carlisle1926 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Also the exhaust and intake ports are smaller on a 216 and eraly 235's, so the intake and exhaust manifolds will not fit properly if placed on a full pressure 235. The distributor & cap, carburetor, and water pump pulley are different from a later 235 too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlisle1926 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) Here is a sure fire sign of a splash oiled 216 or 235. This is the little plate I was talking about. If your engine has this small plate with three screws on the driver's side of the block like the one in the picture, then the connecting rods are splash oiled. Your 235 will have insert type bearings like the later engines, but it will only run at about 15lbs of oil pressure at full throttle, unlike the later 235 engines that will run at about 45lbs of pressure. You said that when you looked up the numbers on your engine that it listed it as with "Hydrovac". A Hydrovac is a vacuum operated power brake booster that pulls vacuum from the intake manifold. Big trucks used Hydrovacs. Edited February 25, 2014 by carlisle1926 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1987 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I have to say I am amazed at the speed, informativeness, and kindness you all respond with. Thank you sooo much! My biggest concern is the rebuild-ability of my engine, and from what I understand, mine (a splash-oiled 235) has inserted bearing that can be replaced (thanks, carlisle), whereas a 216 would have had poured in babbitt bearings that could not be? is my engine common? and I wonder why/how it got paired with a manual transmission. Maybe someone a long time ago killed the 216 and another car with a 2 speed auto and a 235 had its tranny killed and now the 235 is in mine. However, my "H" engine code indicates 1950, right?D Yaros thanks for the heads up about the gasket! I am used to rubber gaskets haha I forget old ones fall apart.AdW13... that is SOOOO cool that that car has been in your family so long! I hope it turns out exactly the way you want with little or no trouble!As for me... my hope is to baby this thing (i baby all my cars - even the 2010 Camry) with constant fluid checks, frequent oil changes, and low RPS and cruise around many thousands of miles going under 55mph most of the time. I hope thats do-able. Cause I love it. Someday, I may love a 1954 210 more. Or a 53 olds 88 rocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1987 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Oh and carlisle... the other number I photographed before I left for work today is near the carburetor on the block and says "3835499 GM 6" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlisle1926 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) Oh and carlisle... the other number I photographed before I left for work today is near the carburetor on the block and says "3835499 GM 6"That number tells me its an early 235 head. The date code on the block should look something like this one. It will be down by the starter just behind the distributor like the one in the photo. What does your engine read there? The date code on this one is K 21 6. K= 11th letter in the alphabet, so November is the month 21= 21st of Nov 6= 1956 Edited February 24, 2014 by carlisle1926 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1987 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 That I'll have to check When I get home tonight. So either way, being that I have this oil-splash 235, I do have replaceable bearings though, right?? unlike 216 babbitt style? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 For what it's worth, I used to drive a '65 Valiant with 225 Slant 6 as a daily driver back when unleaded gas was phased in. After 60,000 or so miles compression was down to the point of not running anymore. Pulled the head and all of the valve seats were recessed badly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ojh Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 That number tells me its an early 235 head. The date code on the block should look something like this one. It will be down by the starter just behind the distributor like the one in the photo. What does your engine read there? The date code on this one is K 21 6. K= 11th letter in the alphabet, so November is the month 21= 21st of Nov 6= 1956You have posted some very informative materials, esp about the rockers. Thanks. Is the 'I' counted in your month rendering? I thought the 'I' is omitted because it can be mistaken for a '1' - that would make 'K' the 10th month. Anybody confirm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Splash oiled, babbitt bearing Chevs are not unreliable if you baby them. Over revving will quickly destroy the bearings. So, if you puppy it around town and do not exceed 50 - 55 on the hiway it should last for years. Drive it hard and life will be measured in weeks, or possibly minutes. Back when these were common used cars, I saw kids buy good running ones and blow them sky high by driving them hard. But old ladies and grannies drove them for years with no problems, even though they made every driving mistake in the book (except going fast).Here is a trick for putting in valve cover gaskets, works on all cars with cork gaskets. First of all be sure the cover is straight, the edges straight. If it has bolt holes along the edge (yours don't) be sure the bolt holes are not dimpled. Clean off the old gasket. Put a small bead of silicone around the edge of the cover and stick the gasket in place. Press the cover with gasket onto a flat surface so the gasket is flat. Let it dry while you finish setting the valves. When you go to install the gasket put a film of oil or grease on it. This will prevent it sticking to the head.When you install the valve cover, tighten it snug but do not over tighten. If you have to take the valve cover off it will come off without tearing the gasket and can be reused. Eventually it will get dried out and hard, and have to be replaced. I used to do this with VW beetles that had to have the valves adjusted every 4000 miles and a gasket would last for 3 valve adjustments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlisle1926 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 You have posted some very informative materials, esp about the rockers. Thanks. Is the 'I' counted in your month rendering? I thought the 'I' is omitted because it can be mistaken for a '1' - that would make 'K' the 10th month. Anybody confirm?You could be right about the "I" being omitted in the month code, but I have never heard that before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1987 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Rusty - thanks for that. One think makes me nervous - the old owner said he drove it like 290 miles away and back like 2 or 3 times, and said "it didnt feel strained at 60-65." I told him he was insane and that was the rough equivalent of my driving 290 miles in my camry at 130 miles per hour. I hope he didnt damage it. I drove it and it seems fine... no lack of power but i babied it (and always intend to). I have not had a chance to get used driving this (lets not forget the next oldest car I ever owned was a 1991) but i cant imagine i'd ever want to go over 45.But even though I have a splash oiled 235, isnt the babbitt bearing system only in the 216? dont I have regular bearings? that can be replaced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlisle1926 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 You do have replaceable shell bearings in your engine. I've only worked on two of these early 235s, and they both had replaceable bearings. My advice is just to baby the engine along because over revving can certainly throw a rod. I would look for a later model 235 and rebuild it or find one on Craigslist that was recently rebuilt and pulled out of a car being hot rodded. The 1954 -1962 truck 235s will work in your car as well. They started making a 261 in 1954 for 2 ton trucks and buses that looks exactly like a 235. That one will also bolt right in. Here is another tip to further confuse things. Your car if it came from the factory with a 3 speed column shift transmission, will have a 3.92 or 4.11 rear end gear ratio and a 216 engine. The power glide cars came with a 3.55 rear axle and the low pressure 235 like you have. I had a 54 4 door once that the Powerglide blew up in. I hated the Powerglide, so I removed it and replaced it with a 3 speed column shift system. When I drove the car, I noticed that my speedometer was way off and I was flying down the highway. That is when I learned that the Powerglide car's rear axles had 3.55 gears to compensate for the Powerglide tailshafts turning at slightly less than at a 1 to 1 ratio like a standard shift transmission. It made it so my 54 was turning a lot less r.p.m.'s to achieve the same speeds. So, if you want to make your car go faster at less rpm's, replace the axle with one out of a powerglide car! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlisle1926 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 The issue with splash oiled engines isn't if they have poured babbit bearings or shell type insert bearings. The problem with the splash oil system, is that the oil can not circulate fast enough to create a proper cushion between the rod and the crankshaft. The bearings will run dry at high rpm's, creating severe friction, bearing failure, and then POW, there goes a rod. The full flowing oil pressure system has little passage ways drilled throughout the crankshaft, like a pipeline that blows oil between the crankshaft journals and the main and connecting rod bearings, at roughly 45lbs at speed and at about 20lbs at idle. That is what makes the later 235 engines superior. If the 216 had just had full oil pressure instead of the splash oil garbage, then the poured babbit bearings wouldn't be a big deal at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1987 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 That gear trick sounds great - ill have to keep that in mind! Also, there is an app on my phone that tells me my propper speed, so we will have to see how accurate mine is. so anyway, this means that I am no better off with my 235 than if I had the 216?And what are your thoughts about the old owner driving it so far so fast? you think he ruined anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlisle1926 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 (edited) Unless the engine is knocking now, I wouldn't worry to much about the previous owner driving that fast. Yes, since your 235 is essentially a glorified 216, you are no better off. It will have a bit more horsepower over the 216. When your current 235 goes bad, then I would be looking for a 1954 or so 235 to replace it. Your 235 engine should be around 105 hp and the original 216 would have been around 90hp. A 1954 powerglide engine put out 125hp and by 1957 they were turning out closer to 140hp. Edited February 25, 2014 by carlisle1926 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdW13 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I bet the PO driving that trip was harder on the frontend than motor....from what I undersrand you are supposed to grease all the fittings often....and there are a lot of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1987 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 No knocking. But being the first car I've ever owned without an OBDI or OBDII port under the dash, it does make some sounds and do some things I have to get used to And about them fittings that need to be lubed... I'm sure I can get a regular Greece gun at like harbor frieght or autoZone and do them, right? Any special kind of Greece? I'm sure thier location is inthe manual. She didn't squeek at all in and out of my insane driveway or over bumps in the road so I think the old owner was careful to have it done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1987 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 So Carlisle... You think it wouldnt be worth rebuildin the one she's got in there to keep 1950 with 1950? Even more so if it's "numbers matching?" Can't be that hard to rebuild for someone that had a lot of time and no money. I'm used to new stuff which is much harder. But haven't done much internal stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdW13 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 You could be right about the "I" being omitted in the month code, but I have never heard that before.My 51 was jj... at least as far as I recall. My title had the motor number for vin. But it was also listed as the motor number on the paperwork from 1956 when it came into my family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdW13 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 You could be right about the "I" being omitted in the month code, but I have never heard that before.So Carlisle... You think it wouldnt be worth rebuildin the one she's got in there to keep 1950 with 1950? Even more so if it's "numbers matching?" Can't be that hard to rebuild for someone that had a lot of time and no money. I'm used to new stuff which is much harder. But haven't done much internal stuffIt wouldnt be numbers matching if it wasnt the motor that came in the car. These are NOT CHEAP to rebuild. Even the rebuild kits are expensive compared to the common small block chevy. When I was reading about mine (has to have babbit bearings poured or machined for inserts so yours will b e less) was 2500 to 3500 even with the owner doing the assembly . I got the spare 216 in a deal with a55 dodge but he was only asking a hundred bucks. Hopefully you can find a 235 cheap too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1987 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Yikes! Well forget matching then. I paid $2500 for the whole car. I am aware that that is a good deal... Well I guess lets hope that it lasts. I plan to put a couple thousand miles per year on it. By the way Carlisle, if when I do need a motor, would I be nuts to put a small block in it? Would it fit in easily and bolt up to my trans? I think its a 4 bolt main, are they all the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlisle1926 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 A small block won't bolt right up at all! The exhaust manifolds on a v8 hit the steering gear box and usually there has to be some cutting on the firewall braces. The bell housing is completely different too. Its a LOT easier to put a later 235 in it. The early style valve cover can even be mounted on a later 235 to make the engine look older and correct in your car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Chevrolet made basically the same motor (216 and 235) from 1937 until 1962. About 1951 - 1953 they modernized it with full pressure oiling, insert bearings and aluminum pistons BUT they did not do it all at once.When they introduced the Powerglide automatic they made an improved engine to go with it. So for a few years they made both kinds. By 1953 or 54 all Chevs got the improved engine even the standard shift. The two engines are alike and interchangeable. Over the years a lot of older Chevs got the improved engine when the old one wore out so, you could have the improved engine. In that case 60 - 65 MPH is no problem.Or, if its the old babbitt pounder, they will go 60 - 65 MPH they just won't do it for long. Maybe they would when they were new but they won't anymore, for the same reason granny can't jump up and do the boogaloo the way she did in the sixties.Best get the serial number and find out for sure which you have. In any case, the Chev was never built for speed, the flathead V8 Ford was the speed king in those days, Chevs were family cars for guys who liked to take it easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 (edited) It is possible to put a V8 in but not easy. Unlike the 55 up Chevs, it was never meant to have a V8. The best and easiest swap is the 261 cu in six used in GMC trucks 1954 - 61 and Canadian Pontiacs 1955 - 62. It is a straight bolt in swap and looks almost stock. The 261 is a powerful engine and will outperform a stock 283 V8 up to 40 MPH.Another good choice is the 235 used in Chevs up to 62 with full pressure oiling, aluminum pistons and insert bearings.If the rod isn't sticking thru the block they are not a hard engine to rebuild. All parts are available and they are not expensive. A rebuilt 235 would probably be better and cheaper than a V8 swap. Edited February 25, 2014 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Yes you can grease the chassis with an ordinary grease gun. Do yourself a favor and get a good grease gun from an auto parts store, they are not expensive and the cheap ones just make you mad. I like to have 2, one with a steel pipe and one with a flexible hose for hard to reach spots.Get a diagram or repair manual if you can. There are 20 or 30 places that need greasing every 1000 miles in the front suspension, and other places. There may even be a grease nipple on the emergency brake cable.If you follow the owner's manual or factory recommendations for service your car should have a long trouble free life. The servicing does not have to cost a lot of money if you do it yourself.PS in the above post I was referring to the newer, insert bearing engines as being cheap to rebuild. The earlier babbitt bearing jobs require a specialist to make and fit the bearings by hand, and this costs a lot of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdW13 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 You could be right about the "I" being omitted in the month code, but I have never heard that before.Does your car have an open driveline? I sure wouldn't change it. The only way I woould go besides stock, though is an LS motor.....I see them in these and like that setup. I think half the fun will be driving somethng that feels like it is from the fifties.That manual I linked to shows where to lube everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlisle1926 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Chevrolet made basically the same motor (216 and 235) from 1937 until 1962. About 1951 - 1953 they modernized it with full pressure oiling, insert bearings and aluminum pistons BUT they did not do it all at once.Best get the serial number and find out for sure which you have. In any case, the Chev was never built for speed, the flathead V8 Ford was the speed king in those days, Chevs were family cars for guys who liked to take it easy.Its been determined that he has an early splash oiled 235. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1987 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Yea Carlisle posted a pic of a purple motor with a little plate on the block held in by 3 screws. That is 100% indicator of splash oiled. As is the H (indicates 1950 year) on my block. Now not to be thick headed, but wouldn't mine be less expensive to rebuild cause it has insert bearings? Less than a 216 but maybe a little more than an oil pumped 235?Just to be straight, I want her to stay the way she is forever. The advice about a slightly more modern 235 is worth it's weight in Gold, and definitely the way I will go if i have to. My small block question was cause I figured it would be most availible and cheapest. But NO cutting. I am aware also that for only $1200 I can go Mustang II And for like $14-1500 have mustang 2 and power steering, but I don't want it. I like her the way she is. I am 26 years old so the idea of going back to the fifties as much as possible, if only once in a while, is awesome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1987 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I am looking forward to learning about looping the chassis… I've always heard my grandparents say "oil change and lube job" but the lube job part never applied to a car I've owned… The oldest car I've owned other than Ness is a 1991. No lube job. Oil change only. Some modern cars, like the first-generation Ford Explorer, and body on frame forwards and Chevys caprice and grand Marquis from modern years have shown me why it's important to lubed the chassis when they go around squeaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 The modern, sealed for life ball joints and tie rod ends came in about 1961 or 62. Before that, everything was exposed to air, dirt, water and mud. So you had to put in fresh grease regularly or they would rust up and wear out.You will need to find each grease nipple, wipe it clean with a rag, and pump in fresh grease until you see it squish out from around the joint. If it has not been greased regularly, you may find some fittings will not take grease. In that case you should replace the grease fitting. You can buy replacement fittings at any auto parts store. Just unscrew the old one and put in a new one. If it still won't take grease you may need to heat up the joint with an acetylene torch or propane torch. Once you get it to take grease you will have no more trouble as long as you grease it regularly.Every moving part in the front suspension has a grease fitting. Also, I think your car has lever action shock absorbers. They must be filled with oil from time to time. There is a plug on top that unscrews. Brush and wipe away any dirt, take off the plug and fill with hydraulic jack oil. Chev used to sell special fluid called "knee action fluid" but it has not been available for many years.You may want to have the front end checked and an alignment done. I know guys that have had this done and it transformed the car. It took away all desire for power steering or a front suspension swap. They are a real nice driving, easy steering car when everything is working right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 One thing about the babbitt bearings, they can be adjusted. If a bearing is slightly worn and starts to knock, a good mechanic can take off the pan, remove the bearing, scrape it smooth and shim it for the correct fit. This used to be standard practice but I don't know where you would find a mechanic who knows how to do it anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdW13 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 If the steering has slop, there is a great thread on chevytalk about rebuilding the frontend. It is a sticky at the top of the 49-54 forum...lots of good info and pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1987 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Great info! Thanks! I will get a Greece gone and check the manual for where to use it. I did just find an shop that does alignments on classic cars. It's not far from me. He said he would do an alignment but check if anything needed replacement and show me what/where. I'll check out that thread first to avoid wasting a trip. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlisle1926 Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Great info! Thanks! I will get a Greece gone and check the manual for where to use it. I did just find an shop that does alignments on classic cars. It's not far from me. He said he would do an alignment but check if anything needed replacement and show me what/where. I'll check out that thread first to avoid wasting a trip. Thanks! American grease guns work just as good as the ones in Greece, so there is no need to get one from Greece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1987 Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Ha! Funny. Greece is a suburb of Rochester near where I live. My phone autocorrects odd like that often. I will be are to get an American one but I have a sneaking suspicion it not really be American Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1987 Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 (edited) I went on eBay and found a bunch of speedometer assemblies just like mine for a good reference of the back of one too see about a lightbulb. There wasn't any obvious info, disnt appear to even be one. The radio lights up, but makes no sound. This is whole nother issue with which (witch haha) I don't know where to start Edited February 26, 2014 by 1987 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 (edited) About the radio. It is a tube type that requires 400 volts AC. You have a vibrator that turns 6 volts DC to 400 volts AC. If it is not working the radio won't work.Other than that, the radio is pretty simple and all parts are available.There are old time radio guys who can repair or rebuild it. One online source quotes $325 for a complete rebuild of one like yours. It is the same as a tube radio for your house, except for the vibrator. So, you may be able to get it fixed locally if you can find a guy. You will have to take the radio out and take it to him.There are NOS vibrators available but you can also get a transistor replacement. If the vibrator is working you will hear it hum while the radio is on. No hum, no vibrator. The transistor ones have no hum. By the way, it takes old radios a minute or 2 to warm up. If it was working you would not know until it was on for a minute.The big down fall is the old wax paper capacitors. They have a half life of 10 years. Most of them are probably shot by now. They can be replaced by modern mylar capacitors which will last for 50 years. New capacitors cost from 25 cents to a buck, and there are about 20 of them. There are also about 5 tubes which are easy to get and cost about $5 bucks. It's usually not the tubes, they are pretty long lived.The dash board bulbs go in sockets that snap into holes. If you can reach up behind the dash you may be able to pull them out. They are probably good and stuck after all these years. You may have to lay on your neck to see up in there, and pry them out with a small screwdriver.Bulbs are available, you must get the right size, they use various sizes even in the same car, to get the lighting even. Edited February 26, 2014 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 (edited) Ha ha Greece. Wait till they find out there is a town called Chili (pronounced Chye Lye) Edited February 26, 2014 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1987 Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Rusty... are you in rochester?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 (edited) 60 miles north of Rochester. On a clear night I can see the lights of Rochester glowing on the skyline. Edited February 28, 2014 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now