1932 Studebaker Indy car build

[DavidAU]

Just as a preliminary test push the cluch pedal down and mark where the clutch shaft gets to then remove the pedal linkage and push the clutch shaft forward to the maximum point with a large spanner and see if there is a difference.  The clutch pedal ratio maybe wrong and you are not getting enough leverage.

[Mike Macartney]

Gary,

 

Does it 'feel' that the clutch pedal is operating the clutch pressure plate, when you press the clutch pedal?

 

With plenty of room in front of the car, can you start the engine with gearbox in gear, 2nd or 3rd, with your foot on the clutch? That may break the clutch plate from the flywheel? I have cleared stuck clutch plates by tow starting the cars, and then accelerating and breaking with clutch pedal depressed. I would not recommend it with such a nice car as yours as you have to be careful not to run into the towing vehicle.

 

Mike

[Autofil]

Gary,

 

It might be bonded, but if the storage has not been to humid, this is not very likely. 
 

I assume you have a change in resistance once thrust bearing is loaded by clutch linkage, and that the clutch interaction push force increase for the given travel. If no sense of the typical spring resistance, then you may have either a range issue as David pointed out, or some internal mechanics fault. 
 

Last is that the clutch pressure plate assy can be adjusted on each coil spring vs lever vs pin screw. I assume the clutch has the same features as my 35’ truck with the Champion truck engine. It looks very similar. If so, there might be a need to adjust this to get the optimal thrust bearing contact and position to release the clutch. Especially if your range in the linkage and actual shaft movement or mis aligned/not optimal. 
 

just my input. 

[Autofil]

By the way, the picture of the clutch housing with shaft installed show the thrust bearing retainer/slider with the small spring turned backwards, if it was installed this way, the thrust bearing may not see the correct load applied. The spring on the picture shall be behind the retainer/slider, not visually as shown. See the Studebaker manual cut-thru. 

[Gary_Ash]

6 hours ago, DavidAU said:

Just as a preliminary test push the cluch pedal down and mark where the clutch shaft gets to then remove the pedal linkage and push the clutch shaft forward to the maximum point with a large spanner and see if there is a difference.  The clutch pedal ratio maybe wrong and you are not getting enough leverage.

David, the clutch pedal ratio is pretty much set by the length of the clutch release lever which is outside the bell housing, a factory part which has the adjusting screw with contact pad.  The leverage is OK, but your point about the amount of travel is interesting and worth a try.

 

4 hours ago, Mike Macartney said:

Gary,

 

Does it 'feel' that the clutch pedal is operating the clutch pressure plate, when you press the clutch pedal?

Mike:  Yes, there is very little pressure for the 1st 3/4" of travel, then increasing force is needed.  It feels like the clutch levers are acting as they should.

 

4 hours ago, Autofil said:

By the way, the picture of the clutch housing with shaft installed show the thrust bearing retainer/slider with the small spring turned backwards, if it was installed this way, the thrust bearing may not see the correct load applied. The spring on the picture shall be behind the retainer/slider, not visually as shown. See the Studebaker manual cut-thru. 

Autofil:  I think I have it right way around.  When the transmission input shaft is not inserted in the bearing collar and bearing, the collar flips.  I think what you were seeing in the photo doesn't represent how it is when installed - but I am going to check it very carefully.  I've learned that I can pull the four bolts that secure the transmission to the bell housing, insert two long pieces of threaded rod, and slide the transmission out enough to see the yoke and bearing collar/bearing.

 

When I started the engine (in neutral) and ran it for about 10 minutes, I tried to put the car in gear, noticed the clutch issue.  I then shut the engine down, put it in gear, and started it.  Of course, the car started moving and I pretty quickly had to turn it off with the key as there was no place to go in my driveway.  It all happened so quickly that I didn't think to push the clutch in and tap the gas pedal.  Given the possibilities, it seems wisest to disassemble everything and check the pressure plate and clutch disk before trying other things.  If the disk is stuck to the flywheel, I'll certainly find out!  I guess I'll go out to the garage and start the disassembly process.  I didn't want this much practice at putting it together and taking it apart and putting it together again.  Groan!  

 

Thanks for the inputs, guys.

 

Throw-out bearing and collar as seen from transmission side.  Spring attaches to protrusion at top of collar.  Yoke arms contact outer ends of collar,

as seen by wear marks. 

 

NOS yoke.  It only goes on shaft one way, rotation position held by key and side position by bolt with reduced end diameter engages hole in shaft.

Drawing of clutch release shaft showing keyway and alignment hole on right end. 

[Gary_Ash]

After 5 hours or so of rolling around on the garage floor, I finally got everything apart in the clutch.  I think I found one minor and one major problem.

 

Minor:  The external clutch shaft actuator was probably too far out on the end of the shaft allowing too much side-to-side motion of the yoke, interfered with the yoke engaging the collar correctly.  I moved the actuator in about 1/4", should still leave some free movement of the shaft to properly center the yoke.  I did find that I had built in an adjustment screw in the bracket that supports the outer end of my clutch pedal shaft that can give me a little more rotation, if needed.  I had forgotten that it was there for just that purpose.

Clutch shaft actuator.  I pulled the shaft out about 1/4", moved the actuator in.  It's keyed to the shaft, won't slip around.

 

Major:  I think the clutch plate was in backwards.  When I dropped the pressure plate assembly out, the clutch plate fell free, no sign of adhesion.  So, I'm glad I took everything apart.  Looking at the pressure plate assembly with the transmission out, I could see the boss on the center of the clutch plate.  With the plate out, it clearly has a long side and short side of the boss.  The service manual diagram seems to show the longer boss facing the engine and the short one facing the transmission.  I've always wondered how the plate can go in backwards and why it makes a difference.  I think it has something to do with how the boss fits into the throw-out bearing and collar - or not!  Anyone agree that the long side should face the engine?

 

My poor buddy Jerry had done many 1937 engines but he must have been slipping into dementia as he finished mine.  I was lucky to get it back fully assembled, even if a few details were not right.  The other projects in his shop never got put back together.  I hope I don't find too many more issues.

 

Now I have to go find something to use for an alignment shaft to center the clutch plate during re-assembly.  I have a vague recollection of having bought a set of plastic ones when I assembled my Studebaker M5 truck back in 2004.  Now, where did I put them...?  I sure hope this fixes the clutch actuation.

 

Yoke, collar, and throw-out bearing in bell housing.

 

Clutch assembly after removing bell housing.  Note long boss on clutch plate facing away from the engine.

 

Detail of transmission main shaft in boss of clutch plate.  Long side of boss facing engine.

 

Clutch plate with long boss side up.

 

Clutch plate with short boss side up.

 

 

 

[Bloo]

The two issues are clearance for the spring assembly, and also for that "boss". As I recall the direction is the same on nearly all more modern cars, but I couldn't tell you which way it is without the parts in front of me. I think any rule of thumb falls apart on these older cars. On one hand, some flywheels may not have enough clearance for the springs over the bolts leading to interference and non-release. On the other hand, the "boss" could be bottoming out either in the splines, or against the throwout bearing support on the transmission, preventing the disc from sliding back when the pressure plate releases.

 

Glad you found it. I think you will be on the road soon.

 

 

[Autofil]

I agree with Bloo and yourself. It all comes down to clearances on how you orient, in or out, the clutch plate assy. It is very likely that the protruding splined boss interfered the release collar enough to limit thrust bearing travel and subsequently disc slippage needed. Even this is a different Studebaker engine and clutch assy used on a 35’ Studebaker 1T241 truck, you can see the short boss side and spring assy being installed away from engine equally as your illustration. 

[Autofil]

And this particular one was really seized on the flywheel 😆

 

[Gary_Ash]

With the clutch plate out, I was able to study it carefully.  With the long part of the hub facing the flywheel, it was clear that there was limited distance  between the the plate springs and steel rivets to the ends of the flywheel bolts, maybe 0.050".  I ground down the tops of the rivets to gain a little more.  The clutch lining is 0.125" thick but only 0.075" is available before the heads of the rivets hit.  So, at least I now have about 0.050" of wear before something hits.  This may last my lifetime.

 

The other side of the disk has the springs sticking far above the lining.  I think the springs were contacting the flywheel bolts with the plate wrong way around preventing the clutch from releasing.

 

I reassembled much of the car today, got the clutch and transmission in.  I was able to use a small crowbar, as suggested by DavidAU, to test the clutch actuation before hooking up the driveshaft.  With the transmission in 3rd gear and no force on the clutch shaft, I couldn't turn the output flange.  By pulling on the actuator, I was then able to turn the output shaft.  These are things I never knew about clutch plates.  I think the clutch is now working.  I'll find out tomorrow for sure!

 

 

The clutch plate showing the long part of the hub.  This is now facing the flywheel, wasn't before.  Note how springs are just above the plate surface.

Note also the four steel rivets holding the plate together - I ground down their heights to well below the lining level.

 

The clutch plate with the short side of the hub.  Note how far above the lining the springs are, probably were forced against the flywheel surface before.

This side now goes into the pressure plate, no clearance issues.

 

Using a short crowbar to test the clutch shaft actuation.  I was able to get the clutch to release.  My arm hurts now.

My leg is stronger and the pedal ratio is about 6:1.  I spent way too many hours under the car!

 

 

[edinmass]

2 hours ago, Gary_Ash said:

 

 

 

 

I spent way too many hours under the car!

 

 

I too have had a similar experience.....with one exception.........

 

 

”I spent way too many YEARS under the car!”

[Gary_Ash]

Houston, we have lift-off!

 

At long last, the clutch plate got installed the right way round, I put the hood and side panels on, and drove out of the garage and around the driveway a couple of times.  A town police car drove by in the midst of this, didn't even slow down, but I'm glad I didn't choose to go out on the road - no registration yet.  The car does run and drive.  The clutch pedal is very stiff but the engagement is smooth and featherable.  There was a lot of smoke from the engine but I think that is just a matter of breaking in the engine.  I need to run it up to about 2000 rpm and hold it there for 15 minutes.  There are a few details to sort out, like adjusting the shape of the shift lever so it doesn't come so close to the seats, but the major issues are hopefully behind me.

 

Here is the YouTube video my wife took of the first drive:

https://youtu.be/d8twLdw7v2Y

 

[edinmass]

Congratulations, the car looks fantastic! You should be justifiably proud of your accomplishment. You get a very seldom awarded three thumbs up. 👍👍👍

[Gary_Ash]

Thanks, Ed, but you've got to stop clowning around...🤣

 

I had long ago estimated what the final weight would be for the car, but I wanted to actually measure it.  Back when I was working on the axles, etc., I went to Walmart, bought four bathroom scales at $8.88 each, 300 lb capacity, all mechanical with a dial.  So, yesterday, I jacked up the wheels and put a pair of the scales under the wheel with a couple of 2x4's to span them and distribute the weight.  I also placed an equal-height stack of 2x8 pieces under the opposite wheel to keep the axle level.  I have previously arranged the scales so that four of them could measure together for 1200 lb capacity.  Because the dial is continuous from 0 to 300, it will keep going past 300 but accuracy is unknown above 300.  Interestingly, each corner came out at 590-610 lbs for a total of 2400 lbs.  That also meant 50-50 weight distribution front-to-rear, which made me happy.  Because I've been a private pilot, I know how to do weight-and-balance calculations, and I had previously made an Excel spreadsheet with the weights and positions of most of the components.  It predicted the total weight pretty well and the 50-50 balance.  I may still take the car to the local recycling center where they will weigh the car for $5, though I may have to wait in line behind a bunch of garbage trucks.

 

Studebaker raced five of these cars in 1932, then changed the bodies on four of them in 1933 and moved the engines ahead 8 inches.  I have no idea why they moved the engines, but with the heavier 337 cu in engines, most of the weight would have been on the front wheels, say 60-40 distribution.  The fifth car, the original #37 Hunt-Jenkins Special now re-numbered as #47, also got its engine moved, the hood stretched, and a deeper radiator shell added to push the radiator forward.  Comparing photos from 1932 and 1933 shows this.  After the 1933 race, the cars got sold, most with their original bodies and the engines put back to the original positions.  Ab Jenkins son got #37, since the car had never actually been owned by Studebaker.  The 337 cu in engines are about 4" longer than my 250 cu in engine (31" long block)  

 

  

Weighing the right front of the car with two Sunbeam scales.

 

The Hunt-Jenkins Special from 1931 as configured for the 1932 race, the prototype for the other four cars.

 

Originally car #37, note the longer hood and grille shell now well forward on the chassis in 1933.  Careful examination shows that the cowl and steering gear have also been moved forward and that the tail section just behind the driver is longer.  There are three holes in the frame rails where the steering gear used to be located.  Did they build a whole new body for this car or modify the old one?

 

Car #37 in 2017.  The steering gear has been moved back to the original location, note the holes in the frame rail.  During the 1980s restoration of this car, a new grille shell was made and most of a new tail, as the back section of the old tail had been cut off when the car was converted to a "sports car".

 

Car #37 as it was in the 1950s with a bobbed tail and the cowl cut down.  I wish I had more photos of the car from that period.

Edited June 14, 2021 by Gary_Ash (see edit history)

[Gary_Ash]

I found the Studebaker Engineering memo covering the body modification of #37 for 1933 - apparently it was "pieced".  The memo references the Rockne engines, which refers to the comparative tests they did with the 250 cu in straight 8 versus the larger 337 engine.  The camshaft change added increased duration, axle ratio change was to 3.09:1.  I don't believe these memos have ever been published.  This Forum only allows pictures to 1024 x 768 pixels, so these are as high resolution as I can post.

 

 

 

[Gary_Ash]

Note that the memo above was signed by Studebaker's Chief Engineer, D. G. "Barney" Roos.  A double-degree graduate of Cornell University, my alma mater as well, he had quite a career in the auto industry.

 

See the Hemmings article on his career:

https://www.hemmings.com/stories/article/barney-roos

 

Delmar G. Roos

[Lahti35]

Way to go Gary! What an accomplishment! I've followed your thread with great interest for years as your project has come together. It's been a treat to see your updates and the wonderful craftsmanship unfold into a sleek car. Keep up the great work!

[95Cardinal]

Congratulations, Gary!

You must be floating around on Cloud 9 these days!

 

[Gary_Ash]

I’ve been addressing small details. I took the shift lever out of the transmission, used a little heat to slightly unbend the big loop I had put in.  Now it’s OK up and down, but too close to the steering wheel.  Needs more torch.

 

There is a master battery cut-off switch on the right side of the dash that is supposed to disconnect all things electrical in an emergency.  I tried it with the engine running but the engine kept running because the generator was still pumping out current.  I ordered a different switch from Pegasus Auto Racing with two extra sets of contacts, rewired the leads to the coil through Normally Closed contacts. The other contacts (Normally Open) are used to ground the alternator output through a resistor. Funny, when I called Pegasus to ask if a generator also needed to be grounded this way, he’d never heard of anyone using the switch on a car with a generator. I’m not sure he even knew what a generator was.  I did hook up the grounding circuit; it only functions for the few seconds it takes for the engine to stop rotating. Now the engine stops when I turn the master switch.   I noted that the ammeter reads backwards, need to reverse the leads. 

 

I ran the engine and drove around the driveway for 10-15 minutes. The smoke has stopped. Yay!
 

The exhaust noise is loud (but thrilling), so maybe I should put in one of the additional baffles supplied with the slip-in 3-disk baffle set I got from Car Chemistry. I don’t want to attract too much attention or deafen the neighbors. 

 

I’m learning a routine to start the car:  Open the fuel valve, pull out the choke a little, turn on master switch, turn on ignition key, turn on electric fuel pump, push in clutch, push the starter button and be ready to pump the gas pedal a little. It’s why pilots have check lists. Forget any one of these items and the car won’t start. Ask me why I know this, LOL!

 

My younger daughter, her husband, and their two kids arrive from the Netherlands in two days, will be visiting until August.  Son-in-law has been bugging me that he is ready to drive the car. As I always said to my daughters when they were growing up, “We’ll see…”

[edinmass]

Glad the smoke stopped........👍👍👍

[Studemax]

Gary has performed an awesome feat. I am green with envy.

[Gary_Ash]

I've been working with the paint shop to get the right color and the right amount of sparkle for the silver paint to go on the body.  From the few color photos from 1932, we know the car was light silver.  It's also known that the paints were pearlescent using fish scales.  These days mica might be a good substitute for the fish scales but aluminum flake isn't too far off.  I tried a GM "Silver Birch" color but it wasn't quite right.  The paint shop mixed up a sample of that and also a sample of a 1962-1963  Studebaker "Silver Mist".  The Silver Mist was the right color, but the small, Medium Coarse  aluminum flakes didn't have enough "pop", so we changed the formula just a bit to use Coarse flake instead in the DuPont Chromabase recipe.  The sample looked excellent.  I'll bring the 7 body pieces to the shop on July 19.  

 

Studebaker Color Name and Year	Paint Mfg.	Component		unit weight (grams)		total weight (grams)
		813J- Med Coarse Aluminum		86.2		86.2
1962-63 Silver Mist		811J -Med Aluminum		90.4		176.6
***see Note above!		805J -Jet Black		39.8		216.4
formula for 1.00 quart(+)	Dupont	852J -Transparent Red		9.6		226.0
	Chromabase	891J -Transox Red		2.2		228.2
	Urethane	881J -(unknown)		3.9		232.1
Color-matched to original	Basecoat	150K -BC Balancer		566.0		798.1
Dealership Fandeck		175K -Binder		111.0		909.1
		VOC-LE 5.9
		VOC-EP 4.9

 

From RayLin Restoration web site – Ray Fitchthorn

For painting body, changed Med. Coarse aluminum flake to Coarse at Luzo Auto, New Bedford, MA to get more sparkle. June 28,2021.

 

The body area to be painted is about 125-150 square feet, so it won't take a lot of paint.  Only the outsides of the panels get painted, the insides are bare aluminum.  

 

I just got a call from the guy helping with the registration, looks like we have a plan!

 

Color photo from 1932 of car #25 and other cars in background.

 

Studebaker GT Hawk with Silver Mist paint.

 

My car unpainted.

 

The pieces of the body, less the tail.  Total weight is 100-125 lbs of 0.062" thick type 3003-H14 aluminum.

 

 

[Gary_Ash]

Now that the registration process is in motion (hoping to complete this week) I've been thinking about what the license plate should be.  The car will be registered as an "antique" for a variety of reasons, so I can use a generic antique plate, an old year-of-manufacture plate, or an "antique vanity" plate.  I don't want the generic one as it could be any random number, and an old YOM plate is going to be in questionable condition anyway, so I'm focusing on a vanity plate.  Massachusetts rules are that the maximum number of characters is six and any numbers have to go at the end, no mixing of numbers and letters.  With that in mind, I created some artwork for some candidates.  Which one do you like?  Any other suggestions?  I haven't found a way to look up which antique vanity plates have already been issued, so I just have to apply with three ranked choices, pay $50 a year for the privilege of using the plate plus a $25 transfer fee from a standard plate. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[alsfarms]

I cast my vote for the first plate in first place and last plate in second place.

[95Cardinal]

9 hours ago, alsfarms said:

I cast my vote for the first plate in first place and last plate in second place.

I agree!

[edinmass]

I vote for the last one.  I would put the number first.

Edited July 1, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Gary_Ash]

Ed, it's MASSACHUSETTS!  You know we have rules, lots of them.  Can't put numbers first and then put letters, only letters first and then numbers or all numbers or all letters, but nothing deemed "obscene".  We go to the Registry of Motor Vehicles and say, "Yes sir, yes sir, three bags full, sir!", then we hand over the money - lots of it - and slink away to lick our wounds...  

[edinmass]

Gary, had no idea it was no numbers first........you see, I refuse to give Massachuetts more money than they already rip me off for. Thus, I won’t pay the extra money for a vanity plate. I got tired of yearly registrations and extra costs for the year of manufacture plate also. Down in Florida, my 1917 White has a plain “regular” plate on it. I get more questions from people about the regular plate registration than most anything else. I absolutely refuse to pay extra for anything related to government anymore. It just makes me sick......

[Mike Macartney]

6 hours ago, edinmass said:

I vote for the last one.

 

That one also gets my vote.

Edited July 1, 2021 by Mike Macartney
wanted to remove some (see edit history)

[Gary_Ash]

Well, there is a precedent for a similar plate on a similar car.

 

[DavidAU]

On 7/1/2021 at 5:31 PM, Mike Macartney said:

 

That one also gets my vote.

I'm with Mike.  Isn't it great when a build gets to this stage.

[Gary_Ash]

My daughter Amanda and her husband John are visiting for a couple of weeks with their two kids.  So, I've been giving rides around the driveway - still no registration! - to all of them.  Amanda works in the Netherlands for Shell, so we taped an old Shell logo on the car and took some photos of her at the wheel with goggles.  Having made enough circuits around the island in my paved driveway, I decided to head down the grass driveway and up the little hill to the adjoining field.  It's rained every day for the last two weeks, so the ground is pretty soft.  I gunned the engine to run up the hill, managed to chew a good strip of the grass, and flung mud all over John and me.  Fenderless cars do have their downsides, LOL.  The engine is really torquey, will be lots of fun.

 

Amanda at the wheel.

 

John and I ending our excursion to the field.

 

The aftermath.  It will grow back.

 

 

 

 

[Terry Harper]

Gary,

I am so glad to see you enjoy the fruits of your labor! You deserve it! Wonderful car, amazing project, most excellent results!

[edinmass]

2 hours ago, Terry Harper said:

Gary,

I am so glad to see you enjoy the fruits of your labor! You deserve it! Wonderful car, amazing project, most excellent results!

 

Unless the mud stuck to that nice new tin and now he has to clean it! I’m certain Gary’s bride was not as caviler about the lawn!

Edited July 14, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history)

[13CADDY]

Gary, do you plan onbringing it to Indy in Sept. for the meet ?     Tom

[Gary_Ash]

We’ll be in Indianapolis with the car Sept. 4-8 for the ASC part of the meet and my talk on Wednesday afternoon for SDC, but need to leave on the 9th to get back for the Glidden Tour in Saratoga, where we’ll drive the 1941 Commander.  I know that Virgil Exner, Sr. drove his #22 Indy car from Detroit to Lime Rock, CT for the races in the late 1940’s with 15-year old Virgil Jr as passenger, but I’m trailering my car to Indy. Heck, there isn’t even a place to put registration papers in the car, let alone luggage. 

 

And, Ed, my wife doesn’t object to me tearing up the lawn as long as I don’t run over her flowers or berry bushes. She will give me the eye roll, though. 

[Gary_Ash]

Time for paint!  I took all the body panels off the car, a task of about 2 hours.  Take out the upholstery (unsnap 30+ snaps), jack up the rear axle, drop the belly pan, undo the seat belts from under the car, take off the gas cap because it won't fit through the hole in the tail, remove the exhaust pipe, take off 16 acorn nuts on the cowl and tail, pull the cowl off, lift the tail off (two people), remove the hood panels (two bolts) and engine side panels (pull out four hinge pins).  I managed to fit all but the belly pan in the Expedition for the trip to the paint shop, made a second trip for the belly pan.  At least the Luzo Auto Center in New Bedford is less than 15 minutes from home.  They previously painted the chassis. 

 

The total weight of the seven body pieces is about 105 lbs yielding about 125 square feet to be painted.  The tail is the heaviest piece at 40 lbs, the belly pan 25 lbs, others 5-20 lbs.  Victor's crew will sand all the surfaces to be painted with ~220 grit, apply Bondo to smooth some of the less-smooth spots, then put on etching primer for aluminum, some high-build primer, sand all smooth at each stage, and finally get to base/clear paint.  He pointed out some wavy areas on the belly pan, but I assured him that only the squirrels that I ran over would get a glimpse of the bottom of the pan.  Only the outsides of the panels and wired/rolled edges get paint, though some masking will be required to limit overspray on the back sides.  He'll paint two of the easy parts for my approval of the color even though we made test panels, then shoot the rest of the pieces.  He was going to power-wash everything this afternoon to get any grease off, then start the team on the rest of the process.  It should be done in about two weeks.  Victor was documenting the project for their records.  I'll stop by to watch progress.  It helps to speak a little Azorean Portuguese in New Bedford as up to 60% of the population speaks it as a first language at home as a result of the whaling days of the 1800s.  Bom dia!

 

 

Body panels at the paint shop.

 

The body and paint shop in New Bedford.  Great guys, great work, affordable.

 

[edinmass]

Be sure to go to the Portuguese club and get the buffet. The rabbit and rice is to die for, and the bifana and Bacalhau are great also. The tripe and pig ear stew with beans is fantastic, but an acquired taste. Here are some shots of the Azores, the road with a 35 percent grade was interesting.(Almost two miles long, and too steep to walk comfortably) I had to back up two miles, as the Peugeot was a three cylinder and couldn’t climb it in first gear. The wife was NOT happy!

.

Edited July 20, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Gary_Ash]

Ed, we've been to the Azores twice, visited the islands of Sao Miguel, Faial, and Pico.  My wife's family sent a son from Boston to the Azores in the 1770s to escape the oncoming Revolutionary war.  He established an office of the family trading company that shipped goods between the Azores and Boston for 100+ years, but the family eventually moved back to the Boston area as trade diminished.  My wife still has a few distant cousins on Sao Miguel and Faial.  If you've been to Furnas, you might have visited the old family home with the hot springs.  Yes, driving there is a real challenge!   

[edinmass]

Yes, I have spent time in Furnace, the estate by the lake is the family home? Neat.  I can smell the sulfur as I type this.