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Massachusetts to consider pay by the mile tax in addition to gas tax. Urgent Action Needed


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Please read the following message from SEMA regarding this new opportunity legislators in Mass have devised to fleece car owners of all types.....Nothing like being taxed on taking a vacation etc. or trailering your car to a meet!!

Tom

URGENT LEGISLATIVE ALERT

Massachusetts Considers Pilot Program to Tax Cars for Miles Traveled

Legislation (H.B. 3142) to establish a pilot program to impose a vehicle mileage user fee administered by the Department of Transportation was introduced in Massachusetts. This bill is intended to supplement the gas tax and implement alternative ways to raise transportation revenue for the state. Under the bill, the Department must report to the legislature on the feasibility of permanently assessing a vehicle mileage user fee. The pilot program would include at least 1,000 drivers of trucks, passenger and commercial vehicles. These drivers would have on-board vehicle-mileage-counting equipment installed on their vehicles which can report the number of miles traveled. Payments would be collected from participants.

[h=3]We Urge You to Contact the Joint Transportation CommitteeMembers (List Below) Immediately To Request Their Opposition to H.B. 3142[/h]

  • H.B. 3142 seeks to penalize national efforts to create a more fuel efficient vehicle fleet. As gas tax revenues decrease due to hybrid and electric vehicle ownership, states are looking for new sources of funding for pet projects.

[h=3]DON’T DELAY! Please contact members of the Massachusetts Joint Transportation Committee immediately to request their opposition to H.B. 3142.[/h] Please e-mail a copy of your letter to Steve McDonald at stevem@sema.org. Also, please forward this Alert to your fellow car enthusiasts. Urge them to join the SAN and help defend the hobby! Thank you for your assistance.

[h=3]Massachusetts Joint Transportation Committee[/h] To e-mail all Committee members, copy and paste the email address block below:

Thomas.McGee@masenate.gov; William.Straus@mahouse.gov; Thomas.P.Kennedy@masenate.gov; John.Mahoney@mahouse.gov; Gale.Candaras@masenate.gov; Marc.Pacheco@masenate.gov; Robert.Hedlund@masenate.gov; Michael.Moore@masenate.gov; Mike.Rush@masenate.gov; John.Fernandes@mahouse.gov; Timothy.Madden@mahouse.gov; Mark.Cusack@mahouse.gov; Christopher.Markey@mahouse.gov; Chris.Walsh@mahouse.gov; Peter.Durant@mahouse.gov; Danielle.Gregoire@mahouse.gov; Gailanne.Cariddi@mahouse.gov; Michael.Finn@mahouse.gov; Jerald.Parisella@mahouse.gov; steven.howitt@mahouse.gov

Senator Thomas McGee (Senate Chair)

Phone: 617-722-1350

Email: Thomas.McGee@masenate.gov

Representative Williams Straus (House Chair)

Phone: 617-722-2400

Email: William.Straus@mahouse.gov

Senator Thomas Kennedy (Senate Vice-Chair)

Phone: 617-722-1200

Email: Thomas.P.Kennedy@masenate.gov

Representative John Mahoney (House Vice-Chair)

Phone: 617-722-2400

Email: John.Mahoney@mahouse.gov

Senator Gale Candaras

Phone: 617-722-1291

Email: Gale.Candaras@masenate.gov

Senator Marc Pacheco

Phone: 617-722-1551

Email: Marc.Pacheco@masenate.gov

Senator Robert Hedlund

Phone: 617-722-1646

Email: Robert.Hedlund@masenate.gov

Senator Michael Moore

Phone: 617-722-1485

Email: Michael.Moore@masenate.gov

Senator Michael Rush

Phone: 617-722-1348

Email: Mike.Rush@masenate.gov

Representative John Fernandes

Phone: 617-722-2220

Email: John.Fernandes@mahouse.gov

Representative Timothy Madden

Phone: 617-722-2810

Email: Timothy.Madden@mahouse.gov

Representative Mark Cusack

Phone: 617-722-2637

Email: Mark.Cusack@mahouse.gov

Representative Christopher Markey

Phone: 617-722-2396

Email: Christopher.Markey@mahouse.gov

Representative Chris Walsh

Phone: 617-722-2013

Email: Chris.Walsh@mahouse.gov

Representative Peter Durant

Phone: 617-722-2060

Email: Peter.Durant@mahouse.gov

Representative Danielle Gregoire

Phone: 617-722-2460

Email: Danielle.Gregoire@mahouse.gov

Representative Gailanne Cariddi

Phone: 617-722-2450

Email: Gailanne.Cariddi@mahouse.gov

Representative Michael Finn

Phone: 617-722-2637

Email: Michael.Finn@mahouse.gov

Representative Jerald Parisella

Phone: 617-722-2877

Email: Jerald.Parisella@mahouse.gov

Representative Steven Howitt

Phone: 617-722-2305

Email: steven.howitt@mahouse.gov

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Does not sound fair to me. Not that I would like it, but what is wrong with a slight Gas Tax increase if they are short funds?

With the gas tax the people with gas guzzling vehicles end up paying more because they use more gas per mile, like it should be. An if you think about it, "GENERALLY" speaking the more of a gas guzzler a vehicle is the heavier it is, so the heavier vehicles pay more tax per mile since they use more gas per mile.

With this SAB (the B is for Bill), the people with fuel efficient vehicles get SCREWED since they would pay the same tax per mile as the gas guzzlers.

Vila

1933 Chevrolet

1962 Triumph TR4

1984 BMW 633 CSi

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Does not sound fair to me. Not that I would like it, but what is wrong with a slight Gas Tax increase if they are short funds?

With the gas tax the people with gas guzzling vehicles end up paying more because they use more gas per mile, like it should be. An if you think about it, "GENERALLY" speaking the more of a gas guzzler a vehicle is the heavier it is, so the heavier vehicles pay more tax per mile since they use more gas per mile.

With this SAB (the B is for Bill), the people with fuel efficient vehicles get SCREWED since they would pay the same tax per mile as the gas guzzlers.

Vila

1933 Chevrolet

1962 Triumph TR4

1984 BMW 633 CSi

The big reason legislatures pursue such means of taxation is the creation of yet another revenue stream. IF it were simply an issue with "needed" revenue alone, they would raise the gas tax which theoretically would extract the most tax from those who not only drive the most but who also have the heavier vehicles (lower mpg) that wear the road surfaces, as you point out. There are other motives at work here in addition to creating a new tax such as data mining...now they know more about you since they are directly monitoring how much you personally drive...paying gas tax is anonymous. Of course now they have to check your mileage every so often, install monitoring devices etc. etc. I would also caution that this type of taxation has been discussed at the Federal level along with a Federal Registration for vehicles....just another way to gain more government control through data mining and the passage of additional restrictions and taxes to modify our driving behavior etc etc etc. I simply never ends. Its just one more tentacle the govt. attaches to each of us. It would be a mistake to characterize this move as benign

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Yet people claimed George Orwell was lunatic fringe.

Considering I live on a state border, and live in one state and work in the other, can you imagine the can of worms I'd get into if either VA or NC (or heaven forbid both) decide to buy into this cockamamie revenue scheme?

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Perhaps we should look at it this way: Is it fair that owners of all-electric vehicles (e.g., Tesla, Nissan Leaf) pay NOTHING for their use of street and road improvements paid for by those who use dino fuel and thus pay gas and diesel taxes? Look ahead ten years and consider how many all-electric vehicles will be on the roads then. In the same vein, today hybrids (arguably) put perhaps twice as much 'wear' on roads as they pay for in fuel taxes.

Essentially, the longstanding fuel tax paradigm, in which virtually all road vehicles used dino fuel and paid for street and road improvements via tax per gallon of fuel purchased, is nearing its sell-before date. The **real** question is, What is an **equitable** means of charging motorists for their use of street and road ("traffic" ??) improvements and maintenance?

States and municipalities are already feeling the effect of reduced fuel tax revenue due to increased numbers of higher-mpg vehicles and hybrids.

Rocketraider, varying tax rates on fuel in neighboring states have existed for decades without causing the apocalypse.

In my state of California, which I sometimes refer to as The Pipples Republik of Caleeforneeya, smog tests are required biennially and odometer readings are recorded. Also (alas!), 1976-and-newer vehicles are required to submit to the smog test as a condition of re-registration and upon sale.

Perhaps vehicles over a certain age should be exempt from any such mileage tax. But what happens if your driver's/beater's speedo breaks and it is not economically feasible to repair or replace it? My errand truck, a 1995 Mazda pickup with electronic speedometer and only 59K miles, recently lost its speedo and odometer functions. Replacing the Vehicle Speed Sensor, a $20 part, didn't cure it. I'm not done with problem-solving (I'll try refreshing grounds and even try a jumper ground from the speedo head unit), but I'm almost reconciled to doing without. Should this render a vehicle unregisterable under a mileage-taxing scheme?

Again, I'd welcome ideas on how to **equitably** share street and road costs in the age of hybrids and all-electric vehicles. Dave@Moon????

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Equitable is the key.

I don't want to pay a mileage-based road use tax to two different states, and I don't want to have to record miles driven in each state every time I cross the state line- which varies from 2 to 10 times a day depending on what I have going on and which route I take. There's more than one county road here that meanders back and forth across the state line several times over its length, and those roads are often the shortest distance to get somewhere.

Fuel taxes already have NC gas priced at 20 c/gallon higher than either VA or SC. As a result most border area stations have as many NC cars buying gas as VA cars, so theoretically these NC drivers are paying for Virginia and South Carolina roads.

Re electric or other alternative-fuel vehicles: the politicians who pushed for those vehicles should have seen the reduced fuel consumption/ tax revenue issue coming, but as is so often the case, they didn't look far enough into the future. They pandered to the special interests who stood to make money from producing such vehicles.

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........

Perhaps vehicles over a certain age should be exempt from any such mileage tax. But what happens if your driver's/beater's speedo breaks and it is not economically feasible to repair or replace it? My errand truck, a 1995 Mazda pickup with electronic speedometer and only 59K miles, recently lost its speedo and odometer functions. Replacing the Vehicle Speed Sensor, a $20 part, didn't cure it. I'm not done with problem-solving (I'll try refreshing grounds and even try a jumper ground from the speedo head unit), but I'm almost reconciled to doing without. Should this render a vehicle unregisterable under a mileage-taxing scheme?

Some big company road tractors have drive wheel odometers that may be able to correct your speedometer problem. I'm sure you should be able to fabricate a mounting device for your Mazda! ;)

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Note that there is not any proposed alternative in this thread. Just say No!

That would up to you DriveAG, to begin/post another thread disputing this action, if you so choose.

By the way, our AACA President (Super Moderator) said: "Thank you for your assistance." It was not a mandate or an executive action, just a request.;)

Wayne

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Thanks, Wayne, for your info in #9 (Some big company road tractors have drive wheel odometers that may be able to correct your speedometer problem. I'm sure you should be able to fabricate a mounting device for your Mazda!) I'll try a ground maintenance solution first.

Sorry, all, I didn't intend to hijack the thread with my Mazda electronic issue.

What I suppose was implicit in my post #5 is that change is inevitably coming in how auto and truck users are taxed to support street/road/highway infrastructure. I'd prefer the vintage auto community to get in front of that issue with some suggestions for **equitable** schemes. As it is, all-electric vehicles aren't paying any kind of road tax, and hybrids are paying a fraction proportionate to their actual usage of this infrastructure. Absent changes to how "road taxes" are collected, those driving liquid-fuel burners are paying for road usage by alternative-fuel and hybrid vehicles. As the latter vehicles proliferate over the next decade and beyond, if a new road tax paradigm is not enacted, I foresee that liquid-fuel taxes will increase dramatically.

One possibility would be a surcharge on registrations of alternative fuel and hybrid vehicles. That would minimize the Orwellian effect cited by Larry, but flies in the face of fiscal/tax preferences (encouragement) for such vehicles. Ideas, anyone?

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I have never understood why the gas tax is perceived as the correct way to pay for roads. In NC, our gas tax has always been been among the highest in our area. In this state, there have also been some other strange uses of gas tax dollars. One of the recent points of discussion here is a proposal to remove funding of the highway patrol from its current source of funding through gas tax dollars. This is the only law enforcement agency being funded by gas tax dollars. I see roads similar to other government infrastructure. I would think that it would be more appropriate to simply pay for road maintenance out of general tax revenue. There is no reason that there needs to be a special gas tax when general tax revenue could be used as the funding source.

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One possibility would be a surcharge on registrations of alternative fuel and hybrid vehicles. That would minimize the Orwellian effect cited by Larry, but flies in the face of fiscal/tax preferences (encouragement) for such vehicles. Ideas, anyone?

At least at the Federal level, tax incentives for hybrid and alternative fuels cars are history. There hasn't been any for any car since 12/31/10.

http://www.hybridcars.com/federal-incentives/

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I don't live in MA any more, but I'm all for paying based on use. The thing is, the per-mile tax needs to account for vehicle weight in addition to miles driven, as both impact the cost of road repair. More to the point, collector cars that are driven infrequently (but which typically get poor gas mileage) would pay a SMALLER burden, as should be appropriate. And, as pointed out above, electric cars would also pay their fair share of road maintenance. I'm surprised at the comments here, frankly.

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Since this is about my home state I will chime in. I will keep my comments confined to taxes related to cars and the hobby. Here is a list of items that makes my state much more expensive to own a car either new or antique. This list is why I will no longer wish to stay here and am looking to move to another state. MY ONLY REASON TO MOVE IS ECONOMIC!

The major east west road is a toll road that is very expensive. Try hauling you car with a trailer and it is insane.

We pay 6 1/4 percent sales tax at purchase.

We pay an excise tax on our cars, trucks, trailers, motor homes, motorcycles, boats, ect. Every year based on it's current value. Yes, it's like owning a piece of land. As long as you own it you will pay a tax bill on it every year. I stopped buying new F350's as my tax bill was over 1500.00 the first year after I paid for the truck and sales tax. I won't even talk about insurance in this state.

If you buy a car from a private party you will pay sales tax on the retail value of the car regardless of how much you paid for the car. I paid taxes based upon 5 times more than I actually paid for a used Lincoln this year. 6 years ago they wanted to charge me sales tax based on 76,000 for a car I paid less than ten thousand. They said pay the bill then request a refund. That's 4750 dollars sales tax on a non running antique car, plus a 100 dollar title fee. The correct sales tax figure would have been less than 675 dollars.

Trailer excise tax for my open car trailer is 210 per year, my enclosed trailer tax is just over 300. Also out trailer registration fees are yearly and run 125 to 300 per year for registration, thus a decent enclosed trailer kept in this state will run you 600 dollars or more in this state. And by the way, my town bylaws only allow one trailer or RV in the yard. Any more and you must park it somewhere else and pay the storage fee.

Pick up truck registration is paid each year, about 250 dollars per truck, car registration fees are 75 per year, and last two years, unless like me you run year of manufacture plates, which carry a 75 dollar per year fee plus the registration plus the state inspection fee which is 30 per year.

Antique plates in this state restrict the use of the car to club meets, driving to the garage, ect. You MAY NOT drive to work or the store for errands on antique plates. The discount for this privilege of antique plates? NONE.

Gas taxes here are among the highest in the nation. A single speeding ticket will cost you 150 dollars per year for 6 years against your insurance.

Try and get a title for an old car that came only with a bill of sale, Impossible. Any hot rod or custom built must show receipts for ALL parts and items to get inspected by the state police, and the hassle is incredible. Not worth the run around.

I could go on and on how the state is in our pocket, but it would never end. Remember the big dig it was only 2 billion.....sorry, make that 12 billion. Go to the airport from Boston and I think you will pay around 10 bucks for a mile drive. I no longer fly out of Boston because I refuse to pay. I never thought I would leave here as I like the people, location, and lifestyle. It is just stupid expensive to live here and now I will leave. I won't go on about all the other crazy fees, taxes, rules, regulations, it would just bore you to death. Ed

Edited by edinmass
sp (see edit history)
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Other than for a replacement for increasing gas taxes, the OTHER thing is that car insurance can be linked to mileages, too. There have been a few proposals to have car insurance rates levied by miles-driven, in TX, but they didn't get too far.

In earlier times, I remember reading that how Progressive Insurance got their reputation for "low cost" insurance was that they put a monitoring device on their insured's cars to see how far they drove, where they drove, and where the car spent the night. As many older drivers didn't drive too much, they got reduced insurance bills, which they liked. The "SnapShot" device which Progressive is now touting, for similar possible rate reductions (OR increases!), is probably pretty similar. NOT unlike vehicle monitoring devices which many fleets use. Rates are usually based on some sort of predicted/suspected miles-driven and "exposure to perils" during such driving or being parked.

ONE thing which I haven't really heard about is how they will keep track of your mileage. Unless it's an off-sight 3rd party contractor which does it like they do the fleet vehicles, which is all by GPS. Those services are all quite accurate in what they do! Just as similar "consumer" systems which some parents use for their kids' cars.

There was a legislative proposal to levy a "fee" on purely electric vehicles in our last legislative session. This was a way to compensate for the "road taxes" they weren't paying as they didn't purchase gasosline--plain and simple. Kind of ensuring they pay "their fair share" of roadway upkeep and such.

It seems that Orwell was about 30 years ahead of things, until you stop to consider all of the electronic (audio, video, message) monitoring which has been evolving over the past 20 years. But, sometimes I believe the paranoia over such things can get a little over-blown . . . unless those squaking about it might be doing something they might consider "questionable".

Happy Holidays!

NTX5467

Edited by NTX5467 (see edit history)
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Some big company road tractors have drive wheel odometers that may be able to correct your speedometer problem. I'm sure you should be able to fabricate a mounting device for your Mazda! ;)

I ran GPS that you can buy for 60.00+or- for my big rigs. It shows MPH and miles driven. We use the miles from the GPS o pay driven miles in any given state.

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A solution to the electric car issue would be to mandate a separate meter at the home for charging and do away with the "free" charging stations that some cities have implemented, making the user put in his/her credit card for a charge. Then both charges have a tax equal to the gas tax. But that would upset those advocating electric cars....which are absolutely useless in Texas, etc.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 6 years later...
On 12/5/2013 at 2:07 AM, TomCox said:

Please read the following message from SEMA regarding this new opportunity legislators in Mass have devised to fleece car owners of all types.....Nothing like being taxed on taking a vacation etc. or trailering your car to a meet!!

Tom

 

 

URGENT LEGISLATIVE ALERT

 

 

 

Massachusetts Considers Pilot Program to Tax Cars for Miles Traveled

Legislation (H.B. 3142) to establish a pilot program to impose a vehicle mileage user fee administered by the Department of Transportation was introduced in Massachusetts. This bill is intended to supplement the gas tax and implement alternative ways to raise transportation revenue for the state. Under the bill, the Department must report to the legislature on the feasibility of permanently assessing a vehicle mileage user fee. The pilot program would include at least 1,000 drivers of trucks, passenger and commercial vehicles. These drivers would have on-board vehicle-mileage-counting equipment installed on their vehicles which can report the number of miles traveled. Payments would be collected from participants.

[h=3]We Urge You to Contact the Joint Transportation CommitteeMembers (List Below) Immediately To Request Their Opposition to H.B. 3142[/h]

 

  • H.B. 3142 seeks to penalize national efforts to create a more fuel efficient vehicle fleet. As gas tax revenues decrease due to hybrid and electric vehicle ownership, states are looking for new sources of funding for pet projects.

 

[h=3]DON’T DELAY! Please contact members of the Massachusetts Joint Transportation Committee immediately to request their opposition to H.B. 3142.[/h] Please e-mail a copy of your letter to Steve McDonald at stevem@sema.org. Also, please forward this Alert to your fellow car enthusiasts. Urge them to join the SAN and help defend the hobby! Thank you for your assistance. Monthly bookkeeping services yourbooksontime.com...

[h=3]Massachusetts Joint Transportation Committee[/h] To e-mail all Committee members, copy and paste the email address block below:

Thomas.McGee@masenate.gov; William.Straus@mahouse.gov; Thomas.P.Kennedy@masenate.gov; John.Mahoney@mahouse.gov; Gale.Candaras@masenate.gov; Marc.Pacheco@masenate.gov; Robert.Hedlund@masenate.gov; Michael.Moore@masenate.gov; Mike.Rush@masenate.gov; John.Fernandes@mahouse.gov; Timothy.Madden@mahouse.gov; Mark.Cusack@mahouse.gov; Christopher.Markey@mahouse.gov; Chris.Walsh@mahouse.gov; Peter.Durant@mahouse.gov; Danielle.Gregoire@mahouse.gov; Gailanne.Cariddi@mahouse.gov; Michael.Finn@mahouse.gov; Jerald.Parisella@mahouse.gov; steven.howitt@mahouse.gov

Senator Thomas McGee (Senate Chair)

Phone: 617-722-1350

Email: Thomas.McGee@masenate.gov

Representative Williams Straus (House Chair)

Phone: 617-722-2400

Email: William.Straus@mahouse.gov

Senator Thomas Kennedy (Senate Vice-Chair)

Phone: 617-722-1200

Email: Thomas.P.Kennedy@masenate.gov

Representative John Mahoney (House Vice-Chair)

Phone: 617-722-2400

Email: John.Mahoney@mahouse.gov

Senator Gale Candaras

Phone: 617-722-1291

Email: Gale.Candaras@masenate.gov

Senator Marc Pacheco

Phone: 617-722-1551

Email: Marc.Pacheco@masenate.gov

Senator Robert Hedlund

Phone: 617-722-1646

Email: Robert.Hedlund@masenate.gov

Senator Michael Moore

Phone: 617-722-1485

Email: Michael.Moore@masenate.gov

Senator Michael Rush

Phone: 617-722-1348

Email: Mike.Rush@masenate.gov

Representative John Fernandes

Phone: 617-722-2220

Email: John.Fernandes@mahouse.gov

Representative Timothy Madden

Phone: 617-722-2810

Email: Timothy.Madden@mahouse.gov

Representative Mark Cusack

Phone: 617-722-2637

Email: Mark.Cusack@mahouse.gov

Representative Christopher Markey

Phone: 617-722-2396

Email: Christopher.Markey@mahouse.gov

Representative Chris Walsh

Phone: 617-722-2013

Email: Chris.Walsh@mahouse.gov

Representative Peter Durant

Phone: 617-722-2060

Email: Peter.Durant@mahouse.gov

Representative Danielle Gregoire

Phone: 617-722-2460

Email: Danielle.Gregoire@mahouse.gov

Representative Gailanne Cariddi

Phone: 617-722-2450

Email: Gailanne.Cariddi@mahouse.gov

Representative Michael Finn

Phone: 617-722-2637

Email: Michael.Finn@mahouse.gov

Representative Jerald Parisella

Phone: 617-722-2877

Email: Jerald.Parisella@mahouse.gov

Representative Steven Howitt

Phone: 617-722-2305

Email: steven.howitt@mahouse.gov

 

 

good!

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