Is 1 of 1 rare?

[Guest Leroyboy597]

I recently discovered my car is one of one. It's a 2004 Ford Thunderbird. I submitted my Vin No. to a guy to get the build date and options ordered and sticker price. Also the number of cars made that year that were ordered the same way and color. My car is one of one. Does that make it worth any more?

[MCHinson]

Welcome to the AACA Discussion Forum. Like anything, it is worth whatever a willing buyer will pay a willing seller. I doubt that makes it worth more.

I would think that the fact that nobody else who ordered a 2004 Thunderbird wanted it equipped exactly like that and in that exact color might mean it would be more difficult to find a buyer rather than easier to find a buyer willing to pay a premium price for it.

[PONTIAC1953]

well matthew, i have the other point of view, a car being only one of it's kind when compared with the rest of the same year, make, and model production run, does make the one of one worth more than the others. let's take the first year that pontiac built the starchief model, 1954, now pontiac built 115,088 starchief, only about 3,000 to 3,500 were ordered with the auto industry's very first up front, in dash, factory air conditioning, setting the new standard in a/c for everyone else to follow. today, there are only 17 known surviving 1954 starchiefs with factory a/c. when compared to all the non-a/c equipped 1954 pontiac starchiefs, the surviving a/c cars are worth alot more to buyers and collectors. another case, pontiac in 1957 built only 630 bonneville convertibles, based on only one per pontiac dealerships then, every options that cost extra on regular 1957 pontiacs, were standard equipment on the 1957 bonneville except two options, air conditioning and continental kit, only 3 or 4 1957 bonnevilles have the air conditioning option, those a/c equipped 1957 bonnevilles are worth much more than the other 1957 bonnevilles. bottom line, having a one of one type of car does make it much more attractive to car buyers or collectors. charles coker, 1953 pontiac technical advisor, poci.

[Matt Harwood]

The answer is, "It depends." In the case of your Thunderbird, I'm inclined to say no, it doesn't add any value. What, exactly, makes it "one of one?" That may or may not make it more marketable depending on the options, but it's not like there was an F-code supercharged engine option that only a handful of buyers ordered. I can't think of any options on the late-model Thunderbirds that would add exclusivity or value, even the unusual colors like the limited edition version that was made for that James Bond movie; even those sell for pretty much the same price as the other 'Birds.

It's more akin to the guys who have these big signs on their Corvettes at shows:

30,403 Corvettes built in 2011

6430 painted Dark Blue

2405 Dark Blue with Tan interior

1425 Dark Blue/Tan interior cars with dual tops

358 Dark Blue/Tan interior/dual top cars with CD changer

39 Dark Blue/Tan interior/dual top/CD changer cars with F41 suspension

3 Dark Blue/Tan interior/dual top/CD changer/F41 cars with chrome valve stem caps

1 Dark Blue/Tan interior/dual top/CD changer/F41/chrome valve stem cap car sold in Boise, Idaho. THIS IS THAT CAR!!!!!!

It's really a reach--technically, yes, it's the only one like that, but nobody's going to pay extra to have THAT car with THOSE options when dozens of nearly identical cars that are otherwise equivalent in terms of operation, comfort, and appearance are available.

So yes, a BIG option like an upgraded engine (none available on late-model Thunderbirds) or a rare but desirable option (like factory A/C on a 1950s car, as Charles Coker points out) would definitely add value. But having the only one with a particular combination of otherwise common options and that is pretty much identical to the other 10,000 cars built that year probably doesn't add value. They are nice cars, however, and I think that it's a good car to enjoy without worrying about investment values. Just have fun with it!

Hope this helps!

[Guest my3buicks]

I think also it will greatly depend on what makes it one of one. If it's just the way the options are on the car then no, if it happens to be a special color combination and it's a good one there might be a slight premium. I know the Bond 007 and Neman Markus Tbirds bring a premium.

[Machinist_Bill]

well matthew, i have the other point of view, a car being only one of it's kind when compared with the rest of the same year, make, and model production run, does make the one of one worth more than the others. let's take the first year that pontiac built the starchief model, 1954, now pontiac built 115,088 starchief, only about 3,000 to 3,500 were ordered with the auto industry's very first up front, in dash, factory air conditioning, setting the new standard in a/c for everyone else to follow. today, there are only 17 known surviving 1954 starchiefs with factory a/c. when compared to all the non-a/c equipped 1954 pontiac starchiefs, the surviving a/c cars are worth alot more to buyers and collectors. another case, pontiac in 1957 built only 630 bonneville convertibles, based on only one per pontiac dealerships then, every options that cost extra on regular 1957 pontiacs, were standard equipment on the 1957 bonneville except two options, air conditioning and continental kit, only 3 or 4 1957 bonnevilles have the air conditioning option, those a/c equipped 1957 bonnevilles are worth much more than the other 1957 bonnevilles. bottom line, having a one of one type of car does make it much more attractive to car buyers or collectors. charles coker, 1953 pontiac technical advisor, poci.

Mathew,

Only time will tell......

Let me know what happens in about 50 years. I will only be 110. That is if I'm not shot by a jealous husband when I'm 100........

[Guest my3buicks]

These Thunderbirds already have a fairly good following and if you watch the cruises they are a popular attraction.

[Rusty_OToole]

It all depends. If it was special ordered for racing with no air, no heat, no radio, no insulation, and has a winning history as a race car, then yes, being one of one built makes it more valuable.

If it just happens to have the least popular color, least popular upholstery, least popular power train, and least popular options, it could be one of one and not particularly valuable.

2004 T bird was a low production car, so to have one turn up that was the only one with a particular set of options may not be all that rare.

If there is a Tbird collector's club, they may be able to tell you if you have a gold mine or just a weird old car.

I saw a similar conversation on another board, about a 1958 Edsel that just happens to be the only 1958 Edsel in existence with a particular color scheme and upholstery. It seems the one color was rather ugly and unpopular, and this particular car was 2 toned with a combination of 2 unpopular colors and special ordered with upholstery that did not go with either color. The unpopular color was dropped after 2 months and replaced by another color. So, this particular car was one of a kind, early production, and not particularly good looking, desirable or valuable.

[Guest Leroyboy597]

I think also it will greatly depend on what makes it one of one. If it's just the way the options are on the car then no, if it happens to be a special color combination and it's a good one there might be a slight premium. I know the Bond 007 and Neman Markus Tbirds bring a premium.

I didn't order the car, I bought it used in 2007 with about 7K miles on it. The car is Evening Black with a Black soft top. What I liked about it besides the low mileage was it had a Partial Red interior instead of the full red interior. Partial meaning the interior was Black except for the steering wheel, gear shift nob and seat inserts were red. The full red interior, I thought was too loud. Another option were the 16 spoke Machined wheels, they look like the standard 16 spoke painted wheels till you take a close look at them. The Select Shift 5 spd. trans was chosen too. The thing that might be the biggest factor is the car was ordered without the removable hard top. That was a $2,500.00 option. I looked at a lot of Retro TBirds before I found this one. Since I've owned it I have gotten a hard top for it, I found a 2003 hard top in Mountain Shadow Grey. The car looks a lot like the 2002 Neiman Marcus special edition that they only made 200 of. The car now has 21K on it and has never been driven during the winter months, it always garaged and is covered by the Ford Premium Care warranty.

[Guest my3buicks]

A beauty for sure, having no hardtop is common, the wheels are often seen as well, nothing stands outcast making it particularly more valuable or less valuable than another of the sand year and good combination. I gave been seriously considering one so have been really into them the last 6 months.

[smithbrother]

Now if it had a Buick engine, then it would REALLY be rare, hehehe.

It took some time, but I'm beginning to like them.

Dale in Indy

[Guest my3buicks]

I have narrowed it down to either a Bond 007 edition or the Neman Marcus edition

[Dave@Moon]

It took some time, but I'm beginning to like them.

Dale in Indy

I always liked them, and I still think they're one of the most attractive cars ever to wear the name. They failed (it must be said miserably) INMO for only one reason: they were ungodly expensive given their content and character. If they could have sold the car for $28K instead of $35K+ (in 2002 dollars) I think it would probably still be with us.

It would be a no-brainer to say that this is one of the most collectible cars of the 21st Century thus far. The rarity caused by the high initial pricing will only enhace that.

[Dave Mellor NJ]

It was designed by the same guy who did the new beetle and I think the headlights were too much like them. They should have been more like the 55-57. The tail lights should have had a slight fin as well, I think those two things would have produced better sales.

[Guest AlCapone]

It all depends. If it was special ordered for racing with no air, no heat, no radio, no insulation, and has a winning history as a race car, then yes, being one of one built makes it more valuable.

If it just happens to have the least popular color, least popular upholstery, least popular power train, and least popular options, it could be one of one and not particularly valuable.

2004 T bird was a low production car, so to have one turn up that was the only one with a particular set of options may not be all that rare.

If there is a Tbird collector's club, they may be able to tell you if you have a gold mine or just a weird old car.

I saw a similar conversation on another board, about a 1958 Edsel that just happens to be the only 1958 Edsel in existence with a particular color scheme and upholstery. It seems the one color was rather ugly and unpopular, and this particular car was 2 toned with a combination of 2 unpopular colors and special ordered with upholstery that did not go with either color. The unpopular color was dropped after 2 months and replaced by another color. So, this particular car was one of a kind, early production, and not particularly good looking, desirable or valuable.

Rusty put it in a nutshell !

Wayne

[rocketraider]

The last Thunderbirds are on my short list too, but pricing has got to drop before I'll do it- they're still too expensive IMHO. Even then, it cannot be red or gray, which is mostly what I've found. Black isn't on the preferred color list either but I would consider it.

[Guest Leroyboy597]

Now if it had a Buick engine, then it would REALLY be rare, hehehe.

It took some time, but I'm beginning to like them.

Dale in Indy

It actually has a Jaguar engine and trans. 280 HP

[Dave@Moon]

It actually has a Jaguar engine and trans. 280 HP

While the 3.9L engine (Model AJ-30 in 2002, AJ-35 thereafter) was based on Jaguars AJ-V8 design, it was built exclusively in Lima, OH in a Ford engine plant and is unique to the Thunderbird and Lincoln LS. The transmission (a 5-speed automatic only) was a generic Ford C3 (model 5R55S) that was little different (it incorporated a manual-like "Select Shift") from Ford automatics found in Ranger/Explorer models and Australian Ford Falcons.

Edited June 25, 2014 by Dave@Moon
typo (see edit history)

[Guest Leroyboy597]

While the 3.9L engine (Model AJ-30 in 2002, AJ-35 thereafter) was based on Jaguars AJ-V8 design, it was built exclusively in Lima, OH in a Ford engine plant and is unique to the Thunderbird and Lincoln LS. The transmission (a 5-speed automatic only) was a generic Ford C3 (model 5R55S) that was little different (it incorporated a manual-like "Select Shift") from Ford automatics found in Ranger/Explorer models and Australian Ford Falcons.

Sorry, It was my understanding that since Ford owned Jaguar when they built these cars, they used the Jaguar V-8 and I thought trans. I know one thing, it's not like a typical Ford V-8.

[Beltfed]

This is what I consisted a one of one Ford.

1932 Ford Boat tail Speedster Easel had built for himself.

[Guest my3buicks]

I always liked them, and I still think they're one of the most attractive cars ever to wear the name. They failed (it must be said miserably) INMO for only one reason: they were ungodly expensive given their content and character. If they could have sold the car for $28K instead of $35K+ (in 2002 dollars) I think it would probably still be with us.

It would be a no-brainer to say that this is one of the most collectible cars of the 21st Century thus far. The rarity caused by the high initial pricing will only enhace that.

Very true Dave!! I think the Reatta fell prey to that problem as well, $36k for a conv in 1990 was huge Money.

[bhambulldog]

I didn't order the car, I bought it used in 2007 with about 7K miles on it. The car is Evening Black with a Black soft top. What I liked about it besides the low mileage was it had a Partial Red interior instead of the full red interior. Partial meaning the interior was Black except for the steering wheel, gear shift nob and seat inserts were red. The full red interior, I thought was too loud. Another option were the 16 spoke Machined wheels, they look like the standard 16 spoke painted wheels till you take a close look at them. The Select Shift 5 spd. trans was chosen too. The thing that might be the biggest factor is the car was ordered without the removable hard top. That was a $2,500.00 option. I looked at a lot of Retro TBirds before I found this one. Since I've owned it I have gotten a hard top for it, I found a 2003 hard top in Mountain Shadow Grey. The car looks a lot like the 2002 Neiman Marcus special edition that they only made 200 of. The car now has 21K on it and has never been driven during the winter months, it always garaged and is covered by the Ford Premium Care warranty.

Why is this a biggest factor? When, as you demonstrate, a hard top is easily added?

[Guest Leroyboy597]

Why is this a biggest factor? When, as you demonstrate, a hard top is easily added?

I say that because I believe most of the Retro TBirds out there were ordered by dealers and the hard top was a very popular option because of the porthole window. So the combination of partial interior, machined wheels and select shift as options, I don't think is too rare, but then add the absence of the hard top and I think that did it. But is my car being one of one as rare as say a Neiman Marcus that is one of two hundred or any of the other featured numbered models. My opinion is it doesn't matter what caused it to be one of one, it didn't cause the car to be ugly or weird, and it should be worth as much or more than one of two hundred.

[Matt Harwood]

I say that because I believe most of the Retro TBirds out there were ordered by dealers and the hard top was a very popular option because of the porthole window. So the combination of partial interior, machined wheels and select shift as options, I don't think is too rare, but then add the absence of the hard top and I think that did it. But is my car being one of one as rare as say a Neiman Marcus that is one of two hundred or any of the other featured numbered models. My opinion is it doesn't matter what caused it to be one of one, it didn't cause the car to be ugly or weird, and it should be worth as much or more than one of two hundred.

I have to disagree. It's a pretty car in great colors, but I don't think deleting an expensive and popular option adds value. These cars may become future collectables; my hunch is that they'll end up like the Collector Edition 1978 Corvettes: tons of low-mile examples lying around in perpetuity for not a lot of money. However, I don't think buyers will ever be willing to pay more just for the "1 of 1" status without it being something more significant than option delete. Would radio delete or A/C delete add value? It would certainly be rare. Without a hardtop, I think you'll have to discount it to sell it, even though like most cars with removable hardtops, the top will just sit in the garage gathering dust until the car is sold to the next guy.

[Guest my3buicks]

Been watching eBay for about 6 months, I would guesstimate 35-40 percent had the optional hardtop with them.

[Kimo]

The short answer is no. It would be worth something if that was the only Thunderbird built that year, but it is simply one of a great many and all are slightly different combinations of various options and packages.

[Guest Leroyboy597]

I have to disagree. It's a pretty car in great colors, but I don't think deleting an expensive and popular option adds value. These cars may become future collectables; my hunch is that they'll end up like the Collector Edition 1978 Corvettes: tons of low-mile examples lying around in perpetuity for not a lot of money. However, I don't think buyers will ever be willing to pay more just for the "1 of 1" status without it being something more significant than option delete. Would radio delete or A/C delete add value? It would certainly be rare. Without a hardtop, I think you'll have to discount it to sell it, even though like most cars with removable hardtops, the top will just sit in the garage gathering dust until the car is sold to the next guy.

Ok, So it's not worth anymore or less being one of one. But I don't plan on discounting the price of the car when I sell it because it doesn't have a hard top. In fact if I were selling it right now I wouldn't advertise it with the MSG top. I would offer it to the buyer at an additional and separate price and if the buyer didn't want it, I would not have any problem selling it on EBay. Tops are going for $1,000.00 to $1,500.00 White being the best selling then Silver. I use my top, it goes on in September and stays on till June.

[39BuickEight]

If the 1 of 1 was because of some neat option that no other car had, as in a special engine, transmission, door configuration, then yes. If the 1 of 1 is because someone ordered a car with an odd combination of typical options, then no.

I had a 1 of 1 2003 Chevrolet truck, because it was badged as an LS, but I ordered it with carpet delete, roof marker lights, cloth bucket seats, and BOSE, GM put factory installed heated seat buttons on it, but it didn't have heated seats and wasn't supposed to, and it was a black on black crew cab with a full 8' bed. On it's face, none of that makes it any more valuable. What did make it more valuable and enabled me to sell it $2000 over clean NADA was the fact that I only put 45,000 miles on it in 8 years and it was in mint condition. Most Crew Cab long bed trucks are for people who work out of them and are beat to death. I luckily found the one buyer who had to have my truck.

Edited June 26, 2014 by 39BuickEight (see edit history)

[Guest my3buicks]

When your car sells it will sell for the amount soft tops sell for, if you include the top it will sell for what ones with yard tops sell for plain and simple. I have noticed the top it self can be hard to sell., I think you will get the best money for your car if you sell it with the top.

[Guest Leroyboy597]

When your car sells it will sell for the amount soft tops sell for, if you include the top it will sell for what ones with yard tops sell for plain and simple. I have noticed the top it self can be hard to sell., I think you will get the best money for your car if you sell it with the top.

These hard tops sell if they're either the exact color someone is looking for to match the color of their car or like the white and silver tops that look good on a variety of contrasting colors. Some Retro TBird owners have more than one top. The biggest problem is shipping. I belong to a TBird Club and if someone buys a top we do a hard top relay. I've participated in one, I met a guy just outside of Chicago, we took the top off his car and put it on mine, a couple days later I drove to a town in Ohio and met a guy and we put it on his TBird and I don't remember where he took it to, but it ended up on the east coast somewhere. It was a white top and I was glad to get it off my car, felt like I was driving a TBird police car.

[rocketraider]

And last night, after this discussion, I go by the Food Lion and there sits a gorgeous Thunderbird Blue 2002. When I came out its 60-something lady owner was getting in and she and I had a nice chat about the T-bird and her 65 Barracuda she's having restored. No, she wasn't interested in selling...

Looking at http://tbirdregistry.com/2002-2005-thunderbird-colors.aspx it's surprising you don't see the nicer colors more often, but I guess that in this area, dealers ordered only certain boring colors. Same as trying to find a 4WD pickup- for what I need a truck to do, I want a standard cab long bed. All you can find around here are cowboy Cadillacs, which are completely useless to me. I don't want a 4-door pickup with a near useless 5-1/2 foot bed, but apparently everybody else in the world does so that's all you find in both new and used vehicles.

Guess that's why there are so many boring gray and white cars of all stripes here.

[Guest Leroyboy597]

Bottom line is my 1 of 1 is a nice little Black Ford roadster with red and black leather seats, V-8 engine and dual exhausts. And I love it!

[wayne sheldon]

Okay, I have to say this.

Over many years in this hobby, I have seen way too many cars claimed as "the only one like it ever built" for way too many dumb reasons. About 40 years ago, I said it to someone for the first time. I have probably repeated it well over a hundred times.

"There were more only one like it ever built cars made than there were model T Fords made between 1908 and 1927. Actually, given all the many minor changes, cross-over manufacturing times for those changes, custom bodied delivery trucks, some speedsters (I am not counting the ones cut down later, only new chassis with after-market or professional-built bodies), plus the after-market accessories sold on new cars by the Ford dealer, at least a million of those only one like it when new cars WERE model T Fords!"

Now. I do not mean to insult anyone by all that. But frankly, nearly half the cars I have ever owned were probably the "only one like it ever built", or "the only one like it surviving" (although I am not about to bother trying to prove it). And none of them were anything really special. Not even the 1921 Sayers touring car (ever seen one?) or my one-off blacksmith-built ca 1900 gasoline carriage. The gasoline carriage is one about 400 "one-off" cars documented as built in a three year period, 1898 through1900. I have the list. A long-time good friend of mine had the only one surviving of two built 1927 Cadillac Fleetwood limousines. He sold it years ago to buy a 1926 Rolls Royce with a one-off custom body which he still has. Now. THAT is a car!!!

Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2

[Curti]

I have a 2006 Corvette all I have to do is plug the VIN number into the national database and it tells me that there is one other 2006 Corvette that came off the assembly line exactly like mine. Does that make them more valuable, I don't think so.

[Guest Leroyboy597]

I have a 2006 Corvette all I have to do is plug the VIN number into the national database and it tells me that there is one other 2006 Corvette that came off the assembly line exactly like mine. Does that make them more valuable, I don't think so.

Ok, So a featured and numbered car like the Neiman Marcus edition TBird, of witch only two hundred were produced is just another 2002 TBird as far as value is concerned. No other TBird had the combination of color interior or options these had, but there were two hundred of them, not just one.

[West Peterson]

I'd have to say yes to your question. 200 is a lot of cars. It was more than enough to flood the market so that everyone that wanted one of the last 200 Cadillac bicentennial convertibles in 1976, got one.

[Curti]

And how valuable are those 76 Caddy's today?

[Kimo]

The Neiman Marcus "edition" was just another option. The key number is how many T-birds in total - regardless of options - were built in 2002.

I am sure it is a very nice car and that you will have no problem selling it for a good price. The only challenges that I see in getting top dollar are the top issue, the fact that it is Evening Black and not the iconic Thunderbird Blue, and that what while these are some of the most attractively designed cars of the last decade they somehow designed for people of small or petite stature which leaves out a very large number of otherwise potential buyers.

[bhambulldog]

Bottom line is, an automobile worth is measured by what someone is willing to pay for it.

The fact that it was ordered with black wall tires and now has whitewalls may, or may not have weight in the value.

[Scooter Guy]

Perhaps it's stating the obvious here, but I think we've clouded the waters a bit...

Rare and desirable are two different things.

Yes, 1 of 1 is (obviously) rare. It doesn't really matter if you figure 1 of 1 based on paint color, radios, engines, etc., etc. I have two modern, daily driver cars that are 1 of 1 provided that I get far enough into the list of options and use them as the basis for my 1 of 1 claim.

1 of 1 being desirable is a whole different question. A car that is 1 of 1 might not be in demand at all or might not be in demand any more than the other 50,000 examples of a given car that are configured slightly differently.

This thread is really confusing the two terms. Yes, the car that is the subject of the original post is "rare" in a (I think) technical and extreme sense. Is it any more desirable than any other of the same make and model? I would say "no" just as most of the rest of you are saying.