63' Water pump...or worse

[DaveC6970]

Hello again,

After the 4GC carb rebuild our Riv has been getting driven more often, runs much better too. Thanks again for all the advice on that carb deal, but I think I may have another issue.

The water pump on my 401 has been making a bearing "growl" type noise for a little while now. When we returned home the last time we took the Riv out for a drive, it left a small puddle on the drive when I parked it at home. I thought that's probably the sign, the water pump is giving up. Upon inspection I see the inside of the water pump pulley is wet which leads me to think maybe I'm right. So I decided to jack her up and see if I could find more evidence of the leak. From the bottom side it sure looks to me like you can see a trail where coolant has been leaking from the pulley area. (check the pic's below) But while down there I noticed what looked to be an area leaking between the DR side cylinder head and the block. I hadn't noticed this before, it was kind of hidden by the alternator bracket from above but easy to spot when looking up from underneath. (pic's of this attached too) Now I'm thinking I may have a bigger job than just replacing the water pump, which I understand is bad enough. Am I seeing what I think I'm seeing, head gasket?

Thanks for your help, Dave

[DaveC6970]

Well, suspicions confirmed. I drove the Riv around the block today and sure enough the leak from behind the water pump pulley got much worse. It actually dripped enough that between the pulleys and the fan it proceeded to spray coolant around the engine compartment, good thing I didn't go too far.

I've been searching/reading all the old posts about removing the water pump, especially the bolts breaking part. Heat seems to be a preferred broken bolt removal method, along with some suggestions for penetrating oils, but there seems to be some debate about how useful the penetration stuff really is. Any chance I'll get lucky and they won't break? I do not have access to a real torch, would a smaller, household size, bottle type do any good? Once I do have it apart should I expect that the aluminum timing cover will need replaced as well? Also, what's the best way to go on the actual replacement pump? I've seen where you can send the original out for a rebuild, anybody spent the extra on a flowkooler? Sorry for so many questions, any advice would be appreciated. Thanks, Dave

[JanZverina]

Hi Dave,

I too heard that those bolts can break easily, so the water pump replacement is one job I took my '63 into the a shop for. They gently heated the bolts, and said that any penetrating oils simply don't get to where they need to go. I snapped the bolt on the thermo housing to the water manifold crossover, and had to take the entire assembly off to bring it to the shop. They immediately broke the second thermo housing bolt, but this was a case of penetrating oil reaching the threads since there was no bolt head(s) anymore. It took 72 hours of soaking before they could ease them out. Sorry, probably not what you want to hear, but paying a shop to do it may be cheaper in the long run.

[Bill Stoneberg]

When it goes together, use Anti-Seeze liberally on the threads. I just had to take mine apart after about 10 years.

I too broke bolts the first time, bit this time they came out easily. Manifold bolts too.

Map Gas, in the yellow bottle will get bolts hotter then the normal propane or whatwever it is in the blue bottles you buy at the big box stores.

Good Luck with ths task.

[1965rivgs]

Well, suspicions confirmed. I drove the Riv around the block today and sure enough the leak from behind the water pump pulley got much worse. It actually dripped enough that between the pulleys and the fan it proceeded to spray coolant around the engine compartment, good thing I didn't go too far.

I've been searching/reading all the old posts about removing the water pump, especially the bolts breaking part. Heat seems to be a preferred broken bolt removal method, along with some suggestions for penetrating oils, but there seems to be some debate about how useful the penetration stuff really is. Any chance I'll get lucky and they won't break? I do not have access to a real torch, would a smaller, household size, bottle type do any good? Once I do have it apart should I expect that the aluminum timing cover will need replaced as well? Also, what's the best way to go on the actual replacement pump? I've seen where you can send the original out for a rebuild, anybody spent the extra on a flowkooler? Sorry for so many questions, any advice would be appreciated. Thanks, Dave

Dave, The bolts seize in one of two places or both. They can seize due to corrosion between the bolt and the water pump housing or seize between the bolt threads and the timing cover housing...OR BOTH.

First, try to break the bolts loose using moderate force. If they dont break loose dont push it. This is the moment you may be creating more work than doing and possibly getting into timing cover removal/replacement.

Any heat/cooling cycles will help as the steel bolts and the surrounding aluminum components will stretch and shrink at different rates creating separation between the two. As mentioned, a MAP gas setup is cheap and available and should be part of any weekend mechanics tool inventory.

Keep in mind a penetrating solvent might get between the bolts and the water pump housing but will not likely penetrate into the area of the bolt threads and timing cover housing. To affect this area I hit the bolt heads with a small heavy hammer to shock the bolt thread/timing cover interface. Do this while the bolts are hot. To do this may require radiator removal depending on your skill level. Dont hit the radiator with the hammer.

Patience is the key here. You may need to go thru the heating/cooling and shock therapy cycles quite a few times before seeing any results. If in doubt, use more heat and a bigger hammer. Have fun,

Tom Mooney