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MccJoseph

Bettendorf High School Instructors Post

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First off let me start by saying that I am a long time reader and first time poster. I have often used the AACA forum for information regarding one or more of my classics, as I find that there is a wealth of information here that no library could contain. I will give an introduction about myself, and our school, and then go more in depth about the project.

My name is Joseph Phillips, I am 25 years old and I teach Industrial Arts at Bettendorf High School in Bettendorf Iowa. My areas of expertise (and courses I teach) are Wood Technology I and II, Automotive Technology, Electronics, and Power mechanics. Power consists of 25 students and these are the bright young men that have been posting to your forum.

Our school district is promoting digital citizenship and technology integration, and part of that initiative involved issuing every student an I Pad. This is the means that they use to do their research, homework, etc. This could also explain some of the typos that you have been encountering as the keyboards are not the most user friendly. The other explanations for typos could be that the student has a handicap, which I have seen one instance of this in a post already, or the student was in a rush or too lazy to correct their spelling, punctuation, grammar, etc.

This assignment came to me when I clicked on a video excerpt of the Mormon Meteor III. I was amazed at how the whole class went quiet to watch the clip, and as it played I heard all these sidebar conversations amongst different groups of students. Jocks talking to band geeks, seniors talking to freshmen and they were all discussing how cool the car was. They talked about its shape, its large motor, how fast it could go, even if they would drive it to school. It was truly amazing.

I did some probing to find out how much my class knew about cars. Some had a fair grasp, while others didn’t know how many cylinders were in a V8. The general consensus was that cars prior to 1960 were incapable of going past 30 or 40 mph at best. So, I began showing students numerous automotive greats from Bucciali, Delahaye, and Bugatti’s to Dusenberg, Auburn, Packard, Peerless, Pierce Arrow, the list goes on and on.

I then asked each student to pick either a car I showed or one from a company that is no longer in business and find out everything they could about it and then report back to the rest of the class. I asked them to find all the technical specs on it, wheel base, curb weight, BHP, engine displacement, top speed, original MSRP and current value in today’s market. I took it one step further and required them to reach out for assistance on the AACA forum. I thought, “Who better to consult about old cars than people that eat, sleep and breathe them?”

I must apologize that there has been a small group of students that have abused this privilege and acted inappropriately. Not only has it wasted your time but it has also set a negative tone for the rest of the class. Most of my students are enjoying this activity and the ability to share the knowledge that some of you have and are willing to offer. If it would be possible, would a moderator please PM me so I can get the names or copies of the posts to follow up with parents and ultimately disciplinary action for those that need it.

There have been so many people that have been tremendously helpful, Rusty o Toole for one, and the students genuinely appreciate it (as do I). It has left a positive impression on them. They have gone out to Wikipedia and used google but I told them to come here because they can get firsthand accounts or experiences that are invaluable and not common knowledge to a search engine. Some students just needed a bump in the right direction, but as I said the car community is generally a good bunch of individuals and the AACA forum is a good place to find information or just kick tires.

At BHS, we started teaching 1 automotive course with a mini-van and a Ford Taurus. Not bad vehicles by any means but not exactly something that gets kids excited. This coupled with kids that get new cars and are scared to change their oil because it will void their warranty made for low interest. To address this I brought in my 1928 Buick sedan and began a full frame off restoration. At the time the car had been sitting outside since the early 90’s and had not been driven since 1996. The motor was locked up and the day we unloaded it off the trailer the driver side door fell off in my hand. The students freed the motor, got it running and then began painstakingly removing every nut and bolt. Needless to say we now have 3 sections of Auto’s and an after school club that works solely on the Buick, not to mention numerous possibilities on the horizon. I am blessed in the sense that my school and my dept. have been tremendously supportive in this venture. Here is a link to a newspaper article that ran on some of the work we have been doing to the old Buick:

http://www.bettgrowl.com/?p=3488

Regardless I talk to people all the time that say young kids are not interested in old cars, and I truly believe it’s just because they have not been exposed to them. Luckily I love talking about them, and when I show them cars that could do 100mph in 1930 or a steam car that make 700 bhp from 2 rpm it opens their eyes and for some of them they’re hooked.

This has been a truly enjoyable experience for me and my class; I find myself even learning stuff (I didn’t know Pierce Arrow made bird cages). A lot of students have been overwhelmed with the kindness that some people have shown, to the point that they are bragging to each other who’s been the most help and how many posts they have gotten and how often people are posting to them.

I would like to get some information from other users on the site. I welcome any constructive criticism on this matter or suggestions for other similar assignments. I hope this has been a positive experience for those of you that have been helping these young men along the way. Please let me know if this is an inconvenience to you in any way. If that is the general consensus I will abandon the project all together. I also think it may be beneficial to put all of these into one folder or the equivalent there of.

I look forward to posting various other pictures and question on the Forum, and welcome feedback on our 1928. We are seriously considering converting it to a touring car, as it’s just a regular sedan and seems like a prime candidate.

If you need to contact me for any reason, I look forward to the interaction. You can PM me or feel free to email me, my school email is:

Jphillips@bettendorf.k12.ia.us

If you contact me I would be more than happy to share my phone number as well.

Thanks again!

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I like talking about old cars and enjoyed answering the questions. Did not know quite what you wanted, am glad you liked my answers.

About the old cars being slow or incapable. In 1958 you could buy a new Chrysler 300 hardtop with torsion bar suspension, 400HP hemi V8, 3 speed auto trans, power steering, power brakes, air conditioning, all the modern conveniences. It was good for a top end of 145 MPH and 0-60 in under 10 seconds. It was a full 5 passenger car with a big trunk and you could take the family on a coast to coast trip with no problems.

The best cars of today won't do much better, and most of them won't do as well.

This car would be perfectly capable on today's roads if you added a couple of improvements that were not available in 1958: disc brakes and radial tires.

It is interesting to note that ten years earlier such a car would have been unthinkable. I don't believe there has been so much improvement in cars in any 10 year period since.

Looking forward to seeing pics of your Buick project. For what it is worth I vote to keep it a sedan. I have seen similar cars that people tried to turn into tourings and they never turn out well. To do the job properly is a lot harder, and more expensive than it looks.

It depends how bad the body is. If the wood framing is rotten, steel panels full of rust and generally shot to blazes you might consider building a woody station wagon body. There are body kits available for this, with pre cut wood and all parts to build your own body.

You might also consider a speedster. A lot of antique cars have been converted into speedsters when the original body was done for. For various reasons, it is the easiest and cheapest body to make, and a lot of fun to drive.

For years roadsters tourings and coupes were saved while sedans were scrapped or used for parts. To the point where now a good sedan is rarer by comparison, than when they were new.

Edited by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

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Incidentally what is Power mechanics? I thought it was car engines but that would be under Automotive Technology. Is it to do with hopping them up for more power?

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My apology. When I saw the one post with rather poor spelling and grammar, I thought that the post may have come from Germany (as we do see those frequently.) I guess I would have responded differently had a known Iowa better. Anyway, keep up the good work in keeping them interested and, of course, have them keep the questions coming.

John

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I would think long and hard before converting the sedan to a touring..... I have see it done. refer to my post under AMC, Nash 1070. My father did it with a sedan that had already been chopped. You have a good sedan and honestly, you don't see those at shows. I know I learned a lot in HS shop classes and we worked on boring GM sedans donated after being flooded. They were not bad but no one took the time to change the fluids and eventually the transmissions went out since a mix of water and trans fluid does not do it any good! Keep up the good work and keep inspiring them.

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MccJoseph,

Welcome to the AACA Discussion Forum. Thank you for your post and for your work to encourage the younger generation. In response to your statement, "Please let me know if this is an inconvenience to you in any way. If that is the general consensus I will abandon the project all together." One thing that would have probably been a good idea would be to have posted your introduction before the students began asking their questions. That would have prevented a few people from forming the initial thought that the questions were coming from spammers, as we do get quite a few spam attacks regularly. I would encourage you to keep up the good work and I would hope you will make this an annual project. I would make the suggestion that the next time that you do this project you also post an initial "introductory" post for the project to alert new forum members and remind old forum members of the project.

Regarding the following statement, "I also think it may be beneficial to put all of these into one folder or the equivalent there of", I don't think that there is a practical way to do this. Also, it might actually be better to suggest that your students post questions in more of the particular sub-forums instead of, or in addition to, just posting in the General Forum as most have done. For example, there are quite a few people who "hang out" in the particular sub-forum for their own make of car and seldom read anything in the General Forum. Some of these folks may have incredible knowledge about an obscure make of car that your student is researching but might never see the question in the General Forum.

Hopefully your work will help bring some of your students into the old car hobby. It certainly sounds like it will. As far as the following statement, "If it would be possible, would a moderator please PM me so I can get the names or copies of the posts to follow up with parents and ultimately disciplinary action for those that need it.",I am the moderator who deleted the inappropriate posts. I think that each student who posted an inappropriate post and I have communicated by Private Message. I believe that each of them have apologized and as far as I am concerned no further action is necessary. We can forgive and forget a few youthful mistakes. If you have any further questions feel free to contact me by Private Message.

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MccJoseph,

I am a daily reader of this site and when I come across a post that I am not interested in, (maybe one of your students’ posts) I simply pass on to the next post without comment. Spelling and grammar are not required on this site because we have people of all kinds and from all places in the world.

I do remember one post from a student requesting info but I didn’t have any to give on that subject. I am a firm believer in helping students and encourage them to write. This will help them more in their social skills, then what they learn about cars.

Ps don't be so hard on their spelling, you have 6 errors in your post. (I had 4 before I submitted my post to word check) (;-)

MOST IMPORTAINT! Do not discipline anyone. Rather instruct them in the correct methods of communication.

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Ps don't be so hard on their spelling,

Especially since many long-time members here routinely type "break lights" and "duel exhaust"... :rolleyes:

I will admit that the death of proper spelling, grammar, and punctuation due to texting and general computer use is disturbing to me, especially since spellcheck features abound in software.

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MccJoseph,

I would also point out that some of your students might be interested in AACA Membership. Student Membership is a real deal. It is only $12 per year and the magazine alone is worth way more than that. Here is the link if they are interested:

http://aaca.org/About-AACA/membership.html

[h=1]Join Or Renew Online Here![/h]Annual, Student and Junior Memberships in the AACA are open to all individuals who have a genuine interest in the antique automobile hobby. Ownership of an automobile is not a prerequisite of membership.To apply or renew for a Club membership, join or renew online or complete theapplication form and mail or FAX it to the Club's National Headquarters in Hershey, PA.Your issues of ANTIQUE AUTOMOBILE magazine will begin with your membership. It is suggested that you review the Regions & Chapters Listing for possible affiliation with the one that is closet to your residence.[h=2]Annual Membership[/h]

  • Annual Dues are $35.00 (includes spouse if applicable) - dues are bill annually - no pro-rating of dues.
  • Members receive bi-monthy issue of ANTIQUE AUTOMOBILE magazine.
  • Members are eligible to join an AACA region and/or chapter.
  • Members can exhibit vehicles & compete for national prizes and annual awards.
  • Members receive unlimited free admission to the AACA Museum.
  • Members receive limited free research by the AACA Library & Research Center staff.

[h=2]1/2 Year Membership (starts June 1st)[/h]The 1/2 year membership is for FIRST TIME NEW members only. The 1/2 year membership covers June 1st thru December.

  • 1/2 Year dues are $18.00 (includes spouse if applicable).
  • 1/2 Year members receive three bi-monthly issues of ANTIQUE AUTOMOBILEmagazine: July/August, September/October and November/December.
  • 1/2 Year members enjoy all the other privileges as the annual membership.

[h=2]Life Membership[/h]

  • One time payment of $600.00 (includes spouse if applicable).
  • Life members enjoy the same privileges as the annual membership.

[h=2]Student Membership[/h]

  • Open to STUDENTS ages 13-25.
  • Verification of student enrollment is requested.
  • Enjoys same privileges as the annual membership.

[h=2]Junior Membership[/h]

  • Any child up to 12 years old may join, whether or not parents are members of AACA.
  • Dues are $10.00 per Junior Member per year.
  • Junior members will receive one Membership Card, one Membership Badge, and a Newsletter four times a year, February, May, August, and November.
  • Special activities are encouraged for Juniors at National (and local) Meets. An educational program is planned to acquaint Juniors of AACA history, its structure and mission, and a general overview of vehicles and their workings, plus a basic understanding of the judging system, all at a level they should find interesting and entertaining.

As soon as your application form is received at National Headquarters, it will be reviewed and, if approved, a membership card for the current year will be mailed to you.

I apologize for not knowing much about Iowa geography but hopefully there is an AACA region somewhere relatively close that might also serve as an additional resource for you. Here is a list of Iowa AACA Regions:

IOWA

Cedar Rapids Region

President - Jon Reynolds

3521 Morel Court

Marion, IA 52302

Cedar Valley Region

President - Bob Cutsforth

1248 Sheerer Ave

Waterloo, IA 50701

Des Moines Region

President - David Holzinger

605 - 54th St

Des Moines, IA 50312

Iowa Great Lakes Region

President -Steve Hurst

PO Box 42

Spencer, IA 51301

Iowa Valley Region

President - Dean Oakes

2969 Prairie de Chien

Iowa City, IA 52240

Marshalltown Area Restorers Region

President - Newell Drury

2309 C. Ave

Gladbrook, IA 50635

Niapra Region

President - Tony Sponsel

603 Main St

Blairsburg, IA 50034

Niva Region

President - Robert Lohuis

3071 485th St

McIntire, IA 50455

Siouxland Region

President - Don Christensen

3329 Jackson St

Sioux City, IA 51104

Tall Corn Region

President - David Junck

1248 G Ave

Ogden, IA 50212-7568

Edited by MCHinson (see edit history)

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"If it would be possible, would a moderator please PM me so I can get the names or copies of the posts to follow up with parents and ultimately disciplinary action for those that need it."

No need for all that. They're high school kids; by nature they're full of **** and vinegar and if anyone on this forum denies they were the same at that age, I will call boolcaca. Then again you're talking with a guy whose dad presented his 17 year old son with a "Smart Ass White Boy" ball cap. I remember asking him "exactly what are you trying to say pa?" ;)

I'm reminded of a high school car freak I befriended back in the late 90s who was completely awed by my 1969 Olds Toronado. When he returned to school Monday morning after meeting me and the car Saturday night, he told his automotive teacher about the wild (and fast!) front wheel drive car he'd seen and ridden in over the weekend. His 26-year-old teacher told him he was full of it, that there were no FWD cars in 1969.

So, me and ol' T-rex took a jaunt up to the vo-tech high school to prove that Oldsmobile did in fact produce such a car way back in 1969. The teacher kept shaking his head saying he never knew such a car existed, and a herd of high-school automotive students fell in love.

That was unfortunately about time the high-profile auctions and high-rollers started ruining the car hobby, pricing cars completely out of reach of high-school aged people and nearly so for the rest of us who weren't traveling in high net worth circles.

Edited by rocketraider (see edit history)

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Thank you all very much for your kind words of encouragement. I would greatly appreciate any sample material that I can share amongst my classes, both power and Auto's. I can give my school mailing address to whoever would handle that, just PM me. A little about the powermechnics class, students explore the different ways of making power. We being with Rocketry and study how rocket engines work. Then the studens build rockets out of paper, corks, glue and a provided engine. The next unit is on the design process and students prototype a car that is powered by a C02 canister that can run a 65 foot long course in under 1 second. Finally we explore the internal combustion engine, and touch on diesel, 2 and 4 stroke, etc. Students the disassemble a small engine, measure it, hone cylinder, grind valves and seats, and re-assemble hoping that it runs at the end. :)

The wood on our old Buick is terribly rotten, it just turns to dust in your hands. The sheetmetal though is in amazing shape, some light surface rust no holes, dents, etc. I have a friend who runs an acid bath service and he has generously offered to dip all of our body componets as well as the chassis. I am considering replacing the wooden frame with a steel tubular frame but am open to suggestions. I want this to be a daily driver weather permitting.

My students were supposed to be done today with this assignemt but asked if they can keep going over the weekend. They are enjoying the side bar conversation amongst other members as well. I will be sharing the membership information with them, and have found our local AACA chapter, it is the Mississippi Valley Region, and meets less than 10 minutes away from Bettendorf. I may reach out to them and see if anyone would be willing to bring their car in so my students can see one in the flesh... or metal so to speak.

Thanks again everyone for all your help and support, this was bumpy at first but is turning out to be an awesome experience.

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MccJoseph,

I applaud your efforts in teaching your students about cars that they never would have known existed and dispelling some of the myths that cars build prior to WWII are not incapable of going faster than a go-cart.

Keep up the good work! I remember my high school auto shop in the mid-1970s. The projects consisted of shoving the biggest engine you could find into 50s-60s Fords and Chevrolets. The one project I recall was a 1965 Ford Mustang that had to have the inner fenders cut out to install the engine. Changing the plugs required removing the front tires to access the spark plugs. At the time, I had my first car, an original 1929 Studebaker. I took a lot of grief from the auto shop teacher and the students. No encouragement for restoring or collecting older cars. I never did fit in during my high school years.

I am sorry that I was not able to assist your students. Unless someone asks about Studebakers I am not much help.

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What a great project! If something like this had been done when I was in High School who knows - may have found antique cars a few years earlier!!!

i posted some info for the young man working on the GTO project and would welcome the chance to see his finished product, or a continuing dialogue here on the forum. Regardless of age, we obviously share a passion for the Tiger - in fact when working on projects like this it's often not just the cold-hard facts about the car, but the side-line stories that make fascinating reading. For example - when taking a college class a few years later in Advertising I discovered one of the top rated ads of all time was one of the few ads for a car that never actually showed the car - it was an ad for the 1966 GTO that simply showed an empty garage, door up. "The ad read - There's a Tiger on the prowl somewhere tonight." The ad is a classic!

Thanks for what you are doing - often it's like hearding cats, but the interest you are creating for our hobby will be long remembered by your students.

Terry

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It is nice to see that some schools are still offering "shop classes". Even if people do not go into a mechanical hands on type of an occupation this kind of background is good for anybody. So many school districts seem to think that this kind of stuff is old and not worth fooling with if it doesn't have a lot of computer work attached to it. Our universities are turning out a lot of engineers but an increasingly large number of graduates are from foreign countries. The old car hobby and the country will both benefit from this kind of exposure. High school students are also not very good at any kind of research so creating an interest should also teach them things that will be useful in many areas. I hope you make this a part of your lesson plans in future years as it promises to give many good teaching moments.

I realize that Cedar Rapids is a few miles from you but I would like to recommend that you contact Jon Reynolds of that region as he is a retired educator and would love to give you some help.

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The steel frame body is a good idea if you can pull it off. Making a framework out of square and round tubing would not be too hard. Getting all the panels to fit perfect, doors to shut nice etc would be the problem. Definitely worth a try.

The alternatives would be the speedster or woody. Depending what kind of wood shop and shop facilities you have, you might build either one.

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MccJoseph,

Great job with this project, I wish more schools would get involved in this way. Most High Schools in my area are dropping Power Mechanics and all automotive and metal working classes which is a horrible mistake for the country.

I was very lucky to have a good shop teacher in High School, we restored his Rolls Royce Phantom 2 (he did buy it on a teachers salary in the late 1970"s so you can imagine the shape it was in) learning all about engines, ignitions and fuel systems and body and paintwork. After three years of work we went for several drives in the car which made it all worth it. It was a great experience and I still keep in touch with him to this day.

Keep up the good work,

Martin Cooke

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Joseph,

I have sent you a private message. It's great to see your classes encouraging student interest in the history of cars along with the technology of newer ones. This is a wonderful opportunity to show the younger generation the extent of this history and its effect on society, and also to spread the word on the AACA's purpose.

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MccJoseph,

I would encourage you to go to the trouble to restore your Buick instead of modifying it. Wood can be replaced. Modifying a Buick from that era would be a shame. Keep the students interested in restoration. It may be a bit more of a challenge than modifying it, but in the end you will have a true piece of history that you can be proud of.

You should spend some time in the Buick Section of the forum. If you are not a member, both AACA membership and Buick Club of America membership would be a good investment for you.

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MccJoseph, thanks for clearing the air and thanks for involving the students in such a worthwhile project. I dearly love old cars and have been intrigued with them since before I started to school. I recall how excited I got when the 1947 Studebakers showed up on the roads. I also remember the excitement of my first trip to Hershey and also how very wet I got there. I do not own any antiques but own over 1,000 scale diecast models from 1/43rd to 1/18th scales and a very large library of automotive books, magazines, advertisements, etc. I have done volunteer auto projects at the elementary and middle schools here in this county. I could never convince the high school leadership of the value of it.

My work with the children started when a 3rd grade teacher asked me to show slides of antique cars to her class. This were before computers and projectors became popular. The kids would gather on the floor between me and the screen and never take their eyes off the screen. A photo of a 1947 Indian motorcycle came on the screen and I asked the kids what kind of motorcycle that was. (Of course the name was on the tank.) A child sitting near the screen said, "Indian." I still remember the teacher's surprise. She said, "You mean there were motorcycles named Indian? That explains that." "Explains what" I asked. Her reply was that there used to be a billboard in her home town with a picture of a motorcycle on it and the words, "We buy Indians." 'I always wondered how anybody could buy Indians." Her thinking was that Indians were Native Americans. I enjoyed the laugh.

I also did an annual car show at the school. Finding people that could bring a car to the school in the middle of the week was difficult but seeing 30 autos and maybe 200 of my models always made the kids happy. I would ask the 8th grade teachers for a few students to help me the day of the car show and the kids begged to help. The PTA would fix lunch for the visitors and everyone had a good time. People still ask me why I stopped doing the shows but I was working and it was just too much.

Another time I was asked to teach automotive history to a group of 6th graders. About 30 kids signed up for the class. I'd show them slides and talk about the development of cars, the men that started the companies, and which ones did well and which ones did not. Behavior was never a problem in the classes and we had a wonderful time. As things were winding down I asked the students to talk to a parent or a grandparent or an older relative about their first cars and for each student to bring me two stories and I would put them in booklets for them. I also invited them to do drawings to go into the booklets. I printed a copy for each student and assembled them in folders. I still have mine and enjoy reading the stories and laughing over some of them from time to time.

I guess it's too late to help with their projects but I would be glad to send you copies of DVD's I have put together. Some are of specific makes, such as Packard, while others are of cars at certain shows. For overall knowledge I would recommend books in the "Standard Catalog" series. This includes "Standard Catalog of American Cars - 1805-1942, 1946-1975, 1976-1999, and Standard Catalog of Light Duty Trucks; Automobile Quarterly (which recently stopped publishing), and anything in the Crestline series of books about individual makes. I will private message you with my email address.

John

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Re Old car speed,,,Google "Vanderbilt race 1904"" and again for 1906,,,great stuff

Don't forget while the winning speed was around 60mph,,,,,,that time included

changing 14 flat tyres,,!!! [The French GP 1907 Renault won because they could change tires faster!!}} All this before the checquerd flag,,talking film,,battery radio,,house currant radio , or even a decent road ,,coast coast,,or even a "Filling Station,!! Not even socket wrenches,,

Cheers,,Ben,,,,,Spellin an English were not my major,,could U tell,,,??

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I just wanted to say Thank you all very much for you help. My students are having a blast, I am having a blast and were all learning something in the process. My students will begin presenting today, and I have asked them to thank everyone that helped them out before its all said and done. I have been overwhelmed with all of the information and resources that members have offered to us. It is truly amazing to be part of such a great thing. I printed the AACA membership info this morning. I have teetered on joining before, but after this experience this is something I must be a part of. We reached out to our local AACA chapter, due mainly in part to contacts on here, and they are working with us to host a car show in the spring with some pretty amazing cars, (The 1933 Nash advanced 8 from Public Enemies being one of them). I think this activity has fostered relationships that will last a life time and allowed a new generation of automotive enthusiasts to "Get their feet wet". I thank you all again for the support you have shown to me and my students; and I am taking everyone's feedback on the old Buick to heart. I must admit that it weighs heavy on me when I think about chopping the doors in half with a plasma cutter to make it an open car. :(

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Please let your students know it was a pleasure working with them. They are lucky to have a teacher like you to guide them in understanding the history of the American automobile. I would have signed up for your class in a heartbeat but nothing like it was offered 40 years ago. Best of luck to you and your class.

Terry

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The fact that taking a plasma cutter to it is weighing heavy on your mind means you know the right thing to do....

Don't do something you will regret. replacing wood has to be don't either way, just a little more to keep it a sedan. but the extra wood work will be less than the metal work involved in cutting off the top and finishing it.

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How about both ways,,,,,

Take the closed body off,,put on a skid and sore it for later,,,

Build an open body,,large like a Stanley mountain wagon,,,

Simple to make,,sort of,,,and will hold more students for occasions,,

Owls Head Transportation Museum[OHTM] has a Model T streeeeeetch wagon as this

Verry popular with the crouds,,and used as a ferry to extra parking lot,,

The sedan MAY become more valuable and rarer as time goes,,But

meanwhile ,,,have fun,,,

Cheers Ben

Hey did anyone Google Stanley Steamers and x out the cleaning company

Also set record at Daytona 1906,,at 127MPH/flying mile,,,

We had steam wagons long before gas cars,,,but are ignored in history books

because ther'e not gas,,We found a steam wagon,,4 wheel drive,,patent drawings

as filed a US patent,,signed by Pres Washington,,,its got no pat # cause it predates

issueing by number,,!!!,,,date,,,1795,,,Danvers Ma ,,so there IS paper on early stuff,,SO early

nobody looks back there,,,,Look for Sylvester Roper and his many steam wagons

and self propelld fire engine,,,He died 2 June 1896

There was also a INTERNAL COMBUSTION engine/wagon around 1825-35 Moreley I think,,

Happy hunting,,,Cheers Ben

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John2dameron,

The warm up for the Hoosier tour goes to one of the local grade schools. They have September has their state history month and since all the ACD cars were made in Indiana what would a better hands on lesson be? Don't remember if it was the 3rd or 4th grade but it was quite a sight. Some cars were hands off, others were jump in and hit the horn button. The kids really enjoyed and the owners stood by their cars either assisting kids in and out or answering questions. Great way to involve the younger kids.

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