Sign in to follow this  
jims41LC

1941 LC heater questions

Recommended Posts

In working on my '41 LC Coupe, I have been slowly preserving , maintaining it.

I am working on the heating system. It is a hot water system and has front seat underseat heaters . The mesh was crushed onto the fans, and the power wire was cut to them. I am working on those repairs. But in looking under the dash I don' t see the heater unit. So here are the questions.

Anyone have an idea where to get one? If available any tips on figuring out the controls, heat , fan (s) switches, etc?

Are there sources for modern retro-fit systems that work , but don't penalize me if I enter the LC in car shows , etc?

Appreciate the help.

Jim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jim. Page 332 of the master Lincoln Chassis Parts Catalog show the complete layout of the hot water heating system for you car. You NEED this book as a constant source of parts layout operation on your car. So many questions are answered by just looking in this book for illustrations of the various operational parts. If you are a member of the Lincoon Zephyr Owners Club you will find the suppliers of these missing or broken parts. Earle Brown under the "sources" icon on this LZOC website is a source of many mechanical LIncoln parts. The master chasis parts catalog is the number one go to for your need Lincoln library. I am surprised that so many Lincoln Zephyr owners do not own a copy of this valauble book. IT answers so many questions.

You need to become a member of the Lincoln Zephyr Owners Club. So much helpful information on our cars is avaliable from members.

Car judging is based on what the car looked like and contained when newly manufactured. Not original... points are deducted. Exhibitors strive for originality.

Get the master parts book...worth its weight in gold.

Happy New Year and enjoy you Zephrying.

Merv Atkins also on the website under "sources" is also an excellent source of Lincoln parts since he is in your are on the West Coast. Very knowledgeable LZOC club member.

Come join us. We are here to help you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

41 LC had manifold heaters. Hot water heater came out in 46. I'm working on a 42 That had no heater listed on build sheet. Shipped to California. 42 may have been the first underseat heaters. I'll look in my parts book this evening. Lee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you John and Lee

John I will most likely join the LZOC. I am looking for the Chassis Manual you mentioned, so far I have found a Body

Parts one though.

Lee, I am curious as to why I have the underseat heaters too, but they are there along with the coolant lines. According to the Boos-Herrell folks there seems to be these on the 41's but shown as part of the under dash unit . What I don' t see is any evidence of the manifold heater setup. Not sure but maybe this was delivered as a non - heater car, then a previous owner started to add a heater. A mystery wrapped in a 73 year old car.The investigation continues.

Thanks everyone for the help.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry Lee, you are incorrect...1941 Lincolns HAD available to them either a hot air or hot water heating system. Lincoln production record cards show the option..either hot air or hot water. Even your 42LC had hot water heating systems available. The hot air system was phased out in 1946...a few 1946 models had the hot air system. 1941 Lincoln chassis parts catalog list two pages of parts for the 1941 Lincolns. There is a accessory bulletin that Lincoln put out in 1941 listing the optional hot water heating system for their cars. Even the 1940 Liincoln chassis parts catalog lists a very rare 06H 18455 hot water heater complete with dual defrostethes as special equipment. Also, my 1940 LZ Brunn towncar has the hot water heater system. The hot water heater system was available in 1941 for Lincoln cars...both Continental and Zephyrs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you for the update. We bought and sold Continentals in the 50's and 60's and had just never saw a hot water heater in a 41. Most of our Continentals were bought in California and Florida. I was in Ohio at the time. Lee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

John

Thanks for the offer. I ordered the Master Chassis book from Naragansett last week, but probably been delayed due to the bad weather back yonder. I got an original Master Body Book from E-bay and recieved that yesterday. Lots of studying to do!

Thanks, Jim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Jim, interesting question, hope all can help find what you need. Tom Akins in southern Ohio has gone thru many Zephyrs with hands & eyes- very smart helpful guy. May have some parts you need from his salvage yard of many Zephyrs over the years, if Merv Adkins can't in CA! I have never been there but many have talked of it. Don't know how close the '40 and '41's were, John can probably help more there. My '40 hot water under dash photo is below (not much time to clean it up yet!)- is listed on my archives build sheet. But no sign of under seat heaters in mine. If you search on this site under FORUM SEARCH for heaters or hot water heaters, there are many threads and photos you may find interesting. But your question makes me wonder, like Jeff says, in these cold Ohio days!, could you originally get both under dash and under seat options at the same time, or just one or did they come as pair? Have never seen the under seat type, would be great if you could post a picture of what they look like. Cheers, Paul

post-45349-143142348209_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Paul,

I will get a picture of them up. I have the bottom seat unit out so they will be very visible.I haven' t traced the coolant lines to see where they end yet. I' ll keep the forum posted on my findings. I am curious too as to whether you could have the underseat and under dash units together or as separate units. So far I haven't found any evidence of ducting or defroster nozzles missing either . I think all these old Lincolns are fascinating mysteries.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have 2 pictures of the under seat heaters. As you can see the covers are off . The blades spin freely, so maybe the bearings are still good. I am still going to check them over though. I checked under the car and there are no coolant lines hooked up, more to investigate. Also I couldn't find a water valve on the engine. I thought it was at the rear .but I haven't looked from under the car up at the bottom side of the engine.

post-96607-143142349598_thumb.jpg

post-96607-143142349626_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
post-45349-143142349997_thumb.jpgVery cool, thanks for the photos! Heated seats long before electric heated seats! I do not have a good photo of the head hot water port/valve here on my hard drive, maybe someone else has a better view. But here is a photo I saved off the web. Can see the brass valve off to the side of the oil canister about 10:00 o'clock, just below the return hose to the radiator. Paul

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jim, there is no coolant being circulated ....just hot water. The fan blows the hot air being heated by the hot water from the driver's engine head. Just a simple system. The valve you might need can be found on eBay 121255290168. The valve is left open in the winter and closed off during the summer days. Just touch the fan wires to your 6 volt car battery. The fan will turn if good. If dead, I may have one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

40 zeph sedan...Paul, your heater hose is connected in 1940 to your drivers side water pump. 1941 cars had their hot water source from the valve in the drivers side head. I'm sure you meant the water pump not radiator

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks , John. Yes the water is circulated, but as I have only lived in freezing climates we use anti- freeze- coolant -water mix in the system. I see the plug on the water pump where a valve could go you mentioned to Paul. I am going to crawl underneath and look to see if the valve is or was on the head on mine. I finally got the Master Parts Book this week from Naragansett. Looks like the online download I got at Boos-H. Love it.

Do you think I can just hook up water lines with a valve and just use heat as needed, provided the fans work and are switched? Would this be a kosher setup, or better to go with the Master Parts diagrams and seek all the parts and pieces?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jim...wjy do you have to crawl underneathe to find the valve? The valve should be in plain sight on the drivers side engine head if you have one. If not there then you should have a plug. If you have an aluminum head with a plug in it, be very careful in removing it as electrolisis might have bound the plug to the head and removing it night cause the head to crack. Many drivers side aluminum heads were ruined because of this problem.

Check the fan motors by touching the wires to your 6 volt battery. I have a good fan motor if needed. If you have the firewall heater unit, then you should be good to go with heat. The Chassis parts book illustration shows the proper hookup. If it was me living in Washington State I'd hole up for the winter and just venture out in the warm weather...course I'm in Florida...:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I checked the fans and they run great. The valve on the head isn't visible will check for a plug. The heads are original , but always careful with old iron.

John, I agree , I am going too keep the LC inside and safe from the elements and get it ready fo the warm days whenever thet get here. Thank you for the fan offer, looks like I am good there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jim, if you will look at ebay 121255290168 you will find the valve you need for the drivers side head. If you "ain't" got it...get it...Thats what you need.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is a drivers side (L) water pump on a '40 with hot water heat. Is this a special pump part number? Or do all the 40's have the same left pump, but some with a plug instead of a pipe nipple? Paul

post-45349-143142414445_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Paul...all Lincolns from 1940 thru 1948 used driver's side water pump body 06H 8504 with a plug since that pump supplied the hot water for the hot water heating system. Cars with hot air heating system used the 06H 8502 B water pump body no hole. 38 and 39 Lincolns used 86H 8503 and 86H 8504 water pumps. 36 and 37 used water pumps H 8601 B and H 8602 B,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Probably all left water pumps after 1940 had either a plug or a nipple in it. You can get an exact duplicate of the water valve on the head from NAPA and the price is reasonable

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have not seen hot water under dash on Continentals, usually it is manifold hot air heat, 41's had water operated underseat heaters, but not the square

post war style, it was curved around the fan then square across the other end... The hot air heaters seem to heat better and hotter than the water type..in my experience..I have made some cold drives. Jim Zeffer had a 41 Cabriolet that belonged to dancer Paul Draper that had em if I recall...no pictures

--The waterpump has pipe thread and uses a edelmen style brass threaded nipple ..and the cylinder head either the same, with a valve in line in the hose or a valve screwed into the head ...with a 90 degree fitting for the hose

Edited by Mssr. Bwatoe (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We had 5 41 coupes and 2 41 Cabriolets at Reliable Upholstery in Newark, Ohio all had the manifold heaters. The 46 to 48 had Defroster under the dash and 2 underseat heaters. My 42 has an underseat heater but no defroster under dash. The original carpert is still in the car and has no cut outs.. The Wrigley 42 cabriolet only has a left underseat heater but it has the defroster under dash like a 46. They were stripping the upholstery last Saturday and the underlay floor padding had no cut outs on the right side just an underseat heater on the drivers side.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey lee,

I used to see 2 or 3 41 Continentals parked off 23 south outside of Cowtown, maybe closer to Delaware...sat there for years...I never

bothered with stopping, football saturday and such..were these yours?? seems very coincidental late 80's...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this