Jump to content

Dodge Brothers Clutch Disc - 10" 10 Spline needed


Recommended Posts

UPDATE EDIT: 10/20/2014

The clutch disc setup I need is in post #8 if anyone has one please let me know. It's the 10" 10RD model 562. Casting number 3033 with a C2

-----------------

Original post:

Clutch Disc needed. Please let me know if you have one similar to the disc in the photo below, note the 6 holes in the center. I am also listing other parts for the clutch assembly in hopes of locating those.

This design was used in the following passenger vehicles:

1928 Victory Six

1929 Victory Six

1929 Standard Six

Truck models :

1929/30

1/2 tons

3/4 tons

some 1 and 1 1/2 tons also.

Borg & Beck parts:

Name plate - 10Q #625

Drive plate - # is 10515 in Borg & Beck references and CD225L in Borg Warner references.

Facing - # M929B

Any leads or possibilities are much appreciated, thank you.

post-69994-143142627551_thumb.jpg

Edited by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Joe for the suggestion but the one in the photo is of a 10 7/8" I found on Ebay that's for sale. I'm only using the photo for a visual to give folks an idea of what to be looking for.

Technically the one in the photo is of a Borg & Beck 11Q that was meant for the larger 660 name plates that would have been used on the 1927/28 Senior Six, 1927/28 Four, 1929 DB Senior, and many other trucks in the years 1927/30 series HE, ED, OE, TE, RE, JE, and YE (Bus).

Edited by 30DodgePanel
Spelling error (see edit history)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks guys but I'm a purist when it comes to this truck (in an unhealthy kind of way :)). I don't mind using parts that didn't come with the truck originally but I do want everything on the truck to be time period correct with limited fabrications.

So far the running boards are the only thing I need to fabricate or make adjustments to but that's only because there are so few of these panel trucks left that the correct boards are virtually non existent or already in use on other matching restorations. I know the search for some of the exact parts I still need (mirror, bumper medallion) may be next to impossible to find over time but I'm in no hurry. Maybe over time if I cannot find the correct parts then I'll be forced to fab the parts needed to see the truck gets finished but I just want it to be as original as possible.

Call me crazy but I search for NOS Fisk Air Flights in 6 ply and 8 ply daily because that is what was on the truck originally but deep down I know that those will never be found.

I do like your ideas and really appreciate the input but I really want to use original parts. I am entertaining purchasing the larger one on Ebay and just turning the OD down a bit because that is the closest to original that I may ever get. More than likely I'll be forced to dismantle a Victory Six trans I found for the parts I need, but everything in me wants not to do that because I know some Vic Six owner will need it someday which is why I was hoping someone on here would have some of these parts I need so I wouldn't have to resort to that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I truly want this truck to be as original as possible:

Last night we had a group of family and friends over for a bbq/pool party and one of my daughters friends who is a Honda engine tech was drooling over the truck saying "If I had this truck I would chop the top, throw a big block V8 in it and yada yada ya..." ...

I immediately looked at him with a stern look in all seriousness and said "and that's why I will never sell you this truck" ! "Don't look at it, as a matter of fact lets get back to the party before you touch it" ! Yes we all laughed, but I'm serious dammit, don't touch my truck. LOL

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Clutch Disc needed. Please let me know if you have one similar to the disc in the photo below, note the 6 holes in the center. I am also listing other parts for the clutch assembly in hopes of locating those.

This design was used in the following passenger vehicles:

1928 Victory Six

1929 Victory Six

1929 Standard Six

Truck models :

1929/30

1/2 tons

3/4 tons

some 1 and 1 1/2 tons also.

Borg & Beck parts:

Name plate - 10Q #625

Drive plate - # is 10515 in Borg & Beck references and CD225L in Borg Warner references.

Facing - # M929B

The rust ones are from my 29 DB 3/4 "E" series parts truck. The Type agrees with table summary as 10RD model 562. Casting number 3033 with a C2.

The others came from the 29 DB Victory 6 sedan with the DA engine I got in AZ. The type is 10RD model 561. Casting number 3033 with a C3.

The difference may be spring pressures .

post-71470-143142628607_thumb.jpg

post-71470-143142628661_thumb.jpg

post-71470-143142628632_thumb.jpg

post-71470-143142628642_thumb.jpg

post-71470-143142628652_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sherman, I'm having a serious senior moment right now so bear with me....

Can you tell me where my truck falls into the listing then ? We both have E series but different years. I am now questioning if this is coming down to the build dates or if I'm simply over thinking this.

My build date was 3/11/1930 and I assumed it fell under the "1929 3/4 ton" listing for the 10Q 625. So are you saying mine should also be a 10RD 562 ? I hope that is the case cause I know where one is.

BTW, that is great confirmation that it jives with the literature in regards to the DA6 Arizona trans you bought and the trucks in the DEF, DEW.... series listing. My question is what is my truck then ? I thought it was simply an E series 1929/1930. The DEF and DEW's series are all throwing me for an unexpected loop.

Edited by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sherman, I'm having a serious senior moment right now so bear with me....

Can you tell me where my truck falls into the listing then ? We both have E series but different years. I am now questioning if this is coming down to the build dates or if I'm simply over thinking this.

My build date was 3/11/1930 and I assumed it fell under the "1929 3/4 ton" listing for the 10Q 625. So are you saying mine should also be a 10RD 562 ? I hope that is the case cause I know where one is.

BTW, that is great confirmation that it jives with the literature in regards to the DA6 Arizona trans you bought and the trucks in the DEF, DEW.... series listing. My question is what is my truck then ? I thought it was simply an E series 1929/1930. The DEF and DEW's series are all throwing me for an unexpected loop.

It appears your truck is in the listing as 3/4 group if you know for sure you have 10Q clutch in your truck.

The 10RD lists as the DE, DEW, DEF, etc. group. These trucks were the GB carry overs and the DEW, DEF were the DE model with optional tires and heavier rear springs. My parts truck build card shows 4/11/30. This may not be the actual build date.

I would believe there plenty of parts around to build trucks and they used them till they were used up. The transition years to the new model trucks is confusing.

Your truck is a DA 124 and has a different frame design and body panels.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It appears your truck is in the listing as 3/4 group if you know for sure you have 10Q clutch in your truck.

The 10RD lists as the DE, DEW, DEF, etc. group. These trucks were the GB carry overs and the DEW, DEF were the DE model with optional tires and heavier rear springs. My parts truck build card shows 4/11/30. This may not be the actual build date.

I would believe there plenty of parts around to build trucks and they used them till they were used up. The transition years to the new model trucks is confusing.

Your truck is a DA 124 and has a different frame design and body panels.

OR..... Dave, someone's already had their way with your truck... :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Sherman but the problem is I have only the transmission shell and no interior clutch components were left with the vehicle so I'm forced to try and figure out what is correct and I'm not entirely sure my clutch would have been a 10Q. The 10Q and 10RD are both 10 spline but that's all I can confirm with the shell I'm left with which is why I'm still trying to figure out the correct original clutch design at this point.

I know my truck is different but does it fall under the 1929/30 DEF sequence series 562 10RD listed in B&B literature or the 1929 1/2 ton thru 1 1/2 tons listed with the 625 in your opinion?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Sherman but the problem is I have only the transmission shell and no interior clutch components were left with the vehicle so I'm forced to try and figure out what is correct and I'm not entirely sure my clutch would have been a 10Q. The 10Q and 10RD are both 10 spline but that's all I can confirm with the shell I'm left with which is why I'm still trying to figure out the correct original clutch design at this point.

I know my truck is different but does it fall under the 1929/30 DEF sequence series 562 10RD listed in B&B literature or the 1929 1/2 ton thru 1 1/2 tons listed with the 625 in your opinion?

Hard to say which is correct.

I wonder if either will work since they are both 10 spline. I would believe that a truck would have a stiffer spring system. Thence the 561 for car and 562 for trucks.

I do not for sure my DE truck clutch model but I would assume it is the 10RD 562 model. My parts truck is identical to the DE but it is actually shown as a DA 120 on the build card and it had the 10RD 562 model.

To bad you do not have any trucks like yours near you to compare notes with.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just remembered,

you have the same trans as I do,,, isn't yours a T11 1A Warner 3 speed also ?

Just to confirm the OD of your 10RD is 9 7/8 " to 10 " correct ?

The other 10RD I found that I thought would work is only a 9" so the search continues...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just remembered,

you have the same trans as I do,,, isn't yours a T11 1A Warner 3 speed also ?

Just to confirm the OD of your 10RD is 9 7/8 " to 10 " correct ?

The other 10RD I found that I thought would work is only a 9" so the search continues...

The trans is from my 29 DE. I am not to sure the side plate is for. Is it for a PTO power take off.

Both disc plates shown before are 10".

post-71470-143142631919_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you sir.... that is the proof I needed. Now I just need to find a 10RD.

I'm guessing this is the same as the 3/4 ton Fargo Clipper from the other pics in the B&B literature.

There is a 9" (9RD) on Ebay right now and he claims it's for a Fargo, probably the 1/2 ton version, same exact design as yours btw...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
The trans is from my 29 DE. I am not to sure the side plate is for. Is it for a PTO power take off.

Both disc plates shown before are 10".

[ATTACH=CONFIG]260262[/ATTACH]

Sorry Sherman I forgot to respond to this. Yes, that is the PTO cover plate and the screw is to check fluid level (#'s 35 & 36).

Here's a scan from owners manual/instruction book, I couldn't recall if your DA-120 owners manual showed it or not.

post-69994-143142651662_thumb.jpg

Off topic:

You had warned me in another thread previously about something on the exhaust manifold to watch out for but I can't recall what you said and I can't find the thread. Can you recall what that warning was in regards to the manifold ? It seemed like it had something to do with the heat control cover ....

I'm getting ready to do some work on the manifold and wanted to make sure I didn't damage anything.

Edited by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry Sherman I forgot to respond to this. Yes, that is the PTO cover plate and the screw is to check fluid level (#'s 35 & 36).

Here's a scan from owners manual/instruction book, I couldn't recall if your DA-120 owners manual showed it or not.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]262307[/ATTACH]

Off topic:

You had warned me in another thread previously about something on the exhaust manifold to watch out for but I can't recall what you said and I can't find the thread. Can you recall what that warning was in regards to the manifold ? It seemed like it had something to do with the heat control cover ....

I'm getting ready to do some work on the manifold and wanted to make sure I didn't damage anything.

thanks for information. My "E" DA manual has a different view of the engine. The trans is not shown. Did I purchase the manual from you? I forgot where I got it.

I remember cautioning you on removing the cast iron heat control valve. It was rusted so badly that broke off a small piece of the flange. Not sure best way to remove. Be careful.

the attached photo is of the Victory the engine I got in in May in AZ. Note the exhaust exit in the front and motor number at rear of engine. Both of my DA 120 engines had the exhaust out the back and the motor number in near the water pump. The Victory 6 exhaust exits the rear of the engine since the starter/generator would be in the way of the exhaust.

Another difference is the fan has only two blades on the passenger engine. The truck has four blades for better cooling.

Where is your motor number and exhaust exit?

post-71470-143142651689_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes I did sell you that book, I figured you would need it more than anyone. I believe your electric schematic may be different than what I need though. I can't recall why right now but I believe I noticed something different on my truck if I recall (when I mocked up what was left of the original wiring harness EDIT: Interior cargo lamp and two dash lamps, maybe other things also..). I do have that DA-120 electrical diagram on file but I did not know if you had the other side of the engine/trans that showed the PTO.

The running donor engine I have is out of a 1929 DA6 Coupe that I'll be dropping in the truck till I can find a running truck engine (cleaning exhaust parts soon for mockup from truck to car engine). The seized DA6 truck engine that's resting in my truck now is out of a 1 1/2 ton. Both engines have the rear exit exhaust, the seized truck engine # is towards the front by water pump and the DA6 car engine # is located at the rear.

Here's the seized truck engine that is resting in the truck now - # is up front, exhaust out the rear.

This is the truck manifold I will be trying to re-use on the running coupe donor in the photo below. I'll be extra careful with the heat control valve now, thank you.

post-69994-143142651779_thumb.jpg

Here is the running coupe engine the day I unloaded it shows the exhaust in the front. Trans is correct for passenger cars but I will be looking to complete my partially complete truck trans someday (once I find the correct clutch assembly 10RD) and mate the truck trans to the running coupe engine. Eventually I hope to have a full running and time period correct truck drivetrain by the time I'm finished but for now I'll be making due with what I have. Once I have all truck parts throughout the drivetrain I'll sell the parts to a passenger car DA6 owner who needs them, well, that's my hope anyway. As you know, the correct DA6 truck engines are nearly impossible to find so that search could last years.

post-69994-143142651785_thumb.jpg

EDIT:

Do you have the correct fan for your truck ? I have one that is bent if you want to salvage it you can have it once I remove it from the seized engine.

Edited by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes I did sell you that book, I figured you would need it more than anyone. I believe your electric schematic may be different than what I need though. I can't recall why right now but I believe I noticed something different on my truck if I recall (when I mocked up what was left of the original wiring harness EDIT: Interior cargo lamp and two dash lamps, maybe other things also..). I do have that DA-120 electrical diagram on file but I did not know if you had the other side of the engine/trans that showed the PTO.

The running donor engine I have is out of a 1929 DA6 Coupe that I'll be dropping in the truck till I can find a running truck engine (cleaning exhaust parts soon for mockup from truck to car engine). The seized DA6 truck engine that's resting in my truck now is out of a 1 1/2 ton. Both engines have the rear exit exhaust, the seized truck engine # is towards the front by water pump and the DA6 car engine # is located at the rear.

Here's the seized truck engine that is resting in the truck now - # is up front, exhaust out the rear.

This is the truck manifold I will be trying to re-use on the running coupe donor in the photo below. I'll be extra careful with the heat control valve now, thank you.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]262314[/ATTACH]

Here is the running coupe engine the day I unloaded it shows the exhaust in the front. Trans is correct for passenger cars but I will be looking to complete my partially complete truck trans someday (once I find the correct clutch assembly 10RD) and mate the truck trans to the running coupe engine. Eventually I hope to have a full running and time period correct truck drivetrain by the time I'm finished but for now I'll be making due with what I have. Once I have all truck parts throughout the drivetrain I'll sell the parts to a passenger car DA6 owner who needs them, well, that's my hope anyway. As you know, the correct DA6 truck engines are nearly impossible to find so that search could last years.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]262315[/ATTACH]

EDIT:

Do you have the correct fan for your truck ? I have one that is bent if you want to salvage it you can have it once I remove it from the seized engine.

I have two DA 6 truck engines. It is good to have a backup. I only have one correct trans. Thanks for offer But I have the correct fan.

Interesting that my truck engine has some additional stamping near the motor number. Hard to read but appears to be V 20. I suspect that this may designate oversize main engine bearings. Do you notice any additional numbers on your truck engine?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

Sherman,

I took a photo of the rear of the engine on the 29 DA6 Coupe donor that I'm putting in the Panel. Looks like 2 triangles inside one another , then a large 2 or maybe an upside down 7. Then a C is underneath and to the left of the H code.

Sorry it took so long, I completely forgot about this. Does the information provided mean anything ? C for Coupe ?

Still looking for a 10" RD set up by the way...and still trying to locate your Stewart Vac along with everyone else's parts that have put in requests but with no luck at this point. Have tried to visit the yard for the past 3 weeks but the owner has been busy with work so I'll try and make a trip as soon as he's ready to meet.

post-69994-143142786048_thumb.jpg

post-69994-143142786031_thumb.jpg

Edited by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sherman,

I took a photo of the rear of the engine on the 29 DA6 Coupe donor that I'm putting in the Panel. Looks like 2 triangles inside one another , then a large 2 or maybe an upside down 7. Then a C is underneath and to the left of the H code.

Sorry it took so long, I completely forgot about this. Does the information provided mean anything ? C for Coupe ?

Still looking for a 10" RD set up by the way...and still trying to locate your Stewart Vac along with everyone else's parts that have put in requests but with no luck at this point. Have tried to visit the yard for the past 3 weeks but the owner has been busy with work so I'll try and make a trip as soon as he's ready to meet.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]276199[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]276200[/ATTACH]

i never found out about these additional stamped letters. Believe to be reference to other internal rebuilds or modifications . Possibly changed engine bearing size.

Thanks for checking on vacuum tank.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...