Finding an Appropriate prewar blackwall tire

[alsancle]

I did some searches and I originally posted this as part of another discussion but realized it was probably not in the right place. I need to find a set of 600/650 18 inch blackwall tires for my 31 Royale.

There does not seem to be very many choices as I want an appropriate prewar tire tread. The best fit seems to be the Cocker Execlsior Radial. Thoughts?

1. Here are the tires on it now. Wrong tread pattern and I really don't like whitewalls.

2. This is what I wanted, the Coker Excelsior Comp V which I used on my Stutz. They are discontinued and not available. It looks like most vendors advertising them did not actually stock them and Coker shipped for them.

3. This is what Coker is pushing now as a replacement, Excelsior Stahl Sport Radial. I'm not sure about a radial and also not about the look?

4. I found this Lester blackwall but I do not like the modern tread pattern.

5. Here is the Dunlop B5 which is crazy expensive (400/tire). Again, smooth tread pattern.

[Restorer32]

If you show the car in AACA you would lose major points for radials but none for a modern tread pattern.

[West Peterson]

The Dunlop is also crazy ugly, as is the Lester.

[alsancle]

So you can see my problem. Radial is out, other 2 choices don't look right. The 18 is part of the problem, there are more choices in the 17 inch wheels.

[TerryB]

I applaud your choice of a blackwall tire. The use of whitewalls is way overdone in my humble opinion. Good luck in your search.

Terry

[West Peterson]

I think that was covered in comment #2 in the OP.

[alsancle]

Here is a Lucas tire I found, but it is a 700-18 so I don't think it will fit in the wheel wells. Universal does not seem to carry a 18.

[alsancle]

I love this but it is a 700-18 also. Bedford. Maybe I'll get one and see if it fits in the wheelwell.

[West Peterson]

Some people use a different size tire in the spare, but only if it can be covered to hide the difference in style.

[Dynaflash8]

Sorry West and Terry, but I don't want any cars in my garage with blackwall tires. My Dad's 39 Buick had double-sided whitewall tires on it when he bought it in 1941, and I remember them as a very small boy crawling around under the car. Then they wore out, the War was on and he uglied it up with blackwall tires. Actually, he didn't even like washing a car. My 2013 Dodge Charger has that ugly "european" look that all the youngsters like complete with blackwall tires and chrome wheels. If I could buy them in the right size it, too, would have whitewall tires. To me, whitewall tires in the correct size make a car. So, even though I know my friend West doesn't like them, and now my other friend Terry has chimed in, sorry fellows, you'll never get those ugly blackwalls on any of my old car....it's fitting too, 'cause I'm also OLD.

[Guest Skyking]

Dynaflash, I'm with you! Blackwalls only look good on muscle cars of the sixties along with red lines.

[GLong]

I've put many, many miles on the Bedford 7.00-18" tires. Smooth, strong, good wet traction. I have one that has had the misfortune to be driven flat when the cheap [supposedly the best available} chinese inner tubes split along their seams. Only enough to get to the side of the road from 55-60mph. This tire is still in use, no issues, but for a few marks on the sidewall from the wheel when run flat for a few hundred feet.

GLong

[alsancle]

The tubes can be a problem - I know. Where do you get yours now?

On the blackwall vs whitewall debate, to each his own. 95% of the cars manufactured prior to WWII came with blackwalls. But for me it is just an aesthetic preference. I'll be throwing the trippe lights in the trash along with tossing the accessory trunk. I just don't like doo-dads interfering with the original lines of the car. Dutch Darrin and I are kindred souls on this subject! However, those of you that like the whitewalls are certainly welcome to use them... Just not for me.

[GLong]

What I discovered with the tubes is that the correct size tube fills the tire, but when inflated, the drop center of the rim has to be filled by the tube, and in this area the tube stretched very thin. This was with plenty of talcum powder in the tire.

What has worked was to get a US Made TRUCK tire tube, at least 1/2" smaller rim size. So for a 17" rim, I use a 16.5" truck tube. This smaller tube is more difficult to work around, because it has a smaller inner diameter and is in the way a bit when installing the tire on the rim. Just pay attention to where everything is, and don't pinch the tube with tools.

The smaller inside diameter of the inner tube results in the drop center filling with the inner tube first then the much larger area of the tire is then filled with the tube as it inflates. The talcum powder works well to let the two rubber items to slide and not stick to each other. The thick truck tubes seem to hold up very well.

To install tires, I use almost exclusively my foot, and a rubber mallet to install tires on drop-center rims. I rarely chip paint using this method.

Also: the drop center rims usually have a 'band' or flap like a big rubber band covering the ends of the wire spokes or welds or rivets. These bands don't fit real well, and don't cover the sides of the drop-center, from the bead down to the bottom of the drop-center is exposed. A good paint job will smooth this surface, but there is a very good product to use instead of the flap or trying to get a good paint finish.

The product is PVC Tape. it is used in the HVAC industry, and is stretchy and strong, and can be installed around the compound curves of the drop-center. The PVC tape is made to work and stay strong and in place much higher temperatures than other types of tape. The PVC tape is available in 10mil and 20 mil thicknesses. It's surface is very slick, so an inner tube will slide over the drop-center wheel surfaces, and not get stuck or abraded by a rough wheel surface. Just install the tape when it's reasonably warm, like room temperature or above.. if it's 40-50* in your shop, it might be a bit stiff to work with.

Hope this helps

GLong

[cahartley]

Have you checked out Lucas? >>> http://www.lucasclassictires.com/searchquick-submit.sc?keywords=600%2F650+18

[alsancle]

Yes, I did check out Lucas. They carry the Bedford which I'm leaning towards. I'm just worried about the width. They carry this 550 but it is probably too small:

A friend sent me this picture of Firestones that look like 700s. These would be great too if they are still available.

[alsancle]

I found the Firestones on Coker's website (700-18) but I'm not sure they still carry them. I was told that only the radial was available as a 18 inch blackwall.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]251525[/ATTACH]

[cahartley]

Yes, I did check out Lucas. They carry the Bedford which I'm leaning towards. I'm just worried about the width. They carry this 550 but it is probably too small:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]251523[/ATTACH]

A friend sent me this picture of Firestones that look like 700s. These would be great too if they are still available.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]251524[/ATTACH]

Call Lucas and ask......great folks!.......

[Dynaflash8]

alsancle I like the Tripps too, if I could afford them. I have one pair that I've moved from car to car as some left the stable. My father found them under the front porch of an abandoned farmhouse. As for the trunk, I love them on any car they could be put on. My favorite car that I've seen with one is a 1936 Dodge coupe from the midwest that has a rumble seat, dual sidemounts, a radio and a luggage rack with a trunk mounted on it. All of that stuff came with that car from the dealer, and the car is a low mileage car. It is a car I would love to have as well, even though Dodge is not necessarily on my radar screen....still every time in comes and shows in HPOF when I'm in attendance I go nuts over that car and take a dozen pictures all over again. I think the car must have been a dealer showroom car. The owner is an AACA judge from Missouri. By the way, the car is black with white sidewall tires.

Edited June 5, 2014 by Dynaflash8 (see edit history)

[richasco]

I like the look of the tread on the Firestones, it's more inline with what would have come on the car originally. Also last month I turned my whitewalls to the inside and I am very glad I did, check my photo album to see the before and after.

Edited June 5, 2014 by richasco (see edit history)

[TexRiv_63]

I found the Firestones on Coker's website (700-18) but I'm not sure they still carry them. I was told that only the radial was available as a 18 inch blackwall.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]251525[/ATTACH]

Those are also available at Universal if they will fit: https://www.universaltire.com/firestone-tires/firestone-vintage-bias-ply-tires/700-18-firestone-blackwall.html

[alsancle]

Those are also available at Universal if they will fit: https://www.universaltire.com/firestone-tires/firestone-vintage-bias-ply-tires/700-18-firestone-blackwall.html

Yes, thanks. I think I will order a single tire and see if it will fit in the wheel-well. It looks like there are a couple of good choices in the 700-18 just none in the 600/650.

My dad put white walls on every single car he owned (including the Eldorado daily drivers - think Huggy Bear) so I grew up surrounded by them. Sometime in my late teens I turned and started lobbying for the blackwalls. He was a big trippe light - trunk guy too. I've been turning him to my viewpoint gradually .

[West Peterson]

I tell everyone to get their inner tubes at their local tire store that handles truck tires. Firestone is where I got mine. It's amazing the difference in thickness between those and the ones you get from the vintage tire specialists.

[Curti]

AJ, my personal opinion are the diamond treads. The tread pattern is of the era. And as you know, I hate whitewalls!

[Steve_Mack_CT]

A.J. - assuming you are not keeping the bright spare tire covers? Anyway, I know a few guys that have had success with keeping the spares in sidemount wells underinflated, if close you may want to go that route.

The Bedfords would look really nice on that car. Is it home yet?

[alsancle]

West - good tip on the tubes. I have fought with tubes in the past. Curt - I always knew you had good taste.

Not yet Steve, sometime this month. I have gone the under/not inflated root with sidemounts that have full tire covers. If you have full covers it is impossible to get them out anyways. I know my dad's 35 Packard has the sidemounts with a spare in the trunk. I guess the ones in the fender are for show. I have seen the Royale's with just the chrome/painted outer cover and with full covers. If I go with anything I would probably go with full covers in body color. For now I just might go with nothing.