1963 Riviera lift points?

[JanZverina]

I did a little bit of searching on this question in both the shop manuals and on this forum, but I'm still unclear as to where are the best points to lift a '63 Riviera - I need some prop shaft/U work done and want to make sure the shop does it right. Does anyone have a diagram or a clear description of how the car should be lifted using today's typical service lifts?

Thanks!

[CheezeMan]

I did a little bit of searching on this question in both the shop manuals and on this forum, but I'm still unclear as to where are the best points to lift a '63 Riviera - I need some prop shaft/U work done and want to make sure the shop does it right. Does anyone have a diagram or a clear description of how the car should be lifted using today's typical service lifts?

Thanks!

Lift by the frame, not the body. You don't want all that weight of the chassis being held by the body mounts. If not lifted correctly, you can cause body damage. see chart below for some locations to lift from. Note that modern lifts may not work on these old cruciform frames. always ask the guy lifting if his lift supports an x-frame. if he doesn't know what an x-frame is, you may want to go somewhere else.

[JanZverina]

Thanks, Chuck - much appreciated! I've printed them and will make sure the shop follows this guidance. Here are a couple more pix of my new purchase. Giving the paint some TLC with a light wet sanding and compound/polish. Yes, that's a later-model Riviera hood ornament that the previous owner installed many years ago, unfortunately drilling through the tri-shield emblem. I see that the hood splitter/spear is one long piece except for the tail on the cowl. Is it still available somewhere or has it entered the Unobtainium Catalog?

[RivNut]

Jan,

Search for other threads that talk about this same subject that also show pictures of adapters that guys have made to use different kinds of lifts.

Ed

[Guest Rob J]

Lift by the frame, not the body. You don't want all that weight of the chassis being held by the body mounts. If not lifted correctly, you can cause body damage. see chart below for some locations to lift from. Note that modern lifts may not work on these old cruciform frames. always ask the guy lifting if his lift supports an x-frame. if he doesn't know what an x-frame is, you may want to go somewhere else.

Very cool service info pics. Where are these pages from? I think I'm going to print these out, laminate them, and hang them in my shop.

[tenugent]

Theres a 63 spear on ebay-63 riviera parts.T.Nugent roa 12969...

[RivNut]

Jan,

Do you need the entire spear or just a new emblem?

[JanZverina]

Jan,

Do you need the entire spear or just a new emblem?

As far as I can tell just the tri-shield emblem, which I see in the shop manual is separate.

[tenugent]

63 hood emblem-Cars,inc. page43.T.Nugent...

[JanZverina]

63 hood emblem-Cars,inc. page43.T.Nugent...

Thanks, Tenugent. They say OOS until Feb.

[RivNut]

Until you can get a repo from CARS or find something else, just put a quarter in the hole. I doubt if too many folks would even notice. There are probably all sorts of Buick emblems the size of a quarter out there; just find one you like. It could be something as detailed as the original with the red/white/blue tri-shields, a modern version of that, or something round with the silver R in it. Anything an inch in diameter.

Perhaps a hat pin or tie tac would work for a while.

Like this?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Automotive-collectibles-Buick-Logo-tac-style-pin-/201010428640?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ecd27bae0

Edited December 30, 2013 by RivNut (see edit history)

[RockinRiviDad]

Very cool service info pics. Where are these pages from? I think I'm going to print these out, laminate them, and hang them in my shop.

X2

Cheezeman Chuck, Thank you for posting those pages

David

[CheezeMan]

Very cool service info pics. Where are these pages from? I think I'm going to print these out, laminate them, and hang them in my shop.

Rob, I don't recall where I got 'em from. I do lots of internet searching and save anything relevant that I can find. These were some beauties that I captured some time ago. Got loads of files in my computer. I think I need a Google app on my PC just to find all of the stuff that I already have stored on my hard disk.

[Ckerch]

I am wanting to work on my 64 Riviera and put it on my Challenger 2 post versymmetric  lift. When looking for lift points, I came across this thread. In the picture above, it looks like you would put the rear pad just rearward of the lower control arm connection point at the X frame. However, looking at point, the frame starts sloping up just shortly after. Not sure I can get he whole pad on a flat surface. If I go forward of the connection point, that puts it closer to the X part of the frame. 

Does everyone  use these lift points shown in the picture above or do you use other ones?

[RivNut]

The bolts holding the body on the frame are now 57 years old and have probably been exposed to a lot of corrosive elements. Therefore your only lift points are the frame. DO NOT attempt to lift the car using pinch welds or any other part of the body.  If you do, you’ll have a body on the lift and a chassis on the ground.  I had my 64 on a two post lift for a while.  It takes some time to find the correct points on the X frame to lift the car and have it balance.  It can be done if the lift is big enough. The lift positions in the illustration are on the X frame.

[telriv]

I lift mine for the rear on the point of the frame that the lower control arm bracket is welded to the frame. Nice wide area & the car is balanced nicely.  Have been doing the same thing since 1964 with no problems. Some of the arms aren't long enough to accomadate such so you may/will have to do something else.  I think with some lifts you can get extenders to be able to do such.

 

Tom T.

[Ckerch]

 

 

New to using a lift and I thought my rear arms were long enough but could only reach the point on the frame just before the lower control arm. It does make it a little more bouncing than my other vehicle but that is probably because the arms are fully extended. I check but they don't make extenders for my lift. Probably will go to Harbor freight and buy a couple of under hoist safety stands for good measure.

 

Thanks for the feedback.

[telriv]

Just before the lower control arm to the front of it or the rear???

[Ckerch]

12 hours ago, telriv said:

Just before the lower control arm to the front of it or the rear???

Just in front of the lower control arm bracket(closer to the X part of the frame)

[telriv]

More rearward right at the point where the welded support is for the lower control arms.  At this point closer to the rear of the vehicle the frame is "spreading" out from the "X".

Kinda understand???

 

Tom T.

[Ckerch]

15 minutes ago, telriv said:

More rearward right at the point where the welded support is for the lower control arms.  At this point closer to the rear of the vehicle the frame is "spreading" out from the "X".

Kinda understand???

 

Tom T.

Tom

It is definitely rearward of the X and adjacent  to the bracket. I can get a picture tomorrow

[Ckerch]

12 hours ago, telriv said:

More rearward right at the point where the welded support is for the lower control arms.  At this point closer to the rear of the vehicle the frame is "spreading" out from the "X".

Kinda understand???

 

Tom T.

Tom

 

Took these this morning.

It is kind on similar to the Chevy X frame lift points. 

 

 

I would assume this would shift my balance point using the Chevy method.

My only other option is to make up a frame extender similar to below. Not sure if this would be any better.

 

 

 

[RivNut]

When I had my '64 on a hoist a couple of years ago, we made some "extenders" as you pictured.  Worked well.  The extenders moved the lift points farther apart both front to back and side to side.  Much more steady.

[Ckerch]

4 hours ago, RivNut said:

When I had my '64 on a hoist a couple of years ago, we made some "extenders" as you pictured.  Worked well.  The extenders moved the lift points farther apart both front to back and side to side.  Much more steady.

 

I might have to go that way because it does seem bouncy. With the car up about 18", I rocked it pretty hard and did not move at the pads but concerned when raising/lowering the car. 

I would want to make sure the extender is not the weak link and not having a Mechanical Engineering background, do you remember what size tubing  and wall thickness you used? I assumed you made one for the front and one for the rear. Do you remember any bowing in the extender?

 

Thanks for the feedback

[RivNut]

I do not know the wall thickness but from what I recall, it was very close to the same thickness as the lift arms.  The shop where my car was being housed was just down the street from Shawnee Iron and Steel. The shop proprietor had someone from the iron & steel place drop by the shop, take some measurements, and in a few days, deliver the finished goods. The proprietor just had to mount the pads. Sorry,I don't know more.

[Ckerch]

31 minutes ago, RivNut said:

I do not know the wall thickness but from what I recall, it was very close to the same thickness as the lift arms.  The shop where my car was being housed was just down the street from Shawnee Iron and Steel. The shop proprietor had someone from the iron & steel place drop by the shop, take some measurements, and in a few days, deliver the finished goods. The proprietor just had to mount the pads. Sorry,I don't know more.

 

Actually that is a lot of help. For the price of safety, this would be a good option then I am not guessing if I used the right size tubing.

 

Thanks

Carl

[telriv]

The rear arms appear to be long enough.  If you move the arms more to the rear where the welded portion for the lower control arms reside the arms will not have to be exended any further. Roll the car forward about 4" or so & you will be good to go.

 

Tom T.

[Zimm63]

I built this rig some years ago, and it works well.  The cross beams are  2 X 4 1/4 wall steel.  The lift pads are placed to be in the correct spots when all is adjusted properly.  Finally, the cross beams are locked into the arms with lift pad extenders.  It took some work with various sizes of holes saws to make.  

 

Is it easy to put the car on?  Not really, it requires a fair bit of crawling around.  But, I can lift the car with confidence that it is supported to the point that an arm cannot kick out and it won't kill me.  Thats worth some crawling around in my book.

 

[RivNut]

I wonder what it would take to make some 2 x 12 (stacked) wood ramps that would allow you to assemble the lift as shown, put the ramps in place, drive the car onto the ramps, lift the car, then remove the ramps.  You might not have to lie on your back.  

[Ckerch]

12 hours ago, telriv said:

The rear arms appear to be long enough.  If you move the arms more to the rear where the welded portion for the lower control arms reside the arms will not have to be exended any further. Roll the car forward about 4" or so & you will be good to go.

 

Tom T.

Tom

Both front and rear arms are fully extended. With is being an asymmetrical lift, the front arms are shorter so  I  positioned the car so I could get the pad in the correct front lift point and that left the rear in the point in the picture. The other concern was, by positioning the the car so the front is on the correct lift point, it cause the car to also be more rearward in the relation to the lift columns. According to the lift instructions, Challenger likes the columns to a aligned to the front of the drivers seat and I know every car balance point is different but that is probably a good rule of thumb. Right now it is positioned close to the middle of the floor board. Not off much (maybe 6-8"). I am new to having a lift ( actually this is only the second vehicle I have had on a lift) so I don't have much experience with this and if this is a problem. It seems to be level at this position.

[Ckerch]

On 6/6/2021 at 3:13 PM, Zimm63 said:

I built this rig some years ago, and it works well.  The cross beams are  2 X 4 1/4 wall steel.  The lift pads are placed to be in the correct spots when all is adjusted properly.  Finally, the cross beams are locked into the arms with lift pad extenders.  It took some work with various sizes of holes saws to make.  

 

Is it easy to put the car on?  Not really, it requires a fair bit of crawling around.  But, I can lift the car with confidence that it is supported to the point that an arm cannot kick out and it won't kill me.  Thats worth some crawling around in my book.

 

Good job on the extenders

Do you remember the metal wall thickness or did you use solid bars ?

Did you create new pads or use your lift pads?

I take it when you say they are locked in, you used round sleeves welded into the extender and that is inserted into the lift arm hole on the end. Is that correct? 

Did you position the pads per the lift points below or on top of the lower control bracket? The reason I ask is the frame in the rear location starts angling up shortly after the bracket.

I have seen ones that have a notch with gussets for the drive shaft but that seems that it would be near impossible to get on the lift.  

Your design looks more practical .  I would imagine after some practice, it gets easier the more you use it.

I know this is a lot of questions but would like to learn from your experience.

 

Thank You

Carl

Edited June 8, 2021 by Ckerch (see edit history)

[Zimm63]

My lift is an older Ben Pearson.  The cylinders have been rebuilt and new cables installed.  

 

It came with removable steel pads on the ends of the arms.  It also came with "pad extenders" that allows the pads to be set higher for trucks etc.   While I didn't have the advantage of the lift point chart when I built it, I think its pretty close.  The rear pads hit at the front of the control arms and the fronts are just before the frame curves up, if I recall.  I will try to take some more pictures next time I have the car on it.  

 

Once I figured out the location of the pads, I used a hole saw on a milling machine to cut the right size hole for the pads.  The ends were secured with the extenders by the same method, but two hole saws were needed as the extenders are bigger at one end (to accept the pad) than the other, which goes into the arm.  

 

Even with all that, I still try not to think about 5,600 pounds of Riv over my head.  

[Ckerch]

Zimm63

 

Those spots you you use are the ones I am shooting for. That aligns more to chevy X frame. It would be a tight fit to get a pad in rearward of the lower control arm bracket before it slopes up. I thought about getting under the LCA bracket/frame but worried I would bend the bracket because it sits slightly lower than the frame.

 

I am with you about having all the weight above my head but sure beats being on a crawler.

 

Thanks for everyone's feedback

Carl