Renault 1929 RY1 Monasix

[oldcar]

Well! I have had a relatively prompt reply from Depanoto and they are unable to assist in my search for a replacement for my incomplete brake servo. Certainly there are alternatives such as converting the brakes to hydraulic operation but that would be a major operation involving a major expense. Already I have spent far more than this car will ever be worth.

I don't expect anyone to tell me what I should do now.

I am disappointed that it has come to this but as far as I can see I may be able to sell the wheels and tyres for about a quarter of what they have cost me the rest may be worth a few dollars in scrap metal. In the one very expressive French word, MERDE!

Where to now?

Bj 198

Edited January 30, 2016 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

OK! OK! I have now finished cleaning the housing for the brake servo and cleaned and lubricated the two short pieces of (bicycle) chain. It is now all back together and re-attached to the side of the gearbox. All this has saved me an unknown number of dollars. Certainly hundreds; quite possibly thousands!

I have come up with a solution that even the Great, Louis Renault himself would be proud of.

The braking motion is taken from the pedal rearward via a short length of rod with a yoke at one end. One end of the chain is attached via the yoke and rod to an arm accached to the brake pedal cross-shaft from there the chain travels around a sprocket which is free to rotate on a short shaft within the servo housing. From there the chain travels through 180 degrees to energe from the servo housing directly below its other end but travelling in the opposite direction. From there the motion is taken via another short length of rod to the lever actuating the set of three bevel gears which act as a compensation arrangement betweeen the front and rear brakes the motion is then taken via a balance bar which acts to distribute the braking effort evenly between the right and left brakes. The braking effort is transmitted to the wheels via a series of cables running over pulleys to the front and rear of the car where the cables connect to the perrot shaft operating the brakes on each front wheel and a lever attached to the backing plates on each rear wheel.

Don't ask me if it works. With an advertised maximum speed of 59 kph (just over 30 mph) I doubt if that is all that important.

All together now. Three cheers of the late Lois Renault!

Bernie j.

Edited January 30, 2016 by oldcar (see edit history)

[r1lark]

OK! OK! I have now finished cleaning the housing for the brake servo and cleaned and lubricated the two short pieces of (bicycle) chain. It is now all back together and re-attached to the side of the gearbox. Bernie j.

Wow, that's great Bernie! But we need some pictures........

[36 D2 Coupe]

Hi Bernie 

Your travails (neat French word) with the Renault bring to mind the quote " THE DIFFICULT WE DO IMMEDIATELY; THE IMPOSSIBLE TAKES A LITTLE LONGER"  I've been following your work for a long time now and I think you've got that down to a science. Your approach to the impossible has been an inspiration to us lesser mortals.

Yes, there is no cheap fix but the satisfaction of working the kinks out of a seemingly insoluble problem is good pay indeed. And at the end of it all, satisfaction of one sort or another is what we are all going for.

 

All the best as you move forward

 

Jim

[Ian_Greenlaw]

Hi Bernie,

Interesting brake set up on the Renault I must say.

I've been following your thread and see that you may be stuck getting info from France.

I don't know if you remember but when I visited you a few years ago I mentioned by cousin ( from Perth ) who lives with her husband in Boersch....a little town just out of Strasbourg. They have been there for over 20 years and speak fluent French.

I wrote to her about you finding parts and she suggested that she put an add in the Leboncoin........she says that everyone uses this for everything now in France.

She's never heard of a Monasix ( not suprising ) so I'll send her a picture.

What particular parts are you after at this stage ?

Can't promise anything but never hurts to ask.

Happy to be the intermediate to pass information along.

Take Care

 

Ian

[JV Puleo]

Bernie,

I'm not certain it is all that odd. I suspect, that while the French lead the world in general automotive design at that point, the Stanley's light weight steam car had very little competition. It was the progenitor of the Locomobile steamer which was, for a time, the best selling car in the world. I'm guessing Stanleys must have been fairly well represented in Europe. I'm in the UK at the moment and yesterday I bought a 4-volume set of books titled "The Book of the Motorcar". It is one of those general works covering the whole range of automotive mechanical design that were popular at the time. Three of them are c.1912 and the last appears to be a post-WWI update. Almost everything illustrated is British, except the odd bit from a Cadillac (winner of the Dewar Trophy) and the Stanley boiler system which was, apparently, thought of as unique. Of course, by 1912 it was about the only one still being made so I'm not certain it was thought of as special beyond the point of being something the mechanic might encounter but if that was the case, then its one of the few American cars included.

 

jp

[oldcar]

Please do not be alarmed. I am currently attempting to de-clutter not only from this thread but my life in general. I have started to remove as far as possible anything not related to the Renault project. This clear out is not restricted to just this thread.

The attached photograph shows several years of Car Club Newsletters that have been taking up shelf space for far too long. They are to go to the VSCC Library and those not required can go to be recycled as waste paper.

Bj.

Edited February 22, 2016 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

One of the regular visitors to my thread on the RAG Forum wrote:-

Bernie on lit vos sujets. Mais ce qui n’est pas facile il me semble, c’est de suivre les restaurations de plusieurs parties différentes à la fois! This translates to something like :-

Bernie one reads your subjects. But what is not easy it seems to me, is to follow the restorations of several different parts at the same time!

I have sent the following reply; Translated of course into my best school boy French:-

While I can sympathise with you, please spare a thought for me. I am now approaching my 80th Birthday. I learnt French at school for one year about 65 years ago. Living in Australia, on the other side of the world, the opportunity to speak French is very limited. In recent times 4 to 6 weeks holiday every five years. And yet both my wife and I both love France and most things French. For instance I drive a 1996 Peugeot .

When I bought the Renault it was totally dismantled and in terrible condition with parts located in three separate sheds/barns. I was told by the person selling it, that it was a 1925 NN.This was because the only engine that came with it was a small 4 cylinder.(950cc) It was only after a great deal of research that I have been able to establish exactly what year and model my car is, even then it was not until I had managed to remove the vandal damaged “Lozenge”*(the Renault Diamond shaped logo) from the remains of the dashboard that I could positively say what exact model my car was. The remains of a RY1 Monasix.

Finding parts for any1929 RY1 Renault, as you may be aware, is extremely difficult. So far I have been unable to find any evidence to say that any others even came to Australia. It must be confusing for you as it is for me but rather than simply give up when I strike a problem with one thing i.e. the brake servo. I put that aside in the hope that the parts required will eventually turn-up and proceed to work on the next thing i.e. the engine.

As you are also probably aware I have attempted to sell my Renault, even to give it away, It seems that because Renaults are so badly regarded among Vintage Car Enthusiasts that no one wants it. Not even as a gift!

It has been suggested that I forget about trying to find the correct parts and simply install an Ford Model A engine and gearbox. This is something that I am not prepared to do.

So where do I find the parts I need to complete the car? Ideally I should take an aeroplane and fly to France then spend six to 12 Months driving around visiting all the members of the RAG Forum, Going to Depanoto and somehow find my way into their sheds, visit everyone who may possibly have an old Renault in their garage or barn. 12 months would probably not be long enough time.

It had seemed to me that my most likely source of parts or information leading me to likely sources would be the RAG Forum but quite apparently, this not so or at least not for “outsiders!”

*The details of year, model and chassis number are cleverly hidden at the back of this dashboard plate. The only thing that I am now absolutely sure of is that the car I am attempting to restore is or was a 1929 Renault RYI Monasix or Monastella.

N.B. The RY1 model was built for one year, 1929. Production:-9,090.

Yet once again I have to ask myself why am I doing it?

Edited February 23, 2016 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

Quote

"12 months would probably not be long enough time"

Much mor likely a lifetime, something that I simply do not have.

.............................................

I have now spent well over $20,000 and all I have is a pile of useless junk, five excellent wheels with new rims, five as new tires, five new reproduction hub caps and 20 new chrome wheel nuts and some sundry other parts brought a enormous expense from France. It may just be possible to transfer the new boat tail two seater body to something else but who would want it? I cannot even give it away!

As the French are prone to say in these situations:- MERDE!

Edited February 23, 2016 by oldcar (see edit history)

[Roger Zimmermann]

Bernie, if you are not sure about what you wrote in French, I may check/correct it for you.

[oldcar]

Thank you Roger

I have sent it to Fossoyeur who looks in here from time to time. He is one of the fathers of the RAG Forum and has been very helpful in the past.

Bj

[oldcar]

I think that my patience has finally run out with the Renault.

I have just placed an advertisement for it on Prewarcar

UK£4,500 that is about US$8,750.oo surely a bargain for someone with steady nerves.

I will even help with packing it up for shipping.

Bj

Edited February 25, 2016 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

Going way back to day one I can only think that I have made a serious error of judgement. I can only think that IF I had gone down the Rover path it would almost be finished by now. I would have not had the language difficulties and I would not have had to deal with any of the almost insurmountable problens the Renault has brought along. I know that I have to be prepared to loose a bundle but that is something that only I can deal with. It has happened before and it is just one of the hazzards of playing with antique automobiles. Anyone thinking of buying the Renault can be assured I have solved virtually all the problems it is just that I have fallen out of love with it.

Bj

Edited February 26, 2016 by oldcar (see edit history)

[r1lark]

it is just that I have fallen out of love with it.

Bj

Bernie, I admire you for acting on the realization that this project is no longer fun for you, and being willing to pass it on to someone who will be enthusiastic about it.

Paul

[oldcar]

HI Paul

The hardest part in all that is to find someone who actually wants it and is prepared to pay "something" for it.

Bernie j.

[oldcar]

If you could believe the advertising everybody should want one. This advert from 1926 a year before the Monasix was introduced.

Bj

Edited March 2, 2016 by oldcar (see edit history)

[F&J]

Bernie,

 

Every early car needs the right home and purpose...

 

I wonder if someone with funds or sponsors would consider building that unique car as an open wheeled boat tail beach racer?  Take a few minutes to search for "Race of Gentlemen" which was originally only run in October in New Jersey USA... but as the popularity is growing so fast, they now will have a second event in California.

 

I really think these events will grow to include other countries.   There is another unrelated event in Colorado billed as a hill climb course.

 

I am not sure if ROG accepts non-USA cars, but I do know that the only competition factor, is being accepted for the limited number of cars that are allowed.    I would think the styling of a Renault nosed racecar with those disc wheels would make the chance of getting accepted, very good.

 

..and, you won't need to worry about things like that rare brake booster.  Just make the car do it's job.  It could turn a nightmare 100 point restoration, into a laid back fun project.   IMO.

 

.

 

.

[oldcar]

Perhaps something more like this 1906 Renault.

Bj

Edited March 2, 2016 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

Damm! I really cannot help myself.

While I am waiting impatiently for my friends a Crankshaft Rebuilders to organise some valve guides AND after looking at the remains of the original combined inlet and exhaust manifold I thought that I could build a tubular manifold that would do the job better. First thing was to go to my personal "steel store" and obtain a length of 6mm (1/4 inch) plate. With this on the bench the next task was to cut a heavy brown paper pattern from the spare block. This could then be stuck down on the strip of steel. After drilling 1/4 inch pilot holes the main 32mm (1 1/4 in) holes could be cut using a bi-metal hole saw in my drill press. Using some cutting oil to keep the cut cool and well lubricated.

The second photograph shows the almost finished (520mm X 80mm) plate.

OK some of the bright eyed among you will at once say "The silly bugger has messed it up. One end hole is out of line!" Not so that is exactly as Louis Renault intended. Why? I do not know but on both cylinder blocks the (exhaust) port nearest to the bulkhead is set lower than the other four. Now I have you really jumping. This a six cylinder engine but you can only count five exhaust ports. That is exactly as the good Louis intended. In the same way as he has only allowed four inlet ports to feed six cylinders.

Please do not ask me, I am just the worker and it is too late now, by about 71 years, to ask Louis Renault.

For all those people still puzzled by my steel supply. This one is a length of scrap 6" X 3" X 1/4" structural steel salvaged from a building demolition site. This I am gradually using up, cutting out the required pieces of 6mm (1/4") plate using a thin cut off blade in my angle grinder.

Bj.

Edited March 6, 2016 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

Now always assuming that you are wide awake here (below) is a photo of the porting arrangement from the 1929 Renault Monasix hand book,You will note that the end (Furthest from camera)exhaust port is on the same plane as the four inlet ports, the other four exhaust ports are higher.

Looking from left to right (front to rear) the porting arrangement is

1. Exhaust, serving #1 cylinder.

2. Inlet, serving # 1 & 2 cylinders.

3. Exhaust, serving #2 cylinder.

4. Inlet, serving #3 cylinder.

5. Exhaust, serving #3 & 4 cylinders.

6. Inlet, serving #4 cylinder.

7. Exhaust, serving #5 cylinder.

8. Inlet, serving #5 & 6 cylinders

9. Exhaust, serving #6 cylinder.

The owners handbook shows the order of valves as follows, EI IE IE EI EI IE. It then goes on to explain the order of adjusting the tappets as:-

"Turn the engine until the first valve is down, check clearance then turn the engine to the ninth valve then the sixth, twelth, fourth, seventh, changing to the inlet valves starting with the second valve then tenth, fifth, eleventh, third and finally eighth It

The firing order for anybody who is not totally confused by now is 1, 5, 3, 6, 2, 4.

Anybody who is not completely insane before buying a 1929 Renault Monasix need not worry. Even after a comparitively short period of ownership and they will definitely be certifiable!

Bj.

Edited March 6, 2016 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

Very reluctantly, as it has become abundantly clear that I can NEVER obtain the necessary parts to finish my Renault RY1, I will attempt to sell at least some of the parts. I have five wheels all with new (well-based) 18 inch rims and five as new 18 in tyres. A complete set of instruments including both MPH and KPH speedos, 5 new Depanoto chrome hub caps, 20 new chrome wheel nuts, 12 RH and 8 LH. 2 new Depanoto Tail lights, a pair of original (unrestored) headlamps including ORIGINAL glass ( with Renault Lozonge in centre). 2 x New Depanoto, brake and clutch rubber pedal covers. Five spoke steering wheel in fair/good condition, NN gearbox in "as bought from France" condition. 12 new valves and valve guides (require some machining) Brake drums and shoes, 2 x Clutch to suit RY including new Depanoto friction linings, NN Cone clutch needs re-lining) 2 X bonnet badges 1 Round Brass, 1 Diamond Aluminium, 2 Monasix motors (Dismantled) 1X RY1 with rare 44 mm BE Crank and conrods. 2 X camshafts and sets of valve lifters (Tappets) RY1 centre cross member with brake compensation/balance mechanism. 2 X sumps, 2 x timing case RY1 Rear axle assembly (heavy). I also have a 4 cylinder 950cc (NN) engine, 4 cylinder SEV Magneto, and a bronze Solex side draft, barrel throttle carburettor. There is a collection of hand books in both French and English, etc and a cd disc containing approximately 1000 photographs of Veteran & Vintage Renaults. Gear change and Hand brake levers. There is also a new steel tube frame, aluminium panelled Boat tail two seater body to suit a RY chassis and a brass Vee windscreen frame. There is a rust free RY Monasix steel front bonnet (very heavy) and a Monasix four piece radiator, chassis, springs etc. Lastly there are two X Dynastart, one fully re-wound/rebuilt at VAST expense by a Swiss specialist and in as NEW condition including NEW control-box/cut-out. The other in good working condition complete with control-box etc.

All parts are negotiable, anything not sold will be cut up and go to scrap metal.

Currently I stand to loose approximately UK£20,000. I have attempted for some months to sell the car as a stalled restoration project on the Pre-war-car web-site for as little as UK£3,500 . It was actually offered at one time for "Best offer over UK£1. without receiving a single genuine enquiry.

I doubt that there is even one person alive who will mourn the passing of what must be one of just a handful of 1929 RY1 Monasix Renaults left anywhere in the world.

Bernie Jacobson

Merde!

[OnSafari]

Bernie,

 

May I suggest to list your Renault on eBay, as I have found recently while selling off a number of cars and motorcycles that eBay was the ONLY advertising medium that generated both local (Australia) and international interest. All my items sold via eBay and i did have them listed on other sites. In my opinion, justcars, uniquecars etc is not worth the trouble to list.

[oldcar]

Hi

Thanks for the suggestion I have not sold anything on e-bay for quite some time but I will give it a try.

Bj

[oldcar]

The Renault has been sold.

Thank you for all your interest and support.

Bernie j.

Edited March 16, 2016 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

While I am still waiting to tick all the boxes and finish packing up all the Renault stuff IF you go all the way back to page one you will see some mention of early 1920s Rovers. Now you will just have to hold your breath. It would be nice to be able to rurn back the clock but unfortunately that is just not possible.

Meanwhile for those who occasionally look at my "other thread" I am slowly dismantling it at the request of an early Saxon man!

Bj.

Edited March 16, 2016 by oldcar (see edit history)

[Roger Zimmermann]

The Renault has been sold.

Congratulation Bernie! You did certainly a financial loss, but you are with an experience richer (we say in French: on est plus pauvre qu'avant, mais on est plus riche d'une expérience!)

 

[oldcar]

Thank you Roger

On that basis I must be a multi-millionaire, unfortunately that does not pay the bills but it is a comforting thought.

Bj

Edited March 16, 2016 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

Getting ready for shipping.

[unimogjohn]

Bernie, is it going back home to France?

[oldcar]

Hello John

Unfortunately it is not going anywhere? Another absolute time waster.  What motivates these people?

Merde!

 

Bj

[John_Mereness]

What does your assembled project look like  - hard to tell from the last posted picture ?

Edited March 26, 2016 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[oldcar]

Hello John

Below are the three most recent photographs. 

 

Bj

[r1lark]

Wow Bernie, I'm amazed at how much you have done on this car. Yes, I have been faithfully following your posts, but with it all put together it is obvious how far it has come. And your body-building skills are impressive also.......you are truly a craftsman.

[oldcar]

Thank you Paul

Perhaps you can understand why I am so frustrated at not being able to sell it at just US$ 4,950.

 

Bj

 

[oldcar]

Thank you to those who have expressed concern about my absence.

It is just that I have had nothing to report. I am sure that you would sooner hear about the incredable time wasters who have been leading me a merry dance when they quite apparently had no intention to buy the Renault. Perhaps someone would care to explain just what it is that motivates these people?

 

Perhaps they really think that given enough pain that I will really give it to them.

 

Bj.

[Restorer32]

Might help if you could post a pic of a restored example of your car or at least a pic of one that is complete. Difficult to visualize what it would actually look like finished.

[oldcar]

Hello Restorer 32

The photographs two or three posts above were taken a week or two ago . I have just run out of enthusiasm for it and would like to sell it as is. Even I am not so generous as to sell a finished restoration for under $5,000. To get it to this stage, as I am sure you can appreciate, has cost me more than three times  this!  In case you have not followed the entire thread I am now 79 years old and while still quite active, just feel that I may not live long enough to finish it.

I would hate to leave it to my wife to clear up all my mess.

Just earlier this week, I had an internal examination, not something that you look forward to, as part of the annual series of tests I undergo, following MAJOR surgery for bladder cancer 9 years ago.

I now have just one kidney,  a "neo-bladder"and no prostate. At the time I was told, if I disregarded the doctors advise, I was given 3 months to live and another five years if I had the surgery.  I think that I am now on bonus time...

 

Bj

Edited April 9, 2016 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

What is a Neo-bladder?

Not too many people have one.....  During a 14 hour operation, having removed my bladder the surgeon then removed a length of small intestine. This is sliced lenghtways to open it out and when laid flat it is cut into four segments. These segments are then stitched together not unlike a football bladder. This is inserted in place of the original and  connected to the original "plumbing". While all this was happening I also had my right kidney removed along with my prostrate and sundary other bits. While not perfect it is better than a couple of the alternatives.

I am sorry but I do not have any photographs. I do have a rather fancy scar about 15inches long that does an "s bend" around my navel.

However during my annual "internal examination" I am fully concious and can follow proceedings on a TV screen above my head. Modern medical science is quite remarkable!

 

Bj.

Edited April 9, 2016 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

Back to The Renault!

There were at least two coach-building firms in France building sporting bodies of Renaults during the 1920s Probably LaBourdette was the best known. Lavocat et Marsaud was another. The illustration is from a Renault Advertisement from 1925.

 

Edited April 9, 2016 by oldcar (see edit history)

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

On 4/9/2016 at 7:34 PM, oldcar said:

What is a Neo-bladder?

Not too many people have one.....  During a 14 hour operation, having removed my bladder the surgeon then removed a length of small intestine. This is sliced lenghtways to open it out and when laid flat it is cut into four segments. These segments are then stitched together not unlike a football bladder. This is inserted in place of the original and  connected to the original "plumbing". While all this was happening I also had my right kidney removed along with my prostrate and sundary other bits. While not perfect it is better than a couple of the alternatives.

I am sorry but I do not have any photographs. I do have a rather fancy scar about 15inches long that does an "s bend" around my navel.

However during my annual "internal examination" I am fully concious and can follow proceedings on a TV screen above my head. Modern medical science is quite remarkable!

 

Bj.

 

 

  Remarkable, indeed.

 

  Ben