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1917 Paige Flywheel Repair Possibilities?


FightinFire31

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post-91686-143142332539_thumb.jpgHere is our flywheel to a 1917 Paige. As you can tell from the pictures it has severe tooth damage. It does NOT have a ring gear. This is a solid piece. The question is, does anyone know anybody who specializes in tooth repair via welding. The possibility to turn the wheel and have a ring gear placed on it is an option, albeit an expensive one. Please pm me or send a reply on here. Thank you for any help or leads. Daniel and Steve.

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An engine tends to stop in the same place every time it is shut down. This is why ring gears will show this kind of pattern.

You may want to be sure that the starter and ring teeth are matching. You never know how many repairs or replacements have been done in that short 96 years.

I am sorry I dont have an answer for repair, I would research the machining and replacement of the ring. Just be sure of diameter and tooth count. There has to be a good machinist left out there someplace.

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Dan& Steve-- Have you talked to an automotive engine rebuilding shop? I think you may be surprised that the cost of cutting the old teeth off and replacing them with a new ring gear may be just a little bit more or less than having the teeth welded, hardened, tempered, and re-cut. But the upside is you would then have a complete(new ring gear) repair rather than a band aid fix where the the next segment is waiting to go bad. Only my thoughts, and from personal experience. Good luck. -- Bob

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Methinks finding a ring gear of the correct diameter, tooth pitch, and tooth profile is slim to nil. Possibly a new pinion can be made to match a new ring that would otherwise work. Weld build up and tooth recutting is feasible. New teeth can also be formed without welding or with a combination of mechanical and welding. Very doable but not for the average DIY hobby shop...............Bob

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If it was mine I would braze the chewed teeth and file them to shape. For limited use it should last a long time. Put the flywheel back on the engine in a different position so fresh teeth will be in the high stress position.

I didn't know anybody made a flywheel with the teeth cut in. They tried to do it that way but the teeth were too soft, that is why they all went to a shrunk on ring gear.

What make of starter? Did some other car use the same starter with a separate ring gear? I know its a long shot. What about a later model of the same car or engine?

Or you could try advertising for a flywheel.

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The flywheel on my Metallurgique has had the original teeth which were part of the flywheel, machined off and a normal type ring gear installed.

This is a pretty simple job for any machine shop provided you can get the right sized ring gear for them to be able to measure and machine the flywheel for an interference fit.

If you change the ringear you may also have to adapt the starter pinion to suit the tooth count and dia. of the new ring gear.

There is a company in New Zealand that specializes in this type of thing so it may be worth an email or two.

http://www.ringgear.co.nz/Our_Products.shtml

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I'm with Bhigdog Bob on this. Trying to reengineer all the variables of tooth pitch, dimensions, etc. and get it right is slim. I don't think its neccessary in this case. Have a compitent welder TIG build up the damaged teeth There is a lot of tooth material on the rest of the flywheel to use as a gauge. Make a mold with cardboard around some good teeth and use a pourable plastic from Smooth-on plastics. As for the welder, search for a welder that repairs diecast molds for industry. Diecast molds when they crack are often repaired rather than replaced. This maybe overkill of using this type of welder, but has high quality. Once done, use small rotary carbides and hand file to the correct profile. In my personal almanac I found: Al Suehring, Flywheel Ring Gears, (715) 677-3809 al@suehring.com if you still want to go with replacing the ring gear. Also check the starter gear for damage. One gear damaged will ruin the mating gear in a heart beat.

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Ive had them welded them up and ground to the original shape with great results. When you reinstall the assembly you may be able to install it 90 or 180 degrees from its original position. If you don't want to tackle this job call N. Y. Manufacturing and they can help you. It is located in Rochester NY ,a small shop and they will get it done at a fair price .I would guess$ 150-$ 250 Call 585 254 9353 Mike

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Are you absolutely 100% sure that's one of Paiges' "own" engines???

Std car says Paige built all its own engines thru the WWI years, but I've got old replacement parts catalogs showing various Cont'ls back to 1914, with some models with a Rutenber 23 and 25 (may be misprint for 22-25 as the 25 succeeded the 22) 1916-19...

If you think it may possibly be a Cont'l try Garrad (Gerry/Jerry) Moon at Monte's in Chicago, obsolete Cont'l parts dealers...he'll need any letters/numberscast or stamped on the engine for ID. If a Cont'l that same flywheel may've been used on other makes of the period...

garradmoon@montes@flash.net or montesequipment.com

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Contact: [TABLE=width: 601]

<tbody>[TR]

[TD]Al Suehring[/TD]

[TD]100589 Krogwold Road Amherst Junction WI 54407[/TD]

[TD]715-677-3809[/TD]

[/TR]

</tbody><colgroup><col><col><col></colgroup>[/TABLE]

He is the KING of ring gears !

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I am with David on this. I 'was' working at a well known (here in Brisbane Qld) resto shop on a 1913 Vulcan which has the same problem. The flywheel was also made in one peice with the teeth being machined into the rim of the flywheel . I tried to get the shop propietor to do as David suggested,. it's not complicated,in fact it is very basic machine work to simply remove the teeth which are too soft anyway and get a ring gear made from high carbon steel which can then be shrunk on as per normal. Unfortunatelty the shop propeitor was not mechanically savvy enough to under stand this... As result the car is impossible to start with the electric starter . There are lots of ring gear makers around the world who only need a few dimensions to put into their CNC work centers and presto!, you have a ring gear.

The flywheel on my Metallurgique has had the original teeth which were part of the flywheel, machined off and a normal type ring gear installed.

This is a pretty simple job for any machine shop provided you can get the right sized ring gear for them to be able to measure and machine the flywheel for an interference fit.

If you change the ringear you may also have to adapt the starter pinion to suit the tooth count and dia. of the new ring gear.

There is a company in New Zealand that specializes in this type of thing so it may be worth an email or two.

http://www.ringgear.co.nz/Our_Products.shtml

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If there is any doubt about the engine's origin consider this; While I don't have specs for 1917, Just a year later, 1918, the Paige 6-39 (3 1/8 x 5) had a Rutenber engine and the Paige 6-55 had an engine (3 1/2 x 5 1/4) made by Continental. Rutenber was in only a few obscure makes, American, Glide, Madison, but the Continental engine was in quite a few including Auburn, Jordan, Moon and Velie. So, could there be a spare lurking out there somewhere?

Another approach would be to re-position the flywheel so it would stop in a different place. Or, if you would stoop to being really really pragmatic, don't do anything. Just rev the enging as you shut it down so it stops at random places. A friend does this with his trophy winning XK140 Jaguar and it works every time. His Jag is driven frequently. How often will the Paige be?

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