1963 Riviera help

[Guest Bigdawg9831]

Gents,

I recently purchased a 1963 Riviera. The story goes like this for this Riviera. Original owner ordered it in 1963. Took great car of it. Kept it garaged it's whole life. This gentleman died about 10 years ago. His widow left the car in the garage until she died. The house was bought at an estate sale with the car in the garage. The gentleman who bought the house didn't want the car so he traded it to a construction work for a job he did for him. The construction work then needed new equipment so he posted it and that's how I came about purchasing this car. It is a #'s matching car. But I do have a few questions regarding restoration and odds and ends.

#1. This Riviera has a square driver mirror. Every pic I have ever seen has been round. Could it be correct or best guess just replaced?

#2. I want to restore this back as if it just drove off the line. I know it's preference but after market parts (I.e. Tail light lens etc) or find originals and restore? Which would hold more value to the car?

#3. Was the interior leather? And would it be best to take in and have restored? Or order them already completed?

just looking for some opinions on the matter. Thank u for your time

[JanZverina]

Welcome,

Your car looks quite similar to mine, which is Teal Mist with white leather. I purchased it recently, and its from WA state, mostly original except for a repaint in the 1980s. I'm pretty sure a square OSRV mirror is not factory-correct. I would guess that factory-original parts being replated or restored would hold more value, even though a car can be only original once, and in some areas of the collector car market these days, unrestored and pretty rough "barn find" cars can sometimes command a premium over a well-restored one. White leather was offered as an extra-cost option with Teal Mist. Try Clark's Corvairs for retrim kits - yes, I know it says Corvair but they have a small catalog of early Riv parts, from interior kits to hard-to-find doorjamb switches. And if you have not already done so, join the ROA. Best $ you'll ever spend.

[tenugent]

Im going to take a stab at decoding your firewall plate(if i dont get this right ill be corrected)-06c build date june 3rd week-J2 power seat-D am radio manual antena-S7 remote mirror-I7 tinted windshield-N2 airconditioning-U7 power windows-Z4 trunk release.looks like a keeper,turbine wheel covers,does it have delux interior with wood door panels?hope this helps and welcome to the world of rivieras.T.Nugent roa 12969.. PS.try to get chassis and body manual for your car and also join the ROA.

[RivNut]

Bigdawg.

To add to what Tim said in post #3, Trim code 748 is in fact white leather w/ vinyl skirting, backs of the front seats, and door panels. the FB number is the sequential build number. 36,699 out of 40,000 (Limited production.) D doesn't necessarily mean it's an am radio, it just means that a basic '63 Riviera body was modified to accept a radio. My '63 is also code D and it's equipped with the signal seeking Wonderbar AM radio and power antenna. The mirror (S7) should be round and have a remote joystick on the driver's door panel.

Options like power antenna, four note horns, cornering lights, tilt wheel, etc. that did not need body mods to a basic body are not coded on the data plate.

If you can't tell that a part is original or reproduced, it won't matter.

Someone has also installed a hood emblem from a 79 -85 Riviera on your car. The '63 hood emblem is a round button with the red/wht/blu Buick tri-shield on it. CARS in NJ reproduces them but they're on back order right now.

Ed

Edited January 17, 2014 by RivNut (see edit history)

[lrlforfun]

OK Big Dawg: That's a nice unmolested 63 Riv. Not too many left from the original food chain, especially ones like yours that have always had excellent care. Still, it's 51 years old and Father Time hasn't forgotten about it......or me too for that matter. Mitch

[RivNut]

Bigdawg,

My comment on the hood emblem was based on looking at the picture of Jan's car, not yours. Sorry.

Ed

[tenugent]

Bigdawg-if your not familar with the turbine wheelcovers-the centerhub removes to get to lug nuts to get the wheel off-rest of cast hubcap unbolts from back of wheel once removed.im saying this because alot were pryed and damaged-thats what makes a undamaged set rare.T.N...

[RivNut]

now that Tim has told you how to remove the spinners and wheel covers, you need to be aware that the lug nuts are left hand threads on the driver's side of the car (unless they've been replaced.) Before trying to remove a lug nut, look at the end of the lug stud. If the studs are original, there will be a large L stamped into the end of the stud. Even thought they look similar, there are many differences between the three years. Body differences are obvious between the 63/64 and the 65. What's not obvious are the little things. Please feel free to ask any question regardless of how silly you might think it is. And DON'T be fooled by the sellers on eBay who say that one part will fit all three years. Check first. It's a lot easier than trying to get your money back after holding on to a part for a year only to find out it won't work on your year.

Ed

Edited January 18, 2014 by RivNut (see edit history)

[JanZverina]

Bigdawg,

My comment on the hood emblem was based on looking at the picture of Jan's car, not yours. Sorry.

Ed

I know Ed - I'm waiting for CARS Inc. to get the correct emblem in stock - plus my car's been undergoing transmission surgery so it's been a lower priority. But don't worry - despite looking at that prestigious 'R' down the road at the front of the hood, I'll change it out!

[Guest Bigdawg9831]

@Jan. thank you for the advice on where to look for trim kits and the mirror. Yes I will be joining ROA. The more I stare at the car the more I like it the way it is. For the most part.

@T.Nugent. Thank you for the welcome into the Riviera world. Thank you for the decode. Yes it does have the leather interior with the wood door panels. Any suggestions on a good place to get those manuals?

@Ed. Thank for the decode. We'll the joy stick is on the inside but it does not control the mirror. Thank you for the clarification on the mirror. You mentioned four note horns, I have what it call trumpet horns (I have no idea what to call them) attached to the inside of the drivers side hood. Are those stock?

@Mitch. Yes Father Time has not forgotten about the rubber on the car. He made sure that was the first to go. Slowly getting that back up to speed.

@T.Nugent & Ed that was some great information about the wheel covers. I honestly would have messed that up somehow. 3 of them are in really great shape. One did meet its maker when it hit most likely a curb. Yes I am finding out that parts out there are not what people say they are. Good thing I haven't lost any money on that yet.

[Guest Bigdawg9831]

Here is some more pics of the horns

[Guest Bigdawg9831]

Here is some more pics of things in the car for those who want to see

[RivNut]

The two trumpet horns on the underside of the hood plus the two sea-shell horns make up the four note horn option - code O7 (oh, not zero)

Someone has added an overflow catch bottle.

An aftermarket tach has been added where a factory tach would have been placed.

Mystery speaker control. The '63 Riviera only came with a rear speaker. No room for a front dash speaker with the a/c and heater controls where they are. There must be some hidden aftermarket speakers up front somewhere. Everything else looks factory from what can be seen in the pictures.

Thermometer over the rear window??

Check to see if a cornering light (light that shines to the side that lights up the curb) comes on when you turn on the turn signal. They work only on the side of the car for which you turn on the signal. They would be located in the bottom of the turn signal housing.

Nice car. I'm sure you'll enjoy it as much as we enjoy looking at it.

Ed

Edited January 18, 2014 by RivNut (see edit history)

[JanZverina]

Nice pictures! Your car looks nicely optioned. As mentioned, I have the same ext./int. color combo but no A/C or power windows, and no four-note horn! The body and chassis manuals are pretty available on eBay, but you many want to make sure you are getting an original and not a reprint if that matters to you. You can get them in good shape for $35-$40 each, and they are invaluable. (You'll see detailed drawings of that four-note horn, for instance). These 1963 manuals cover all series of large Buicks, with sections exclusive to Riviera (series 4700). Also, I'll pass on some advice I received here on this forum, and that's to spend a $20 bill on a color-coded wiring diagram from www.classiccarwiring.com. It may be the best $20 you spend before getting into any electrical repairs! Keep us posted!

[lrlforfun]

OK Big Dawg: I'm in Castro Valley and I'm in P-town almost every day. Let's hook up if you care to. Mitch

[DrP]

Well it seems that some original owner Rivs, in the SF Bay Area, are coming out of hibernation. Feb 3 I bought a lovely Spruce Green w/leather '63 that has less than 25K mi and had been resting in San Leandro CA for about 25 years. Always stored and paint and chrome is almost like it would have been when car was very "young". Usual problems with long stored cars i.e., dried rubber and dried gaskets, bias ply wsw tires with cracks and checks, etc. Put battery in and new gas and fired right up. According to the Chevron service sticker on the door all fluids were changed only 800 miles less than now on the odometer. Has the original tractor fed printer dealer receipt showing price plus options. Found 1964 credit card flimsies from Rancho Cordova and So. Lake Tahoe for gas fill ups at 40.9 cents per gallon. I've always lusted after a 63 Riv and, even at my senior age, the lust is still there and thank goodness Im finally getting pleasured. Thank all you Riv veterans for your great help - RIvNut, Jim Cannon and others who have recently helped me get started on the path to stewardship of a fine, fine automobile. Any time anyone is going to be in the Monterey CA area please let me know and we can get together.

[1965rivgs]

Hi DrP,

Sounds like a wonderful find. What is the original tractor fed printer dealer receipt? Pics of the car and dealer receipt would be great Thanks,

Tom Mooney

[RivNut]

Feb 3 I bought a lovely Spruce Green w/leather '63

If you tell me it has silver leather, I'm already envious. Those were the color combinations on the first '63 that I ever saw; early October, 1962. I painted my first 1/25 scale model in those colors. Like all the rest of the tire kickers, I'd like to see some pictures.

Ed

[lrlforfun]

OK DrP: Just out of curiosity, what was the source that led you to this car in San Leandro? I'm in Castro Valley and track Craig's list every day like a big dog. Had I have seen the listing I would been all over it like a June bug. Mitch

[DrP]

Tnx Tom, Ed 'n Mitch: It's the MSRP paperwork from the old continuous feed printers with the tear off strip with holes and it's yellowed with age but still legible. I have it in a clear plastic file folder. It shows the VIN # (7J111xxxx) Sold by Wolf Buick San Leandro and base price and lists each option, code and price. FYI:

Base price $4,333.00

D1 Sonomatic Radio w/ manual antenna 90.30 ; I6 Soft-Ray tinted glass 43.00 ; J2 Power seat- 4 way tilt adjuster 70.95 ; L1 Tilt Steering Wheel 43.00 ; N2 Air Conditioner 430.00 ; S7Remote control outside rear view mirror 11.88 ; T1 White sidewall tires 39.56 ; U7 Power Windows 107.50 ; Custom trim with bucket seats in leather 188.13 NO NEED FOR ENVY ED; IT'S BLACK LEATHER

Destination Charge 201.00

Does not include dealer installed options (haven't discovered them yet)

$5,638.95 less tax or license fees. (Still has original black Calif Plates)

Will try to post pics soon. And, Mitch you BIG dog. If I tell you the source will you still respect me in the morning??:cool: There are a couple of more cars there that I may be still interested in offering $$$ for. But Mitch, if you find me a Wolf Buick San Leandro license plate frame, I could be convinced to talk.:eek:

[DrP]

More help: Will be re-skinning front seats w/ Clark's Corvairs leather and buttons. Seats are pretty good but threads broken and some wear so new for the front and PRO Leather Lather rears. In the process made more "discoveries" when removed front seats. Sorta like an "archeological dig" laying out a story of the life of the owners. Under passenger seat was 2 wedding match books: "Carolyn and Larry June 24, 1967"; Woman's black, very nice, small evening purse (no $), coupon for 8 cents off box of Tide, two Sherwin Williams paint chip color samples - pink and yellow, various receipts from Long's Drug. Seems the owners may not have been smokers as ash trays and lighters show minimal use. Husband owned a service station. Under hood and trunk (all original with jack hold down spring and fiberboard in good shape) shows some of his "creative" fixes - mostly generous use of black electrical tape and ignition wires replaced with FOMOCO. Left headlights are T3's. Would like two more for right side to replace Fomoco on right. Only see T3's sold in sets of four. Anyone know where I can get 1 high beam and 1 high/low T3's? Also, the front parking and turn bulbs are yellow. Was this factory? OR, do I replace w/white? Tnx again for all help.

[DrP]

One more request guys - at least for now. No seat belts in this car. Was there an option? Recommendations solicited for sourcing new lap type seat belts please? Pulled right front carpet up and there is a rubber plug on the floor near the sill about where back of front seat ends. Is this a hole for lap seat belt mounting?

[Eric's.64.Superwildcat]

I think front seat belts were an option in '63. I believe front belts became mandatory on January 1, 1964.

[RivNut]

For 1963, seat belts were option code B-1, or they could be dealer installed. The holes for the seat belt bolts may be there sealed with rubber plugs. Option B-1 from the factory costs $19.03.

[JanZverina]

One more request guys - at least for now. No seat belts in this car. Was there an option? Recommendations solicited for sourcing new lap type seat belts please? Pulled right front carpet up and there is a rubber plug on the floor near the sill about where back of front seat ends. Is this a hole for lap seat belt mounting?

I just installed front lap belts in my '63 four days ago. Yes, the mountings have rubber plugs in them, which keep the threaded bolt holes clean. They are easily located if your remove the sill plates and lift up the carpet near the rear of the console. I went to Ace Hardware and got hardened Grade 5 bolts, 13/16th and 1 1/4 inches long, for $2.50 a piece vs. $14.99 per at OPGI. I also used some Loctite Red thread sealer. They took about 10 min. per side to install, including removing and reinstalling the sill plates. I know lap belts aren't exactly the pinnacle of safety systems, but they certainly beat having nothing!

[DrP]

I just installed front lap belts in my '63 four days ago. Yes, the mountings have rubber plugs in them, which keep the threaded bolt holes clean. They are easily located if your remove the sill plates and lift up the carpet near the rear of the console. I went to Ace Hardware and got hardened Grade 5 bolts, 13/16th and 1 1/4 inches long, for $2.50 a piece vs. $14.99 per at OPGI. I also used some Loctite Red thread sealer. They took about 10 min. per side to install, including removing and reinstalling the sill plates. I know lap belts aren't exactly the pinnacle of safety systems, but they certainly beat having nothing!

Thanks for the info on source of bolts. Are your new seat belts original type for the Riviera or period correct? I want to source some while I have the front seats out of the car but want to keep car original. Where did you buy them? Dale

[DrP]

Almost ready for prime time '63. This is the San Leandro find referenced in another thread. One owner; 24,778 mi. Spruce Green w/ black leather. Built 3'rd week in June. Always garaged and then "hibernated" for over 25 yrs. Options shown on purchase document. Really happy to be part of the Riviera group ROA #14396 and feel truly blessed this beautiful car found me. Dale

[RivNut]

What a truly historical time piece. Great find. I (we) ask that you take a boat load of picture so that we can have good evidence of what the cars looked like as they left the assembly line. Especially in the engine compartment.

Be sure to post a picture of your data plate so Jim can add this car to his data base.

Great find. No, I'm not envious any more; it doesn't have silver interior.

Ed

[DrP]

Ed I read your and Jim Cannon's posts from 2009 discussing what was likely the correct seat belts for '63 Rivs with the "V" buckle. I'm really searching for sets -two front seats- in black for my car. (My wife hid the keys and won't let me drive without them. Hoping she won't ask about airbags.:mad:) Any advice from anyone on where to find the correct for this car is appreciated. Tnx, Dale

[DrP]

Data plate photo sent to Jim last week. He's a great resource and he told me of the build date.

[RivNut]

Ed I read your and Jim Cannon's posts from 2009 discussing what was likely the correct seat belts for '63 Rivs with the "V" buckle. I'm really searching for sets -two front seats- in black for my car. (My wife hid the keys and won't let me drive without them. Hoping she won't ask about airbags.:mad:) Any advice from anyone on where to find the correct for this car is appreciated. Tnx, Dale

My '63 has dealer installed belts in it and they look exactly like the ones on this link. (except mine are black.)

http://wescoperformance.stores.yahoo.net/ll60.html

This is the correct OE bolt for the 1st generation Riviera. If Original Part Group (OPGI) sells them for $13, chances are you can find them elsewhere for much less. I only used this link for the picture.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Parts-Group-Seat-Belt-Anchor-Bolt-GM-1964-1966-/271210397131

Like this:

https://secure.amesperf.com/qilan/Detail_Web?part_num=A139PA&order_number_e=MzM0NDg3NQ%3D%3D%0A&web_access=Y

Edited February 16, 2014 by RivNut
Added- Like this: (see edit history)

[DrP]

OK Ed. Ordered bolt and need length of seat belt. Options are 60 inch or 72 inch. Neither wife or me are "girthy" but which length is standard for Riv?

[RivNut]

I've got a set of '64 belts that aren't in a car. I laid them end to end and they measured 64" from bolt hole to bolt hole. I probably should add another inch for what was inside the buckle. But the unused section beyond the latch was 12" or so. I would say that probably only 48 - 50 inches of belt was actually used. Unless you need to sit the seats really far forward, the '60" ones should be long enough. Grab a tape measure and figure out where the holes are and measure around your lap as you're sitting in the driving position; see what you come up with. If you do a search, you'll see what a couple of Aussies have done to create three point harnesses instead of the two OE points.

Ed

[DrP]

Tnx Ed. 60 inch belts from Wesco Performance are on the way as well as bolts you suggested. Got the keys back for being a good boy.

[JanZverina]

Hi Dale,

I had a spare set which has the push-button latch release which I prefer, but I've always ordered belts from Wesco Performance for my other older cars. I would defer to Rivnut but I think the lift latch belts are correct for '63. He would know if they had the tri shield logo on them of if that came in '64. There's a recent thread on that subject. Nice color Riv! Welcome to the forum and ROA. You've found a very helpful group of enthusiasts here!

[Guest dwhiteside64]

I think front seat belts were an option in '63. I believe front belts became mandatory on January 1, 1964.

I can attest to this Eric. I have a '64 with a build date of Dec 1963 (second week) with the deluxe lab belt option 5Z on trim tag (no retractors). Looks Like January 1st 1964 was the magical date!

[RivNut]

My '64 has the FW code - Seat belts w/ retractors. My question is this. Because my car was built 7A (first week of July) does the seat belt code only appear because of the retractors? If it were mandatory after Jan. 1, 1964, there wouldn't be a need for a seat belt code. Who else out there with cars built after 1A can look at their data plate to see if you have a seat belt code on your data plate. 5Z - seat belts or 5W - seat belts w/ retractors. My theory is that if the federal mandate date is correct, after 1A, you shouldn't have a seat belt code unless it's 5W for seat belts with retractors. If there are any 5Z cars out there built after 1A, then my theory is kapoot.

Ed

PS the K in the 5 group is for door edge guards.

[Eric's.64.Superwildcat]

Hi Ed.

I just checked my '64 with a build date of 02D any my '5 series' coding on my cowl tag is 5ZK.

[RivNut]

Same as mine. Group 5, Z - seat belts w/ retainers, and K - Door edge guards. Thanks,

Ed

[DrP]

And speaking seats; Removed my right front and carpet. Buick insulated the floor under the carpet pretty good. Am adding Second Skin - the black stuff - as extra sound deadening before reinstalling . Question: there is a white triangular plastic piece in the footwell - see photos- on the right footwell but on the drivers side a similar piece is stainless steel. This seems odd to me but my car is pretty much unmolested. Is this white plastic piece standard? Or, was the stainless steel piece added by PO on driver's side since that gets wear? Also, for general interest, last pic shows production tag found slipped under springs on the bottom of my passenger seat showing codes, probably stocking numbers?