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Bill Stoneberg

64 Riviera, something let go in the engine

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OK Bill: You would know what pistons to get after the machine shop makes it's rough cut but, if the block is chewed up I would look for another core. Matching numbers is meaningless mythology and it ain't gonna get ya from a to b. BTW, Falcon Global's master kit of which I'm considering is about $1050. including shipping. I have checked with some Buick specialists and they offer much more bang for much more buck.....if you need more bang. Mitch

Edited by lrlforfun (see edit history)

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So the valve broke, beat a hole through the piston dropped into the bottom end where it bounced off the crank and hitting pistons and breaking chunks off the bottom of the bores. At least 4 of the bores will need to be sleeved and I may just go ahead and do all of them to be safe. This way I can stay with stock pistons.. more to come after visiting machine shop

Thanks for the reply bill. I get it now. Hope all turns out well for you.

arnulfo

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Believe me I am on the hunt for a block...

I also have a built 401 sitting in the garage, it was meant for another project but plans may change. We will see

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Believe me I am on the hunt for a block...

I also have a built 401 sitting in the garage, it was meant for another project but plans may change. We will see

Your 64 obviously knew about that " built 401", and knowing, simply could not help but damage itself in order to get that motor transplanted into itself.

i would be very careful around that car, particularly if you don't give it what it so obviously wants.

By the way,you don't happen to call her Christine do you?

Either way, I would not suggest lending it to any kids for prom night.

On a more serious note, sorry to hear of your valve with a death wish, and wish you the best.

Of course, it had to happen right before the holidays.

Save the money and scrap the other project and up the performance ante for the 64.

Then if you still need a motor for another project, use the one at the machine shop.

Best of luck, and have a great Holiday and a Happy New Year!

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Too bad about the damage, but stuff happens especially with aged engines. I've seen the most failures with pistons. I'm not a 'numbers' guy, so I'd use your other engine or another one to build-sleeving is an expensive proposition-good luck, Dan Mpls. Mn.

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Why no sleeves ? What is wrong with that ? Pleas explain yourself.

Over the years I have heard of many problems doing this . Dont know if it is the concept or workmanship or both . There are blocks available - that would be my choice .

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Over the years I have heard of many problems doing this . Dont know if it is the concept or workmanship or both . There are blocks available - that would be my choice .

wondering what kind of block you have ted,4 bufords

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Much work has been done in the last months. I pulled apart the spare 401 and I am glad I did. It was built as a Chevy engine. Timing was set to the wrong front cylinder, it was supposedly balanced but pistons wer 12 grams apart and the cam bearings were in wrong.

Now I have the block and lower end back and am going to start putting it together myself. It may take longer but this way if anything is messed up I only have myself to blame.

More coming later.

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Thanks for the update - pix please as you go along. Inquiring minds want to know!

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Sure glad you steered away from sleeving the cylinders ;-) Matching #'s on a KW, LX or MZ yes but anything else doesn't matter, you made good a decision and a greater decision to check that pesky cam bearing. This story has all the making to produce a warm fuzzy as another Rivi lives on!

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It will live again, dont worry about that.

Spent the day today cleaning threads and grinding flash off of castings. There are a lot of bolt holes on the block.

Off to get the block hot tanked again and then get new cam bearings in.

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Spent yesterday putting the crank back in and mowing the lawn. I was happy that all the clearances measured out withen specs.

After church, going to see about putting pistons in.

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Is "mowing the lawn" some mechanical euphemism I haven't heard yet? For de-burring the castings, maybe? Its a new one on me. Oh well, you learn something every day!

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Now, mowing the lawn it just what it sounds like, following a mower while taking a walk.

Yesterday, we put the pistons in. Sounds easy, well 7 went in with no issues. # 8 that was a different story.

Tried that one numerous times with a couple of different ring compressors. It kept getting hung on the oil scraper. Just wouldn't go int the hole correctly.

After some studying, it seems that the hole was the only one that was not chamfered. A file and a grinding wheel (not running just scraped) fixed that issue.

It still took two of us to get that last one on, one holding the ring compressor tight to the block while the other hit the piston gently.

Anyway it took two hours to get the last piston in.

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could a timing chain failure been the cause of the valve tearing up that piston? What would cause a valve to just let go?

Adnulfo, The valve stem broke in half right above the valve, dropping it into the combustion chamber. There it acted like a large ball bearing in a dishwasher full of glass. It broke at least 3 pistons and I dont trust any of the rest and it broke the bottom of some cylinders. I still had compression and I am hoping I dont have to have them sleeved. Will know more after I take it to the machine shop.

John, I will keep you in mind for the pistons as I dont know what I will need yet. I would perfer not to go oversized if I can avoid it.

Good news is that the crank looked good, no scoring or scratches on the rod bearing surfaces. Going to pull the mains tonoght and look at them. Oil pump screen was full of metal particles though. I pulled a baggie of metal out of the bottom of the engine.

Brought this up again because i read in a motorcycle forum that some valves are two piece valves . That is they start off as two pieces and are welded / machined into one. They are notorius for breaking the way bills did on harley evo motors. Could it be that nailhead factory valves are two piece? Thats a scary thought! First time i ever heard of two piece valves. Seems like a bad design . What say you men?

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It still took two of us to get that last one on, one holding the ring compressor tight to the block while the other hit the piston gently.

Anyway it took two hours to get the last piston in.

That story told by a Chief Financial Officer makes me think of how hard it is for my wife to make a simple Quickbooks entry sometimes She keeps the books for my work.

Bernie

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Cam and timing gears / chain are now in.. Family time for the rest of the day.

Bill, no posts since May....did you get the car running again?

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Nope, The engine is in the car, most everything is re attached and I was hoping for some time this Christmas to work on it.

BUT, as usual, life got in the way. Cold weather (for us) and a pulled muscle has made it so I couldn't stand in the garage for any period of time.

It is supposed to be warmer this weekend and if it is, I plan on working on the car. I want to get it up and running again.

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Its been 11 months or so and I blew up the engine I put in above.  Didn't even make it through cam break in before starting to knock.  Pulled it apart and the bearings were trashed and the bores scored.  

 

Rebuilt another engine and it is back in the car and about to start.  Need better luck with this one...

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