Should I buy these Rolls Royces?

[Rusty_OToole]

I have wanted a Rolls for a long time but they are pretty expensive, even used ones. Then I saw this ad:

"Estate Sale. Two 81's for sale WAS $15000. each. Will consider a package deal of $25,000.

Silver Spur -Silver 45 000 miles AS IS. NEW PRICE $13,500.

Silver Spur -Blue over painted was white 110 000 miles AS IS. NEW PRICE $ 13,000."

Now I am thinking of buying the pair and selling one of them in the spring, and end up with a Rolls for a few thousand dollars.

Any Rolls Royce experts who can tell me what I should look for if I view them?

I have 20 years experience working in garages and body shops, have my own tools, and have owned 8 Mercedes ranging from 1958 to 1984 but never worked on a Rolls Royce.

[Rusty_OToole]

You never know your luck. I checked the ads again and this turned up:

Very clean, great running Rolls. Interior shows signs of usage but is tear-free. Body does have small issues. High mileage but low price. From the estate of percussionist Peter Appleyard.

This one is a 1987 Silver Spirit with 295,000 Km or 180,000 miles.

These are the first Rolls Royces I have seen in the local ads for under $20,000 that weren't wrecks or from the 70s or both.

Incidentally there is a 69 Silver Shadow for $10,000 and a 74 for $15,000 if a Silver Shadow would be a better car or easier to keep in repair?

[West Peterson]

Usually they're a lot less expensive to buy than they are to maintain, but if you discover how to work on them yourself, that might work out for you. Search the Internet for forums dealing with the specific models. If you find a group, that solves 90 of the battle right there. If you can't find a help group, I'd recommend treading the R-R waters very carefully.

[Trulyvintage]

Do you like to buy hard to find car parts at high prices ?

Do you like to work on cars that will empty your wallet - fill up your driveway - and never leave ?

If so - buy a Rolls Royce or a Range Rover

Jim

[Kimo]

You may want to take a day or two and do some internet research on the price of parts for those two Rolls. Even if you are able to do your own work, parts are incredibly expensive and there will be many specialized tools you would need to buy as well. There is a reason used Rolls of that vintage go for so little money to buy - the price of owning and maintaining puts the actual cost through the roof.

[alsancle]

What West said. Very cheap to buy and very expensive to maintain.

[auburnseeker]

A friend had the starter rebuilt in his 58 Rolls Silver Shadow. It was $2500. HE pulled it out and sent it away, then put it back in himself so no labor for removal or installation, Just 2500 to rebuild the starter on a bench. I sold the car for him this year. I doubt he put more than a 1000 miles on it in the 4 or 5 years he owned it.

[JV Puleo]

Somewhere on the internet I have recently seen a web site devoted to RR interchanges... all for these later cars. I have quite a bit of RR experience but almost all with pre-war cars and a few post-war 6 cylinder versions so I'm not going to express a strong opinion either way. I don't care for any of these over done post-war "luxury" cars but I can remember buying brake overhaul kits for a Jaguar that were identical to the RR kits but cost $3.00 rather than $30.00... and that was a good 25 years ago. I see no reason why a competent mechanic who is prepared to do his own work can't maintain one of these... I wouldn't be any more intimidated by it than I would be by a contemporary Mercedes...

For some reason, many people think its open season on RR owners or that they are too stupid to realize they are being taken advantage of. Believe me, they aren't all like that. Dave Fields is exactly right... a starter is a starter.

[Rusty_OToole]

Received more information by email from seller:

"They were running when purchased with a Classic Car report. No batteries now. No other info other than this as this is an estate sale. Left hand drive. It appears one had $5000. worth of suspension work at the time of purchase. A Rolls Mechanic is coming to see them and I may have more details after New years.

One in a garage is one year

One in a lot appears to be one year to make room for the other. The mechanic is a buyer sorry.

No hurry as yet. You will have to see them in the new year before any price is offered."

So, they are non runners and have been sitting at least one year (probably 5 to 10 if I know sellers) one inside, one outside.

$20,000 for the pair sounds high to me.

[Dandy Dave]

1930 RR 2025. Ring set $1,500. + Odd size cusses. Run away.. There is one around here that the owner did not want to spend the big bucks on for parts. What to do with it now??? Only time will tell. Dandy Dave!

[Rusty_OToole]

This is another thing that bugs me. Rolls Royce cars are supposed to be well made, durable cars capable of lasting a long time and running up high mileages. But everyone acts as if they are made by Fiat or Yugo when it comes to durability and repairs.

If I looked at a 1981 Chev or Chrysler that was in decent shape, not beat up and not too many miles I could be reasonably confident that I would not need to replace the engine, trans, or do any major repairs. So how can a Rolls be such an unreliable piece of ****?

[Rusty_OToole]

This is not my first rodeo. I have bought many old cars with my fingers crossed. Usually I make out ok. If I find a car is too far gone, I tidy it up as best as possible and sell it off cheap. This works as long as you don't pay too much to begin with and are savvy enough not to get sucked in on a bottomless pit of repairs. The secret is to go over the car carefully and list what needs to be done, then make up your mind in the cold light of reason before you start shelling out.

Right now I am looking for info on Rolls Royce, a car I don't know much about. I get it that parts are expensive. My hope is that I will not need too many. Is a Rolls such a shitbox that there is 0 chance it will function without major repairs when it is 30 years old, even if it has low miles?

My comparison here is Mercedes Benz. I have found them to be reasonable on parts (not cheap but not out of line if you know where to shop). Have also found them to be easier to repair than some cheaper cars, because they are well made and you have something to work with. They do not fall apart in your hands like a used Kleenex when you take them apart, the way most cars do today.

Maybe I should stick to Mercedes and not go looking for trouble.

Edited December 23, 2013 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[DavidAU]

Properly maintained they are as good as or better than any other car on the road.

A lot of people will degrade them but usually it is because they just see them as a rich mans toy or don't understand them and have no idea about how they operate and the engineering that is built into them.

Some parts are expensive if you have to buy new but there usually are alternatives and there are plenty of rebuilt parts and also cross-over charts avalible.

If you are interested you can go to the web site below and click on Tee-one Topics and you should be able to find instructions how to maintain and/repair any part of the car.

http://rroc.org.au/wiki/index.php?title=Technical_Library

[Restorer32]

As was stated on this forum in regard to another car "If you can't afford a new Rolls you can't afford a used Rolls". Remember, they were parked for a reason.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Rusty, remember that opinions are just that. Opinions. And usually uninformed ones. I say if you have the money, go for it. I have learned to respect your opinions and ideas over the years.

Just my thoughts.

Ben

[alsancle]

There is a flip side. My dad's 59 Silver Wraith has 170k miles on it with just minor maintenance performed by my dad. He's owned the car for 50 years and put 140k of those miles on. Has never failed to start and has only broken down once in 50 years. Water pump blew on 84 in Penn in the middle of no where back in 1971. Dad had to call home and have someone go to our house and grab a water pump, put it on a bus to get it. The guy that owned the local service station was really cool about helping. Picture is my junior prom circa 1981.

[alsancle]

I should point out the mechanics on the post war Silver Wraith are pretty simple and there is a bunch of GM stuff used by the factory.

[Restorer32]

Our only experience with newer Rolls' is with a pair of 1964's with brake problems. Incredibly complex braking system which hopefully they simplified by the 1980's. The 2 independent braking systems were powered by pumps that ran off the cam. On both cars the cam lobes were worn to where the pumps did not provide sufficient pressure ( about 1500 psi) to the "accumulators" that actually supplied pressure to the brakes. Pressing on the brake pedal opened valves that routed pressure to the brake cylinders, unlike "normal" hydraulic brakes where pressing on the pedal actually developes hydraulic pressure. In addition there was a 3rd sytem whose only job was to provide proper "feel" to the brake pedal. I would carefully investigate the price of any needed parts before buying a Rolls. We hauled and detailed a 1976 Corniche Convertible that had only 4800 original miles. It sold for $50k about 5 years ago. Beautiful car in virtually new condition.

[JV Puleo]

This is not my first rodeo. I have bought many old cars with my fingers crossed. ...

Right now I am looking for info on Rolls Royce, a car I don't know much about. I get it that parts are expensive. My hope is that I will not need too many. Is a Rolls such a shitbox that there is 0 chance it will function without major repairs when it is 30 years old, even if it has low miles?

My comparison here is Mercedes Benz. I have found them to be reasonable on parts (not cheap but not out of line if you know where to shop). Have also found them to be easier to repair than some cheaper cars, because they are well made and you have something to work with. They do not fall apart in your hands like a used Kleenex when you take them apart, the way most cars do today...

I think this is a very good assessment of the situation for someone who knows what they are doing. They are clearly not rubbish, but unfortunately, most late model RR cars seem to be sold to people who simply want to be seen in one, know absolutely nothing about maintaining them and are targets for every "soak the rich" mechanic out there. And, some people actually like to brag about how much it cost them to fix something. Its a backhanded way of saying "I'e got a lot of money...etc." It is not surprising they generate these stories... but I've heard the same about Mercedes.

That said, RR are "out of the comfort zone" for most mechanics if they haven't ever worked on them. If you were asking this from the point of view of dropping it off with "your mechanic" to fix it, I'd also be saying forget it.

[Dwight Romberger]

Rusty, put me in the "go for it" column. It sounds like a heck of alot of fun to me! You are a talented realistic guy. The "buy two sell one" makes sense and you know when to cut your loses and stop digging in a money pit.

If it is a real estate sale, the executors have a time frame in which they have to sell these items. You might ask them on what they have based their asking price. They may have been required to have an official appraisal, ask to see it. They might show it to you. You never know.

Most of my regrets in life are about things I didn't do.

[West Peterson]

In regards to "uninformed opinions," it seems to me that many of the ones given here ARE informed. We have owned more than a dozen Rolls-Royce in our time, and as mentioned above, so have many of the other posters. My dad has a saying, "If you love your Rolls, you've never driven a Packard." On the other hand, my dad barely knows how to use a pliers.

One more thought, in regards to buying a used Rolls. If you buy from the original owner (estate), chances are that it hasn't been buggered-up. If you buy from a second or third owner, your chances of buying a car that wasn't maintained properly grow exponentially with each "next owner".

You maintain a Rolls, Mercedes, BMW, etc.; with exception to oil changes, etc., you drive most American cars until something breaks, then repair or replace the part in question. That is a pretty old saying, and may be less true for today's cars. However, we're discussing cars that are 35 years old.

[Dwight Romberger]

Running 1969 Rolls "Buy it Now" on ebay $9,995.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rolls-Royce-Silver-Shadow-Silver-Shadow-GARAGED-SURVIVOR-ORIG-PAINT-INTERIOR-100-FACTORY-SOLID-METAL-/400628726489?forcerrptr=true&hash=item5d47553ad9&item=400628726489&pt=US_Cars_Trucks#ht_1895wt_1296

[Rusty_OToole]

Sorry if I got off on a rant there. I guess I don't want to hear the truth. Would like a Rolls, but no use getting stars in my eyes. Better leave them for someone else.

[Kimo]

I don't think anyone who has responded here is saying don't buy them, just that if you do you should do it with both eyes open and no expectations that it would not be a very expensive and ongoing undertaking starting the day you get them home. If you are good with that then go for it.

[Guest my3buicks]

While this is always good advice In the old car hobby, buy the very best car you can possibly afford, it pays off 10 fold in the long run. If you can afford to drop $20K on the 2 you probably are better off buying a really good one for $20K

[JV Puleo]

That Bentley came with a fairly simple F-head in-line 6. About the most complicated part of it was the dual carburetors and the servo-brake system, neither of which even vaguely approach the complexity of most cars from the 80s and 90s. Aside from the fact is awkward to work on the engine, they are very rugged, not overly complicated machines.

[nick8086]

You may notice that the Bentley has a Sun roof in it.

[JV Puleo]

All the Standard Steel bodies did.

[JACK M]

I had a 53 Bentley for a few years several years ago. The only problem I had was a leaking fuel tank. There is a good parts source in Grants Pass Oregon that had a tank.

I should also point out that it did leak some oil.

I have never owned a car that had so many small linkages, bell cranks, and other mechanical contrivances that I am not sure what they all did. It had a Bjur system that was a pedal that when mashed squirted oil on all of the joints in the steering and suspension. (hence the oil on the shop floor).

The servo brake system never gave me any trouble.

I had a lot of trouble free fun in that car and would have another one.

It shipped to Germany from my Ebay ad.

[Restorer32]

British engineering, never let one part do a job you can use 5 parts to do. We did a '37 Bentley some years ago. Now, dimming headlights by using a 2 element bulb was perfected in the 1920's but in a '37 Bentley there are solenoids inside the headlights that physically tilt the reflectors to "dim" the lights.

[MarrsCars]

My comparison here is Mercedes Benz. I have found them to be reasonable on parts (not cheap but not out of line if you know where to shop). Have also found them to be easier to repair than some cheaper cars, because they are well made and you have something to work with. They do not fall apart in your hands like a used Kleenex when you take them apart, the way most cars do today.

I would say they are comparable especially given your experience with Oldtimer Benzes. Without seeing them it's hard to judge price but again, that's relative, if you feel it's a good deal then it is. The biggest issue will be finding all new avenues for parts and the right repair shop to handle stuff you don't want to take on, but no different than the vintage MB or probably any other high end marque, when dealing with sourcing parts. The fact that you have two makes it an easier decision and gives you some space and ability to make one car whole from two if that's your angle. At $20k tho, I might buy one really good Spirit/Spur or Shadow variant as that money buys a fine one these days that is running and driven regularly but that's my only concerned opinion.

[Bhigdog]

British engineering, never let one part do a job you can use 5 parts to do. We did a '37 Bentley some years ago. Now, dimming headlights by using a 2 element bulb was perfected in the 1920's but in a '37 Bentley there are solenoids inside the headlights that physically tilt the reflectors to "dim" the lights.

We flew a new, in 1995, British Aerospace (Hawker-Siddley) business jet. It was actually one of the nicest handling jets I've flown but it was also the most God awful conglomeration of kluged together bits and parts I've ever seen. Not to mention fastener heads that only special drivers would fit. If you asked a system engineer why they did it a certain way they would just say " I say, we've always done it that way". But like I said it handled beautifully........................Bob

[Paul Dobbin]

An unnamed friend in AACA had a 1957 Silver Cloud (Ithink it was ), a beautiful white car with red leather interior, even left hand drive! After a few years he sold it and declared "it only cost me $5.00 a mile to own it."

I'd pass on the Rolls.

Paul

[JPHIL]

A good friend who owns a vintage Rolls recently told me.." When you are finally ready to buy that Rolls, don't do it".

[Curti]

And I read on this site some where, "nothing is more expensive than a cheap Rolls Royce".

[Restorer32]

We flew a new, in 1995, British Aerospace (Hawker-Siddley) business jet. It was actually one of the nicest handling jets I've flown but it was also the most God awful conglomeration of kluged together bits and parts I've ever seen. Not to mention fastener heads that only special drivers would fit. If you asked a system engineer why they did it a certain way they would just say " I say, we've always done it that way". But like I said it handled beautifully........................Bob

The same '37 Bentley had 5 wires going to the fuel tank sending unit. Count em, 5!

[Guest BJM]

I see quite a few RR on sites like Beverly Hills Car Club (business) that seem very reasonable price wise and that business provides about 100 photos per car. It makes me think I would not pay more then $6000-$9000 for a nice one.

For me, RR are so conservatively styled that you can buy one in a 25 year period and there isn't any difference. A 1978 looks like a 1965 looks like a 1984.

[junkyardjeff]

I would love to own one but it would have a American drivetrain in it along with most of the electronic components too,European cars are nice if you get them before they are abused but after a few owners they are about not worth having if you have to pay to have them worked on.

[GLong]

i drove a early 90's Rolls from Michigan to Florida for a friend. It was the smoothest riding car or vehicle I've ever driven, but one of the poorest handling cars. I stopped after a few miles on the freeway to check the tire's air pressure a second time, and they were unchanged from my 'pre-trip' check-over of the car.. I pumped them up way past normal pressures, I think I ran them at 48psi instead of 36psi, but:

The suspension has such soft bushings to give the 'floating on a cloud' ride, that the car sways with any steering correction, or slight cross wind or passing a truck.. felt a lot like low tires.

The engine compartment was an amazing sight. just about solid with hoses, wiring, ducts, fittings etc etc.. typical British complexity.

And, to top it off, it had a Bosch fuel injection system, the same type that the early late 70's and early 80's VW's and other european cars had.

The external fuel pump, mounted under the car ahead of the rear wheel sounded like a beehive. The owner had complained numerous times to the dealer, and it had been replaced several times.. for noisy operation. The car only had 28K or so miles on it..

The rubber window sealing strips came loose above 75mph, even trim adhesive didn't keep them in their grooved, chrome trim-piece. I removed them and put them in the trunk, reinstalled them when I delivered the car to the owner, he said he'd replaced several of them already.

The fit and finish were very good, but the complexity was scary. The cost of proprietary RR parts was also scary.

Like Bhigdog, I operated a Hawker-Sidley for many years. The Hawker-800 version. When at school for the plane, the instructors showed a slow motion video of the landing gear retracting and extending.. What two parts could do, the Brits used at least 6 or 8.. it was an amazing video. And typical British engineering. A similar business jet of the same size and weight that I flew before and after the Hawker-800 had about 1/4 the moving parts in the landing gear..

My thoughts on these two RR's would be to get a battery, and go fire them up, check them for what is working and what isn't.. and don't 'blow off' something like an electric window that doesn't work.. you can 'break the bank' buying some or most parts for RR's of these years.

I doubt that there is much if any money to be made, but if owning and driving a RR 'scratches an itch' that you have, they might be a good way to scratch that itch..

Good luck with them if you get 'em.

Greg L

[1937hd45]

Can you strip enough parts off them with hand tools to recover the cost? The scrap value on the remains could be your profit. Bob