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65 waterpump and crossover.....Q.


onedesertdog
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Hi All,

Water spews from the o-ring of the crossover pipe on the Super Wildcat at start-up, then quits when it gets warm.

When I'm replacing that, the water pump appears to be original so I'm going to place that also. I will be reading the manual, but is there anything or any tips that might help me, or something I should be aware of?

Thanks,

Buddy

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Buddy,

Be very careful when removing the 1/4 inch bolts in the water pump. The Al water pump housing has a tendency to weld to the bolts causing them to break. They also like to weld themselves into the timing cover. I usually give them a sharp rap with a hammer and use heat/heating cooling cycles to free them up. Good luck, wise choice, cheap insurance,

Tom Mooney

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Tom is right on the money about the heat cycles. That did the trick for me when i took mine off. I used lots of penetrant in between heat cycles. I would also recommend that you reassemble use a antisieze grease, new grdae 5 hardware, torque to specs and have a fire extinguisher nearby when applying heat,assuming you use a torch of some kind.

suerte

arnulfo

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Yes the water pump did come with the oring and gasket. I got the aluminum one from russ martin.If your water pump is original and has no broken parts off the main body, i would hold on to it.I was glad i had the extinguisher. I had a fire start on mine when i was doing the heat cycles. Burnt a couple of wires and got some of the white powder from the extinguisher in the carb. No big deal to fix but it could have gotten real ugly had i not had the extinguisher handy.

arnulfo

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Question. Would it make sense to reassemble the water pump to the front cover using aluminum bolts?

No. Because you will still have the dissimilar metals problem between the aluminum WP and timing cover and the cast iron block. You need those bolts to be strong enough to withstand the torque to remove them next time. Aluminum bolts would shear right off.

Anti-seize on the bolts is good, not just on the threads but on the entire body of the bolt. Keep your anti-freeze fresh for maximum corrosion protection.

I think I might have assembled mine with stainless steel bolts last time I had it apart, as an experiment. I don't remember.

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I experienced broken water pump bolts on Buicks from about 1965 until maybe 2003. I have a spare timing cover hanging on the garage wall. Now this is no kidding. About 2003 I helped out a woman who needed someone to take care of her transportation problem. I did and she appreciatively wished me good luck and success. A short time after I bought a '65 Electra and the pump leaked. Expecting the worst, I was shocked when the 1/4-20 bolts just spun out. Then the pump on my '60 failed. Again, the bolts came out with ease. It was either Murphy or my friend. Murphy says if you have a spare you will never need it. My friend was very sincere in her gratitude. Whichever, I'm keeping the spare and trying my best to help other people, but reaching a point in life where Buick water pump bolts don't break? Who could imagine!

Bernie

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Someone forgot to tell the guys on the engine assembly line about the anti-sieze.

Bernie

^

What Bernie said......

I thought I made it. Soaking with PB, heat/cool/heat etc. Got all but one. Snapped it like a green bean. Just barely tweaked it and snap....Small lower one to the right of the guide pin.

I am bummed, and picked a fine time to quit drinking...... Anyone faced this and was able to drill it out without removing the Timing cover? Any words of encouragement.....

Thanks,

Buddy

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Encouragement- go to a refrigeration supply house and buy a tube of Leak-Loc. Coat the surfaces liberally, install the pump, and let it sit over night before putting coolant in. You'll be OK.

If the drinking urge continues, the 430 does not have the same water pump problem. Here's the 430 I had in 1974. Mix one '68 Riviera, Genesee Cream Ale, and a telephone pole:

Oct23ea.jpgBernie

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Easiest way to fix that would be to take the timing chain cover off.but assuming you don't want to go that route, there should still be enough of the bolt protruding so that you can grab it with vise grips. Prior to doing that give it a couple more blasts of penetrant and another heat cycle. DO NOT TOO MUCH TORQUE ON THE STUB! You don't want to risk breaking it off . If it does not give on the first try, repeat the process. Eventually it will give. Another method I have used is right after you have applied the heat, try and cool down the bolt only as best you can.what this does is the bolt contacts while the aluminum stays expanded. This method work for me on occasion with my Harley's.

suerte,

arnulfo

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[quote name=I thought I made it. Soaking with PB, heat/cool/heat etc. Got all but one. Snapped it like a green bean. Just barely tweaked it and snap....Small lower one to the right of the guide pin.

I am bummed, and picked a fine time to quit drinking...... Anyone faced this and was able to drill it out without removing the Timing cover? Any words of encouragement.....

Thanks,

Buddy

Drilling 1/4" bolts out with cover on the engine carries some risk vs having the cover clamped to a drill press table. Most important is getting the drill started perfectly centered then holding it exactly perpendicular while drilling and this is not easy to do free hand even with experience. The most common mistake made here is people do not realize how easy the drill can track off center to the softer aluminum and when that happens the problem worsens. So be very careful if you attempt to drill it out on the car. Start with a smaller bit (new) like 3/32 and do whatever it takes to insure you get a well located center punch made. As long as you stay centered if necessary you can always use a helicoil to repair the threads if they are damaged once remnants of the bolt are removed.

Edited by JZRIV (see edit history)
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I'm not too keen on trying to bend over and down drilling a level hole in a 1/4 bolt. Since I'm waiting on the parts anyway, I'm going to try Bernie's suggestion of the Leak Lock and see if I can find some locally here in Po-Dunk.......I Think. No meat on the broken bolt to get a grip of any kind. All in all, the 49 y.o. water pump was very hard to turn by hand. Course, the gasket under the crossover looked good too, but leaked like a sieve...

I appreciate all the help

Buddy

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LMBO.......

Once you cross the Mississippi River, it's hard to find stores in Podunk that carry Leak-Lock....

I went to two a/c places, every napa, autozone, in Podunk and they laughed almost as hard as when I was looking for a Dwell meter.

I'm ordering it from e-bray...

We'll see how it works out,

Buddy

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Leak Lock is a refrigeration supply house product. You won't find it in an auto parts store. You might have to find it online or take a trip to a city. Maybe a service company that takes care of grocery stores might part with a tube.

Here it is on Google: https://www.google.com/#q=leak+lock&tbm=shop

Podunk is 5 miles away from me in the suburbs of a village of about 5,000. Yeah, suburbs, and I live in New York.

Bernie

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Just got a "jewel" of a'63 Riv, one owner, with less than 25,000 mi but has been in storage for 38 years. Water pump seems OK but I've not run it long enough to get it hot, hot but there is no evidence of coolant leakage that I can see. Need advice; I will have the radiator tested and possibly repaired so while it's out should I replace water pump and cross over? What is recommendation for brand of water pump with best reliability. Many years ago my dad taught me to add a Barsleak water pump lubricant product (small bottle of dark brown liquid with little pellets in the bottom) to antifreeze- coolant while system was hot. Kept the old water pumps lubricated and I never had a problem with any cars I'd added it to. Anyone recommend this addition and what is the current best product? I'll be replacing all hoses and clamps and want to do the best to re-new system.

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I use the water pump lube myself.

If you haven't removed the radiator, pressure test the system to about 15# cold and look things over thoroughly. Then bring the car up to operating temperature and test again.

That will give you an idea of gasket, seal, and soft plug condition.

38 years is a long time. Was there coolant in the car the whole time? If not, I would give it a few good flushes and pressurize again. If the radiator was empty the whole time it will probably need replacing. If full it may be OK.

I would buy a spare water pump, but just keep it on hand. Murphy's Law will be on your side there.

Bernie

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If it is only one bolt it should work out fine. Leak Loc is easy to find in Podunk. I was over there with my '60 not long ago:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]234317[/ATTACH] Bernie

Good news(so far). Got my order of Leak Lock. Installed the water pump/crossover ,etc.Let set overnight.

Installed new coolant and water pump lube. Drove it twice for about 20 miles each time. NO LEAKS......

I'm hoping the leak lock does the trick and doesn't weaken or something when the temps get up to 110, or going up to the mountains.

Thanks all for the suggestions and help.

Buddy

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