1951 76R Roadmaster project

[Guest LONG]

fun build man.

[Eric W]

Over the past couple of days, wrapped the engine compartment wiring. Started at the farthest out point, and wrapped back towards the firewall. Once the larger left side looked like it was wrapped as far as it would go, I decided to make 5 wires longer to have a little more slack for forming curves and making the turn through the firewall. Did the left side pretty much in place, except the generator to regulator group, which is 3 shorter lines that can go in together. For the right side bundle, I un-attached the fewer number of connections over there and brought it over by the left side for easier access. I used a tape like electrical tape, but without the glue. I also used multiple pieces as needed, using about 4-feet of the material at each time, then just overlapping the wrap to do the next section. Down low by the brake light switch was the hardest - that could have come out, but I didn't feel like un-attaching the headlight dimmer switch leads. Finally, got the firewall plate back on. Haven't had time yet to borrow the wheels/tires and battery from the other car to see if this one drives.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

  Looks GOOD, Eric.

 

  Ben

[Eric W]

Ok, the Halloween-related event that I had the 41D at is over, so I moved the battery to the 76R. I primed the carb, then started with a hose into a 2-gallon fuel bottle to check that the car would continue running off the bottle (that the engine driven fuel pump works). Yes, that worked better than I thought. So I transferred the wheels/tires over from the 41D. Only 5 jack stands, so I had to do one wheel at a time...  Started the 76R, and took it around the block a couple of times. Left it at the bottom of the driveway to sweep out the garage space, then put it back. So now, it's a driver (on borrowed wheels)!

[JohnD1956]

Love it!!!

[Smartin]

Fantastic!

[Buicknutty]

 Good stuff. Its' always nice when you get to drive your project!

 Keith

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

 You tha man, Eric,

  I notice she is missing the trunck handle. Need one?

 

  Ben

[Eric W]

I have the trunk handle, Ben. I actually have a pair of those new/reproduction lenses for it as well. Here's a video, and you can see what else isn't installed...

 

https://youtu.be/ctVeg8jsphk

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

 But you are making headway. Love it.

 

  Ben

[Buicknutty]

Nice drive, Eric! Sounds good.

Keith

[Eric W]

Added a few details.

[Eric W]

Seat showed up! It's not the power adjusted version, but it will line up with holes already in the floor with a little straightening of the track brackets. Other than that, it will look the same. (From a 1952 56R)

 

And some absolute unobtanium. I tried this on the 41D, and it doesn't fit. It's made for the 56R/76R. One side of the sheetmetal bracket is cracked, but it's a simple flat-plane bend.

 

[JohnD1956]

When I look at an upholstered seat I tend to overlook the engineering that goes into this one necessity. Seeing that exposed here it always makes me wonder how they sold the cars so cheap back in their individual era.

[smithbrother]

JohnD1956, I agree with your post, I find it very hard to understand how Harbor Freight can sell so cheap.

 

I have purchased lots of their stuff, and have had very few issues.  A mini air hacksaw for $9.99, and it has worked very well, I have 4 of the $15.00 cordless drills, and no issues, maybe low on power, but for my work, just fine. They save me time in changing bits, etc.

 

I look at pieces on my 41 Limited, and say, THEY WERE SHARP/SMART PEOPLE, and I THANK THEM.

 

Dale in Indy

[Eric W]

All 8 of the needed threaded holes existed in the floor. I'm not sure how many or what holes were used for the power-adjusted seat, but this one lines right up. I cleaned out the holes with a small wire brush, some PB Blaster, a 5/16-24 bolt, and finally a 5/16-24 tap. Got some replacement bolts (3/4" long, original was maybe 5/8") & star washers and got the bottom bolted in. Got the backs on. Getting the pin through the center for the 2nd seat back was the hardest part since it's one pin through both seat backs. I put the retention clips on so the backs won't fall off. It's quite a bit higher at the front of the seat than the little bench I had made, but sitting on it, it's lower than I thought it would be.

[JohnD1956]

The padding will make a big difference.

[Eric W]

I put that foam you can see behind the seat in the first picture under the blanket. Yes, that picks it up nice.

 

I got the battery from Tractor Supply - I think I saw that hint on this forum somewhere. Quite a bit lower cost than the FLAPS (about $106+tax, no core charge). Put that in this morning.

 

Also put in a new brake light switch, so now it has brake lights since I already did the harness/bulb/socket repairs.

 

Looked for some used tires yesterday, but no tire shop on this side of town had any 15's. There are some more (specifically used) tire shops over near where I work, so I'll check over there. I'll put those on extra rims to be able to move it around.

[Eric W]

Been a while on this one, but I haven't given up. Quick update, and then the latest part of the story - I did find a huge selection of used tires a little south of where I work, which is way to the south side of town. Had to move about 2 miles up the road due (actually back to the house where my '55 46R thread originated) and sell the '51 41D. (And unfortunately, as yet, none of the proceeds from that gets to be rolled back into this 76R.) Moving the 2 cars was fairly involved, though I guess it worked out easier than it could have. I drove the 41D to the destination, swapped the roller rims & used tires onto it, took the "good" rims/tires back to where the 76R sat, put those on. Then it sat for about a month. I don't even recall exactly what defined its "moving day", but some deadline (possibly self-created) had me make the 2-mile drive with the 76R. I hadn't driven it more than 3x around the block to that point, and my wife misunderstood my instructions (to follow directly behind me), so I found myself out on the road alone with this beast. Drive worked good for about a mile, then the trans was slipping. So I shifted to Low. It also was dropping in & out, but it made it. Since my wife wasn't behind me to hit the garage door opener, I had to stop in the street in front of the house. By the time I walked around to open the garage door from the inside, the car wouldn't engage any gear. So I turned it off in the street (perpendicular to traffic, mostly blocking the road, since I had expected to just pull right up). The driveway is only 1 car long, but too much slope to even attempt to push the car, so I hoped a little cool down would let it engage a forward gear.

We made this move around 6am on a weekend, so there wasn't any traffic. After some cool-down time, I started it, it engaged Drive, and I pulled it in.

I left the "good wheels" on it for about a month, and I took it up & down the street a couple of times (it's a dead-end street, so no around-the-block). It would "slip out" of Drive and Low. I didn't try reverse for far enough to see if that one slipped as well, but going through the manual, this symptom is likely low pump pressure, which could be from seals dried up from 30+ years of not being driven.

The "good wheels" had to go with the 41D (they're the wrong size for the 76R anyway), so about a week before the 41D sold, the basically undrivable "roller" wheels/tires went on the 76R.

After a couple of months of getting back into this house (installed tile, painted a few rooms, unpacking, etc.) it's about time to get back to doing something on the car.

Since the transmission has to come out, the rear end / rear suspension has to come out, so the car needs to be lifted - high. I rechecked Shadetree's '52 thread for his lift experience, and planned the attack. I did a test (pictured) with a single 2x4 (which are well under true 2x4) over two 4x4's at 16" apart (about 9" open span). Didn't even creak. So I know each corner can sit on a single 2x4 over a base 16" wide. Why 16"? Because I can cut 6 16" sections from an 8-foot board length.

So I bought 4 8-foot lengths of 4x4 and 2 8-foot lengths of 2x8. I also bought an 8-foot 2x4 - I didn't know why yet.

In the picture, you can see what the 4x4 and 2x8's turned into - six "lift platforms". Four of these have the 2x8's spaced to the outside (gap between them) because I thought the gap in the middle could make a good lift handle, and with the other lift platform on top of it, I wanted the 2x8's at the full 16" width for maximum stability.

How it went - jack on ground, lift one front corner far enough to insert lift platform. Do same for the other side.

Jack on ground, lift far enough to put jack stand under each rear corner (well in front of the back wheels).

NOW I know what the 2x4 is for - a JACK lift platform! I had 70" of 4x4 left over from something else, so I cut this in half. Then I cut the 2x4 into 16" lengths. I also had maybe another 5 or 6 2x4 scraps I could cut to 16" lengths to make a "deck" over the 35" 4x4's for the jack. I set this deck on maybe another 2" of particle board and jacked the front corners high enough to stack the 3rd and 4th lift platforms over the first pair. Then jacked the rear (with jack on platform) to put the jack stands on the 5th and 6th lift platforms. This gives the car almost perfectly level with 25" between the frame and the garage floor. Book says 20" minimum to pull the transmission, but I don't know what they assume for your transmission jack. (Car would be almost 3" higher in front with the correct-size tires!)

Followed the manual's instructions to pull the rear end. Of course, the last fastener that I did (the left-side spring retainer) was an absolute beast. Due to built-up junk on the bolt thread, I basically ground the thread off in getting that bolt out. I'll post in for sale / wanted - need another one of these (the bolt & the spring retainer plate). By the way, these spring retainers are left-hand thread! I found that completely by chance because after spraying the PB Blaster and letting it sit for a little, I like to attempt to break loose the thread a little by applying some force in the "tighten" direction. In this case, that's the "loosen" direction, and when the bolt turned left-hand style, I knew I could just keep going!

Anyway, rear end is fairly straightforward to drop. I expect I'll need help to get the drive shaft lined up to get it back up there, but the pull down wasn't that hard. When the rear tires were down on the ground, I just moved the jack around under the torque tube so it could roll back. I lowered the jack down, and after fumbling around with the front of the torque tube on some 2x4 scraps, I remembered I have wheel dollies, so I put one of those up there. Also put a fluid catch bowl up there. It's leaking what's probably ancient trans fluid out the front of the torque tube.

[JohnD1956]

What a lucky find that car is!  The underside looks exceptionally solid!  And one nice thing is it's so open without the torque tube.  I can almost see myself under there dolling up the underside before reinstallation of the drive line.  Note: "almost"...

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

  Neat, Eric.  Shadetree had not done his when I pulled mine. Not being able to go so high, the wheels/tires were removed and rear end rolled out on the jack.

 

  Sounds as if you have had a busy spring.

 

  Ben

[old-tank]

Having done this (too many times), I feel your pain:  back, neck, knees...

[Eric W]

I don't plan much underside clean-up at this point. I am cleaning up the rear drive assembly, since it's out & I can roll it around. I have already found a couple of interesting paint marks. Yellow stripe on the shock arm, and a red stripe around the torque tube. I did find the oxide red on the forward axle/diff housing, as others have. This car height has been good so far - high enough to just roll the rear end out with the wheels/tires on it.

 

I'm doing this out of order relative to "the book". Book says step 1 is remove the drift bolt from behind the starter solenoid, and that this can't be accessed from below. It also says use a special tool to drive this bolt out. Well, I lifted the car first, so this WAS done mostly from below. I saw Shadetree's post on making the "special tool". I had the starter redone on this car already, so it's clean. Wires are new too. So just pull the starter! I spent more time looking for the 11/32" wrench (for the small starter wire) than the whole rest of the job! (Blasted 11/32 wrench got in with my metric stuff.)

 

Pull starter, access the nut on the drift bolt from below. Pull the nut. Put 3/8 socket extension on the end of the bolt, hit extension (not too hard) with hammer, and knock the bolt out. Looks like this bolt wasn't pulled all the way in last time this trans was worked on (there's evidence this trans has been pulled before - may not even be the original).

[Eric W]

Scraped & wire-brushed the bellhousing cover, then sprayed with Purple Power a couple of times. I'll clean up the bottom edge with a file & hammer flat the bent corner.

 

Anyone know if this cover should have paint? If there was any on this part, it came right off with the road grime.

Other parts that came off today - dipstick, thrust pad, retainer bracket. Also disconnected the shift linkage. There's no detents at the transmission at all - the shift lever just smoothly moves through its range.

Speedometer cable - that's just the 1" or so ridged cap to disconnect it? I can't get pliers on that with the other hardware around it - might have to do that when the cross beam is out of the way.

[Eric W]

Cleaned up most of the parts today + bagged & labeled everything. Found a doubler plate in all that grime on the thrust pad bracket. Used manual scraping, wire brush, Purple Power, then soaked in hot water with a little Drano for an hour. For the spring clamps, though these were NOS, they were completely surface rusted. I didn't get a before photo, but here's the after - soaked those in Evap-o-Rust for an hour.

 

 

Edited June 13, 2016 by Eric W
removed duplicate photo (see edit history)

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Looking good. That Evapo-Rust is good stuff.

 

  Ben

[JohnD1956]

1 hour ago, First Born said:

Looking good. That Evapo-Rust is good stuff.

 

  Ben

Can't argue with these results.  It's on the Buy list!

[Eric W]

Got a bigger container for the Drano soak - 5 gallon. Soaked the trans front cover & diff cover. Also did the trans dipstick tube & tube support bracket. The Drano soak releases this rust-orange "mud" out from within the surface of the metal. Hopefully that's soaked-in grease. Anyway, these are the parts after soak, rinse, wash with dish detergent (to remove the Drano "slime" feel & smell), light sand with 220, then wipe with alcohol before prime & paint. On the diff cover, I also hammered out a couple of dents.

[beerczar1976]

Will be watching to see what the responses are on the bellhousing cover as well.  I pulled mine a couple years back when I drained the ATF.  Did a similar, but probably not as thorough cleaning.  As Eric W notes, whatever paint was on there, came off with the grease and road grime on mine as well.  Noticed mine is starting to surface rust without being painted.

[Buicknutty]

Looking very nice, Eric. I've never used Drano as a rust remover, but I will try it some time. Have you used vinegar? How similar is it in action to that?

Keith

[Eric W]

I was using the Drano as a grease remover. Not rust. Drano is caustic, so very high PH - causes grease to break down, same as what they advertise it would do in a clogged pipe. Vinegar is acid, so very low PH. I'm not sure what vinegar's reaction is - I tried it on a couple of parts a while back and it would immediately re-rust. I know another thread on here said to soak in a baking soda solution to neutralize the vinegar, but all that seems like it's fighting to use something that isn't all that great of a rust remover. How long to soak it for? How to determine correct concentration for the soda soak? How do you know if you completely canceled the vinegar action, and won't just end up with rust through new paint?

 

I have two phosphoric acid products now - the spray on Rust Cutter from Tractor Supply & the Evap-o-rust. Evap-o-rust is a soak. Both of these products turn the rust into a black product that settles out or washes / wipes off. After trying the phosphoric-acid based products, I would recommend going with those instead of vinegar. The phosphoric acid reaction stops when the product is washed off with water, and if you dry the water off so the water doesn't cause re-rusting, you get clean non-rusted bare metal to work with, and the acid reaction is done. Both of these are more expensive than vinegar by volume, but they work more easily and the reaction is easier to stop without rust reappearing.

[Eric W]

Found a before pic of those clamps. Evap-o-rust did good.

[Eric W]

Not such a good "before" photo on this one, but I didn't even know the DYNA FLOW lettering was on the part. Soak for a couple days in the Drano solution to loosen up the grease, water rinse & wire brush to remove the grease, then a couple hours in the Evap-o-rust to get the light surface rust off, and a little more clean up with a piece of Scotchbrite to get the last of the dirt/grease residue off. Final clean w/ alcohol, then paint.

[Eric W]

It's been a while, but with the summer heat around here, work in the garage hasn't been very tempting. I found a few things from the vendors in Allentown. Yes, those hood emblems aren't '51, but they'll just hang on the wall... I wasn't planning on a steering wheel at all, and squeezing an 18" wheel into a 14" carry-on back was interesting, but I got it back home. I did get back under there today and disconnect the flywheel bolts (15 of them!). I even marked the flywheel & turbine with paint to keep the clocking when it goes back in, but I might have a lead on a trans from another car. I think the point of the clocking is just to keep the two trans drain ports lined up with the clearance holes in the flywheel.

 

The photos with the wide-whites are from April when I moved the car. Those wheels/tires belonged to the 41D (sold it with the wide whites). I got the fender ports installed. Photo shows I only needed 3. Ok, 2 more wall-hangers...

[Eric W]

With some slightly cooler days, I have made a little progress on this transmission job. I got the trans jack from HF with the seldom-seen 25% off coupon. I made up the engine rear support from 1.25" x .25" steel bar stock. I'll get some photos later.

[Eric W]

Finally got the trans out! There were 4 more bolts on the support beam, and 5 on the bellhousing that I hadn't gotten to. The cross beam at the back of the engine doesn't seem to have a whole lot of weight on it - I was able to adjust the back of the engine downwards to get a little more access to the bolts at the top of the bellhousing. Fortunately someone had already cut a hole in the floor to access those bolts previously. With the jack all the way down, the top of the bellhousing was still 4" or so higher than the frame. So I tilted the jack forwards until the transmission sat down on its forward face. Pulled the jack out, then rocked the transmission back down onto its bottom (the pan), then slid it out. That's ok for getting it out - not sure what the plan will be to get it back in...

[Eric W]

I spoke with the vintage transmission guy here in town. His shop is closed for the summer, but he recommended to drop the pan and look inside. It might just be "gunked up" and cleaning it out would allow for fluid circulation. Unfortunately, I don't think this will be a good answer because the pan was fairly clean, and the intake screen was mostly clear. I cleaned the pan & screen, but I think it will still need a trip to the shop (when it's open again for fall).

I pulled off the ball and U-joint to see what Park mechanism looks like (since it's not working). Pic attached, but I'll also ask in the Postwar forum what is it supposed to look like, since I can't find any views of this in the shop manual. Also before pics of the trans support beam and an exhaust hanger bracket.

[EmTee]

What appears to be a missing/broken rivet on the park pawl may explain your 'no park' problem.  Did you find any of the pieces nearby?

[Eric W]

Nope. No extra pieces floating around. I thought I might have broken Park myself, but finding no extra pieces, it may have been broken when I got it. There is definite evidence that the transmission has been out of the car before - missing bolts, missing lock washers, and the "access holes" cut into the floor (an "improvement" from 1950 to 1951 - factory deleted transmission access panels). I did find out that the 2 "missing" bolts at the top of the bellhousing are intentionally left out of '51's because the access is so bad that the factory decided they just didn't need those. Supposedly the back of the engine doesn't have the mating holes there, but I haven't looked yet.

[1953mack]

On ‎6‎/‎24‎/‎2016 at 0:38 AM, Eric W said:

...I have two phosphoric acid products now - the spray on Rust Cutter from Tractor Supply & the Evap-o-rust...

 

According to the label, Evapo-rust does not contain any acids. Good stuff for around $20/gallon here.

 

Al Malachowski

BCA #8965

"500 Miles West of Flint"