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Odd color combination found


Barney Eaton

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During this cold weather I have been working on the 1990 Reatta list loaned to me by Larry Gustin. I am doing clean up and tonight I found a Driftwood coupe with red interior. It is 1G4EC13C4LB903541, I didn't write down the dealer that got the car but will look that up tomorrow.

That would be a great combination to see how it works.... The order form only showed Tan interior available with Driftwood.

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I have been doing some playing on compnine in the past month and I had also discovered last week that they made 4 driftwood/burgundy cars. One with a sunroof.

I've also found 17 '90 Maui/grey convertibles. Compnine also only lists 100 polo green coupes. Not 120.

Also 4 Maui Blue/Tan 1990s.

Two convertibles, two coupes. One with a sunroof.

The driftwood/burgundy cars are shown with a D60 trim over ride code. There are 436 Reattas in '90 equipped with this code. The driftwood/burg, and Maui tan both have them, but that's only 8 cars.

Deductive reasoning would say that there must have been some cars painted off standard colors from the factory (Pearl white for example)

There must be something that's missing here.

I'll be talking with Compnine this week to see if I can get a list of all the D60 cars.

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Guest my3buicks

I would really like Maui Blue with tan or grey, not a fan of the blue interior especially when paired with an entirely different hue of Maui Blue.

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Guest Kitskaboodle

You want to see a really odd interior color combination ? This one is rather puzzling. If interested I can provide a pic from my iPhone. Just need someone to send the pic to for posting. :). Kit

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I have not sorted the database yet, but in a manual mode 903541 is the only Driftwood/Burgundy that I found, it went to Flemington Buick/Chevy in Flemington NJ

The last 205 cars built in 1990 were all red, 94 coupes, 111 convertibles, out of the 205 all had tan interior except for 2 with red/burgundy interior, 8 with gray.

March, it appears there were more red cars with red interior built than we thought, those would also be a color override code D60.

You also must be cautious with Compnine's calculations, they show different total (per year) build number than Buick shows.

Edited by Barney Eaton (see edit history)
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I have not sorted the database yet, but in a manual mode 903541 is the only Driftwood/Burgundy that I found, it went to Flemington Buick/Chevy in Flemington NJ

The last 205 cars built in 1990 were all red, 94 coupes, 111 convertibles, out of the 205 all had tan interior except for 2 with red/burgundy interior, 8 with gray.

March, it appears there were more red cars with red interior built than we thought, those would also be a color override code D60.

You also must be cautious with Compnine's calculations, they show different total (per year) build number than Buick shows.

1) my name is spelled Marck. Not March.

2) there were quite a few red/burgundy cars built. I have probably 20 customers with cars in that combination.

However, I doubt there were 400 of them made.

Compline gets their data straight from GM. I trust them as a third party with no skin in the game shall we say.

Yes they show a different number, but is it really different from GM since that is where they got their data? Or is it just different from your data?

If you'd like to send me the list you have, I have subscribed to the highest-level Compnine account and can run some though to see how they add up. I can also sort all the information just like I did for you on the '88s and make everything usable in matter of minutes.

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To the moderators.....this is NOT another post about Polo Green convertibles.

Addressing the 1991 Polo Green coupes that were built. This would be good opportunity to get a consensus on the number built. Since Marck has access to Compnine he could confirm the cars I am listing below are all Polo Green. These cars are listed on the Reatta database (www.reatta.net) feel free to review and count.

1991 Green Reatta coupes

post-30596-143142381642_thumb.jpg

Edited by Barney Eaton (see edit history)
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To the moderators.....this is NOT another post about Polo Green convertibles.

Addressing the 1991 Polo Green coupes that were built. This would be good opportunity to get a consensus on the number built. Since Marck has access to Compnine he could confirm the cars I am listing below are all Polo Green. These cars are listed on the Reatta database (www.reatta.net) feel free to review and count.

1991 Green Reatta coupes

[ATTACH=CONFIG]233736[/ATTACH]

I'm more than glad to run all of the VINs you listed. Would you mind emailing me the complete vin numbers so I don't have to guess the check digits?

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I think this picture fits the thread name very well.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]233839[/ATTACH]

That car met its demise at the Stockton, Ca Pick-N-Pull last year. I think Kit drove over and saw it at the yard. (I was tempted, but just didn't have time.)

I didn't think Kit grabbed any parts from it. But come to think of it, it has been a couple of months since I've seen Kits car....

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest my3buicks

Marck, any update on the verification of 1991 Polo Green coupes through your high level Compnine account? Would be nice to lay this one to rest once and for all.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I signed up for a Compnine temp account before I bought my 91 Polo green coupe #1429 and it matched for the most part. I'd have to go back to review, but from what I can recollect, Compnine did not show that the trim was also painted. Makes sense the trim is painted but then I guess it could have been done afterwards too. If Compnine can generate a list of options based upon vin numbers, I'd be surprised but it'd surely make paying for the service worthwhile.

Correct me if I'm wrong here Barney, but didn't you start your database with data supplied directly from GM? Not that you can go back to the same people now but have you tried to recently contact GM to ask if they can spend some time verifying the data you've since collected? Maybe that's a better path, I don't know.... One thing I can say for sure, if you are in GM's upper management, I'm sure you could ask for and get whatever you wanted. If you worked at the Craft Center and had management approval, I'd bet you could build the car you wanted to as well.

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post-30596-143142416464_thumb.jpgYour green car and any other car except black had the option of the body side molding being body color or black. Of course black cars had no option.

You can verify how your car was built by checking the Service Parts Label in the trunk. On all cars but the first 800 (roughly) 1988's the label is on the right side of the spare tire, you must raise the insulation to find it.

In the lines of 3 digit codes, you will find one near the end that end in "Q". A red car (color code 81U) will have a 81Q if the side molding was red, it will be 41Q if it was black. This is true on all years and colors.

I started the database around 1996 with information taken from Reattas at the St Louis BCA national meet. Our cars were in a row and various questions were being ask and none of us knew anything. By compiling what we thought was everything we wanted to know and putting it on a database was the start. Most of the early information came from Reatta owners. You would be supprised how many people with grey interior think it is blue until they see a blue interior.

It was probably not until around 2003 that I started using my GM dealers computer to get their online info. Today the dealer is much larger and the parts department is much busier on Saturday mornings making it more difficult to use their system. Also, like the info you find on Compnine, the Reatta data before 1990 is not available from the GM system.

Sample Service Parts label attached it happens to be from a Canadian car.... note the French at the bottom.

Edited by Barney Eaton (see edit history)
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Will check this out and let you know.

I was under the impression (probably from the FSM) that GM hadn't standardized the option acronym list until after 1995, when ODBII was introduced. Possibly this is why I've been thinking that you had to go back to GM and find out your info. Is there any relation to their standardization of option codes and the introduction of ODBII?

I know that the ALDL of my 87 Grand National can't tell me if it came optioned as a WE2 and without the RPO sticker I probably couldn't sell the car as a real Grand National because people have swapped these or created their own copies. The only way I know of to tell what any GM car was optioned with is to match up the VIN with the RPO sticker in the trunk and then look up the codes. I don't think Compnine does that specifically but it probably get's pretty close. Here's a good example: The 84 Grand National could be ordered with leather seats (trim code 995), and that was the only year they were offered, yet you see many "87 Grand National's" with leather seats where the seller is stating they are original to the car.

My guess is that GM does not want to have to pay to do the one to many collation but maybe could help with a dump of raw data if that does in fact exist. Not just what were the RPO's of any given year, but having the VIN to RPO relationship could be very revealing (probably the same data Compnine uses). And then, if someone at GM could verify what you (we) think are very standard packages against anomalies (outliers) of handful of VIN's with whatever internal RPO lists, that information would be very useful.

Wonder if GM has a research department that can be contacted? Maybe through the GSCA???

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jbeary (do we call you Kerry?)

While this is the Reatta discussion I would like to see a good photo of your body plate. I would have thought that by 1987 the Regals would have had a Service Parts label like the Reatta but I did a little research. Since I am interested in many cars and once rebuilt a 79 ElCamino for my granddaughter, I have some reference material.

Do you have the Buick Grand National, T-Type, and GNX books by American Musclecar Publications? The first one was done in 1989 and the second book was printed in 1992. By that time all the known options should have been discovered and documented. I did a quick look in both books and did not see anything under 1987 that would indicated that leather seats were available in any Regal.

Please post a good copy of your body plate or send it directly to me and I would like to attempt to decode it using the books.

Unless you have inside connection at GM don't expect much help especially after the downsizing.

One reason I became involved in gathering Reatta information was my history with Corvairs. I purchased a new 1960 Monza coupe and drove it for about 4 year...traded it for a 1964 Malibu SS and was without a Corvair until around 1968 and everything went downhill from there. I have owned 35+ Corvairs, everything from excellent condition to parts car. I joined CORSA in 1970 about 1 year after Corvair production stopped. There were many Corvair collectors at that time yet details about colors, options, etc were hard to come by........ knowing this about Corvair information I knew that someone needed to start collecting Reatta information. That is how I got involved, we purchased our first Reatta, a 1990 burgundy/burgundy coupe in early 1992. The timing was similar to the Corvair end of production.

B

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Back in 1978 I bought a new Regal Sport Coupe (Turbo). One day while cleaning the interior I found a yellow build card with various options detailed for it under the drivers seat. Of course I also had the original window sticker. But the interesting thing was that the build card said "Turbo test car" on it. Never did find out what that meant.

Jbeary - you will be happy to know that the first mod I made to that car was to replace the cheesy GM speakers with much nicer sounding Jensens. The OE front speakers did not last two weeks. :)

Edited by wws944 (see edit history)
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Guest turbofish38

Back in 78 when the turbo V-6 was released the dealers were supposed to attach a "turbo tested" type decal somewhere on the car. I couldn't find a picture of one but they pop up time to time on eBay,etc. It had a place where a tech could sign his/her name on the back side.

The SPID labels started to appear on all 1984 GM Products. Of course GM was using them on trucks back in the late 50's simply for the reason of ID'ng SEO parts used on a lot of fleet spec'd trucks. GM started loading RPO and equipment codes into the electronic parts catalog database starting for the 1990 model year which is why there isn't any info in the database for 89 and older cars. You'll hit a dead end trying to get that info from GM as they have handed over all that type of data to a third party. If you have an 82 and newer Buick the best source to get any type of information is to go here http://www.gmmediaarchive.com/ and spend $50 to get a copy of the original invoice. I have one for my 86 GN and it pretty much echoes what is also printed on my cars SPID label. I consider it an essential part of any true enthusiasts portfolio. Oh and I did try that source to see what they could supply in the line of a complete listing of any model. Like say for example we wanted to see how many 86 GNs with T-Tops and C68 were made or Polo Green Reattas with X interior were made. It could be done but not at a price I was willing to pony up to. Maybe when I win the lottery.

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Sorry... First name is Jeff. I use jbeary for everything, sometimes to my disadvantage! Kerry is my wife. I have a book that came out about 1989, which I think was the first of the Grand National books. It documents everything known to that point about Grand Nationals but focuses on the last Grand National made which went to the author who I recall lived in Louisiana. My car came from a New Orleans dealer who brought it to auction as a trade in. The only GNX I know that sold in BAton Rouge was from Gerry Lane. These cars were plentiful elsewhere but scace here. I will post photo's of the book as well as my trunk option RPO's. The only year I know for sure offered leather was 1984. Other years did not on the WE2 option coded cars. MANY people will show leather in a 87 car on eBay. Also I see MANY 86's being passed off as 87's. With as many cars as were built I guess that's easy for a rube to miss.

Walter... the 78 Regal Sport Coupe was/is very rare. Possibly optioned this way to compete with the 78 442 Cutlass of the same time. SUPER nice but very underpowered. Would really like one of those now! I absolutely loved this body style and we had a nice 78 Cutlass that I thought was super "cush" at the time. First car to have the headliner drop and that was it's demise! Could see why many of these still roll with them 24" dubs..

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...

Walter... the 78 Regal Sport Coupe was/is very rare. Possibly optioned this way to compete with the 78 442 Cutlass of the same time. SUPER nice but very underpowered. Would really like one of those now! I absolutely loved this body style and we had a nice 78 Cutlass that I thought was super "cush" at the time. First car to have the headliner drop and that was it's demise! Could see why many of these still roll with them 24" dubs..

At the time there were only four turbo cars on the U.S. market - the Regal SC, Lesabre SC, Saab had one, and of course the Porsche 930. Buick sold quite a few of those cars. Remember that in 1978, the smog controls on the engines were so bad that the turbo 3.8 was only like 10-20 hp less than the V-8 in the F-bodies. Mine was really nicely optioned - dark metallic gold, NO vinyl top (besides the fact that I hate them, I was living in Arizona at the time and they don't take kindly to the sun), chrome sport wheels, tan bucket seats with center console, etc. The only option I wish it had was the 4-bbl carb. Mine was one of the really rare 2-bbl carb cars. My excuse was that I got a good deal on it "off the lot" rather than having to special order a car that was otherwise exactly as I wanted it.

It met its demise in an accident in 1983. A guy in a beater Olds was going the wrong way down a one-way street, so did not see the red light. He drove right out in front of me as I was going through the intersection and I broadsided him... Of course he was driving without insurance too... :(

The '78-'80 Regal Sport Coupes seemed popular. It didn't seem like it was a competitor to the 442s of those years - which were just a trim package that each dealer got, like, one of. Buick sold as many turbos as they could. I have not seen a Regal Sport Coupe in person in quite some time. Heck - I don't even see 1st gen W-body Regals much anymore.

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Also, like the info you find on Compnine, the Reatta data before 1990 is not available from the GM system.

Actually it looks like this may be changing. I work in a GM parts department. Today I entered the last digits of the VIN for a '14 Cruze. This is a freshly built vehicle that is not yet in the database. In its place I got an '84 Sunbird! Option codes and all.

You might have to wait a few years, but those '88s and '89s are liable to turn up in the database someday.

Paul

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Paul, for some reason, some Reatta owners have found their 88-89 cars on Compnine but in general, the pre 1990 cars are missing. Good to have an Olds guy watching the Reatta site.

I rebuild power antennas, just shipped a 1984 "98" antenna.......pass that on to your members.

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  • 3 weeks later...

GM was using option codes back in the early 60s. I don't think OBD-II changed anything, those were option codes. In the late 60's/early 70's everything fit on an 80 column Hollerith card (see "billing card") and many times you could verify that one option was not available with another (e.g. tach and speedminder) because the codes overlapped on the computer card & the computer could not accept both.

IBM tabulation machines go way back to the days of teletypes (an ASR used a card to identify fields) and Hollerith to the nineteenth century. Nothing new. but C60 has been ac forever. Letter indicates the group and number the item in the group. For the computer these became three digit numbers.

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  • 2 months later...

All-right-tee, sorry for the delay in getting back to this. we've been really busy around here. 3 restorations going on and several more in line, plus we've picked up 8 parts cars in the past couple months with more to pick up next week. I haven't had time to sit down and run these through Compnine until now.

Coincidentally, one of the cars we recently picked up was a '91 polo green car in PA a few weeks ago 256,000 orginal miles, but looks way better than some of the 130,000 mile cars we've brought in here. On the way home I followed some leads to a collection of about 11 Reattas in northern VA that had another polo green car in it.

Here's what I've found:

1G4EC13L8MB901423

1G4EC13L1MB901425

1G4EC13L3MB901426

1G4EC13L5MB901427

1G4EC13L7MB901428

1G4EC13L9MB901429

1G4EC13L5MB901430

1G4EC13L7MB901431

1G4EC13L9MB901432

1G4EC13L0MB901433

1G4EC13L2MB901434

1G4EC13L4MB901435

1G4EC13L6MB901436

1G4EC13L8MB901437

1G4EC13L1MB901439

1G4EC13L1MB901442

[TABLE=width: 312]

<tbody>[TR]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent]1G4EC13L5MB901444[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent][/TD]

[/TR]

</tbody>[/TABLE]

These cars are showing up Compnine as "unlisted". It shows all the options and the build date, but is still "unlisted" No idea why.

1G4EC13L2MB901400 and 1G4EC13L2MB901401 aren't in the Compnine database at all.

This accounts for the 20-car discrepancy between Compnine and Barney's list.

Why some cars are unlisted and some are simply not in the database is anyone's guess.

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I think we can call this progress, thanks to Marck for taking the time to check Compnine, again showing while they have some good info, it may not all be there.

I spent many hours at my GM dealer using their parts department computer and printing out Reatta information.

As a start, one photo shows 3 sheets stacked.... with the first 3 vins on the list, 901423, 901424, and 901425 why they do not show up on Compnine is anybody's guess.

I have the sheets on the rest of the cars on the list. If for any reason these are unreadable, I can send copies directly to anyone interested.

The other two photos show the cars that Compnine did not have, 901400 & 901401.

It would be nice if Marck would revile the vin number of the Green car he found in the group of 11 in VA, this would confirm another number.

post-30596-143142555342_thumb.jpg

post-30596-143142555345_thumb.jpg

post-30596-143142555378_thumb.jpg

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I'm not at liberty to disclose either of the VIN numbers for the polo green cars. They're almost identical however. Mine has standard seats while the one in the semi trailer has 16 ways. CD, sunroof and body color mouldings on both. The milage is 200k in difference though.

post-62980-143142555381_thumb.jpg

post-62980-143142555638_thumb.jpg

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