds! It will be replaced by a similar sized piece of Aluminium sheet weighing considerably less and once painted and largely covered, will be indistinguishable from the original. As in the past, not everyone will either like or even approve of my work. All I can say is that in my own way I am saving a piece of history! While I will not pretend for one moment that it is original, the mechanical components will be exactly as those that left the factory in 1929. The car will NOT be a "hot-rod" but it will be as it could well have been, if built by any one of a number of specialist coachworks in the period. Above all it will be DRIVABLE and FUN to drive. Finally as our Muslim friends are wont to say "God Willing" I will enjoy driving it. It will NOT be equipped with special tiedown loops for securing it in a trailer. On completion, it is my intention to take it back to France and to drive it in the same way that we drive the 1934 Lagonda; touring and visiting friends. Unless I am mistaken, that was one of the original purposes of our cars. I doubt that anyone buying a car new in 1929, bought it for the expressed purpose of placing it in a "collection" or towing it around the countryside in a trailer to exhibit in 'shows".

Good grief!

Bernie j.

Bonjour Fossoyeur

Je apprécierais vos commentaires re ci-dessus.

Bj.

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
Link to post
Share on other sites

"It never rains but it pours" Is one of those old Australian expressions.

I have only just paid for the New Zealand motor and it has yet to arrive in Australia when I receive information of another, far more complete motor advertised on the French LeBoncoin website. A simple translation is "the Good Corner", ie where you are likely to find all sorts of treasure. The main problem is that it is very difficult for people living outside France to shine a light into the more dusty recesses of this corner but I am extremely fortunate in having a small group of French, Vintage Renault Enthusiasts (Renault d'Avant Guerre) who are prepared to make some enquiries for me. Anybody interested in the bewildering array of Veteran, Vintage and Classic Renaults it is worth looking at www.les-renault-d-avant-guerre.com/.

Bj.

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
Link to post
Share on other sites

The more observant among you will have noticed that I have corrected the title to this thread. ( Thank you Peter G.) After groping about in the dark for some months I have finaly been able to establish the correct identy of my Renault. This has come just in time to save me from a very expensive mistake. Along with the two pick-up truck loads of "stuff" I got as the "makings" of the car I have two (four pieces each) radiators. Having just found the two little brass plates, one on each header tank, that fortunately the Brass plate collectors (vandals) did not find. I now know that the smaller one which I had thought of having rebuilt is dated 1925 the other slightly larger is dated 1927. Quite simply the 1925 is the wrong one as the six cylinder engine was not introduced until 1927. A lucky escape as the correct one is in relatively good order and should only require a good flushing while I was looking at replacing both cores (one each side) on the earlier 4 Cylinder Radiator.

post-51681-143142976238_thumb.jpg.

post-51681-143142976243_thumb.jpg

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
Link to post
Share on other sites
Hello Terry

Here I stand to be corrected but during the late 1920s there was considerable interchange or sharing of components. Particularly between the two smaller Renault models NN1/2 and RY-RY1. The Chassis side rails, springs, front axle, brakes, gearbox, dynastart and much of the body work and hardware, lights, instruments & etc. In theory I could have just as easily restored my car as a four cylinder 950cc, 6CV NN2. This would have ended up as an even more underpowered and breathless little car. While I am interested to some degree in "originallity" I believe that the excessive weight imposed on these little cars was to no small degree responsible for their early demise. As an example; I have just weighed the single piece of steel pressing that makes up the bulkhead or fire wall. It weighs no less than 16 pounds! It will be replaced by a similar sized piece of Aluminium sheet weighing considerably less and once painted and largely covered, will be indistinguishable from the original. As in the past, not everyone will either like or even approve of my work. All I can say is that in my own way I am saving a piece of history! While I will not pretend for one moment that it is original, the mechanical components will be exactly as those that left the factory in 1929. The car will NOT be a "hot-rod" but it will be as it could well have been, if built by any one of a number of specialist coachworks in the period. Above all it will be DRIVABLE and FUN to drive. Finally as our Muslim friends are wont to say "God Willing" I will enjoy driving it. It will NOT be equipped with special tiedown loops for securing it in a trailer. On completion, it is my intention to take it back to France and to drive it in the same way that we drive the 1934 Lagonda; touring and visiting friends. Unless I am mistaken, that was one of the original purposes of our cars. I doubt that anyone buying a car new in 1929, bought it for the expressed purpose of placing it in a "collection" or towing it around the countryside in a trailer to exhibit in 'shows".

Good grief!

Bernie j.

Bonjour Fossoyeur

Je apprécierais vos commentaires re ci-dessus.

Bj.

Hello, Bernie,

what would you like me to comment on ?

regarding NN vs. Monasix, the Monasix actually has the same chassis like the latest NN (only small differences show that your chassis is from a Monasix), the same engine (just 2 cylinders more, same bore and displacement). So when in 1929 Louis Renault decided to produce 6 cylinder engines only, the NN was removed from the catalog.

The smooth and silent Monasix engine does not have too much power, therefore if you like your car to be driveable on today's roads it might be a good idea to make it light. Last but not least, the car you are rebuilding did not have a body of its own anymore ; in such case it is a "sound" décision to chose a kind of body you like.

Now I'm delighted with the idea that you will let us know the details of your project, one step after the other.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Bonjour Fosoyeur

Thank you for your comment. I wil continue to post on Renault d'Avant Guerre. I really appreciate all the assistance and guidance you have shown.

I believe that without stressing the engine it can be persuaded to give a little more, along with some reduction in weight and perhaps a slightly taller back axle ratio it will make quite a pleasant touring car, perhaps not in the Alps but around Normandy, Brittany, the Atlantic Coast, the Medoc, Bordeaux, then on through much of Central France, Beaujolais, Burgundy and Champagne.

Merci beaucoup.

Bj.

post-51681-14314297745_thumb.jpg

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
Link to post
Share on other sites

After some confusion with the NZ Customs the Monasix engine should arrive on Monday, also due to arrive at the same time are the five new 18 inch rims to be fitted to the wheels. The engine is going to need some considerable work and I am aware that it is missing a couple of parts. Hopefuly Fossoyeur and his friends on the R.A.G.Forum will be able to assist me in finding these.

Bj.

Link to post
Share on other sites
The engine is going to need some considerable work and I am aware that it is missing a couple of parts.

Bj.

post-51681-143142988469_thumb.jpg

It finally arrived late yesterday afternoon and was quickly unpacked, What an understatement. First thing is to get a quote on a set of 6 new con-rods, then sort out some bigger inlet valves and a cam re-grind etc etc. With everything pulled apart I really will not know what is missing until I start to put it together.

All good fun!

Bj.

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
Link to post
Share on other sites

G'day Burnie,

I knew I'd find you here.....I must have kept missing your posts.

Ive back read all the posts and will continue to follow your excellent progress.

Yep Im still plodding along with my car, its about 90% done now! almost ready for the interior.

in a lot of your posts you are having trouble emailing the French in relation to some of your parts.

you may recall my cousin, who was born in Melbourne, lives in Boersch in the north east of France.

She was staying with us in January. She is also on the local council too.

If you got stuck I'm sure I could email her and in turn she could email the people you are trying to contact then in a round a bout way get a response for you.

It can sometimes take a while but I'm sure she could get an answer for you. And if she can't he husband if a professor at the Strausberg University ( also Australian ) and he could follow up.

Anyhow the offer, ever be so slow, is there if you need it. At least you have a contact in France who's an Aussie !

Keep the progress coming

Cheers

Ian

Link to post
Share on other sites

I know where there is one of these Renault in Queensland. I did have a pic of it,but recently my hard drive went west and i've lost it. If I run intro the owner,I'll get details from him regarding the model ,but I am sure it is the same size . :D

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Ian and Rob

Ian, Thanks for the offer, I now have two very helpful friends in France. Perhaps I will get to see the Dodge are you taking it to Tony McConnell for the trim? We will be at the VDC Swapmeet next Sunday.

Ron, if you can manage to pass on his details I would be very interested, according to the French RAG Forum there are very few of my model, 1927-9 "Monasix RY-RY1" known to exist.

Cordialement

Bernie j.

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...