Painting antique Car

[FrankWest107]

Does paint need to be baked on?

Or with the use of new acryics is this no longer nesessay?

Approx cost for single color Black new painting over primer,,,,,

$2000 approx?

[CarlLaFong]

Paint on cars has not been baked for years. The "baked" enamel jobs that places, like Scheib, offered were just force dried so they could get them out of the booths as soon as possible. All of the new paints have hardeners added so they dry very quickly and there is no baking required, nor is it even recommended

[trimacar]

The paint itself is getting very expensive, black not too bad but some reds at $400 to $600 per gallon.

The quality of a paint job is 90% dependent on the body and preparation work, and that's where the real labor cost of a show quality paint job is....

You can get paint sprayed on for less than a $1000 at such a place as Maaco, just don't expect good surface prep nor chrome removal or neat masking.

A nice driver quality paint job will cost you $5000-10,000, a show quality job $15,000-20,000..... Expect more for a high dollar Classic.....

If you find a cost less than those mentioned, you're fortunate...

[FrankWest107]

wow, much more than i thought! what about 29.95 and earl schibb handed you a single edged razor blade after you paid, so that you can clean the windshield.

Thanks for the info. I will make sure i buy a car that does not need to be painted.

[joe_padavano]

As noted, the cost (and quality) of a paint job is a function of the prep labor that goes into it beforehand. I do all my own prep and paint work, and it costs me well over $1000 just for materials. Any body work or metal repair is on top of that. The 90% labor number is about right. $8k-$10K for a quality paint job is the going rate. Yes, you can spend less for crappy work. Your car, your call. Black requires the body to be arrow straight, increasing the labor cost for prep.

[FrankWest107]

Thanks for your info. I guess looking for a car with original paint is the best way to go.

I don;t want a perfect car that I can put on a shield, I just want a nice looking original car that takes me back to the 1930's.

[Guest Skyking]

Thanks for your info. I guess looking for a car with original paint is the best way to go.

I don;t want a perfect car that I can put on a shield, I just want a nice looking original car that takes me back to the 1930's.

Finding a 1930's car with nice original paint could be a chore. Good luck

[FrankWest107]

Finding a 1930's car with nice original paint could be a chore. Good luck

Without the need to bake dry can a car be painted at home. Or will it always look as though it was painted at home?

[trimacar]

Some people with a lot of patience and some skills can turn out nice paint jobs at home, and just like "professional" work, the results can vary greatly.....

Back in the old days (and I'm talking up to the 70's or so, that was the beauty of lacquer paint...it dried almost instantly, so painting a car in a warehouse was no problem.....and the results could be outstanding. With enamel it's tougher to do, but again, a lot of the cost is in prep, so if you did that yourself, then find someone to shoot it....

[alsancle]

Without the need to bake dry can a car be painted at home. Or will it always look as though it was painted at home?

It will always look like it was painted at home unless you happen to be a professional body man.

[TerryB]

I remember seeing cars painted with a case of rattle cans or with a bucket of paint and a brush. Not for show cars but many back yard restorations of driver cars in the 1960s were done this way.

Terry

[old car fan]

I painted a 1966 gto clone in lacquer years ago,looked awesome after polish.Of course,laquer is forgiving.

[CarlLaFong]

It isn't necessarily true that a car painted at home will look like it was done at home. Assuming the car is straight (the original question was about paint, not body work) an amature can do a very nice job with few skills and minimal equipment. Acrylic lacquers are still available and are very forgiving, especially when it is a straight color, without metallic. Runs, sags, dry spots and even dust and small bugs can all be removed during the color sanding and buffing/polishing phase. The new base coat/clear coat, waterbournes and hi tech catalyzed are best left to the pros, especially the cyanoacrylate stuff

[alsancle]

Assuming the car is straight

I would say this would be the biggest issue. If you are not a good body guy you will never get a car straight. I was 10 years old and I could spot a wavy car at 100 yards.

Otherwise, I agree you can block the crap out of lacquer and make it look good.

[trimacar]

If doing it yourself, block sanding is the keyword(s)....a piece of sandpaper with just your hand behind it will just leave waves, as your hand can do by itself....

To make an optically correct surface, upon which to apply the paint, is the art. Applying paint is just science, mixtures and pattern ( yes, there's some art to it)...and the first is the tough part.

I've seen garage paint jobs, with attention to detail, that can and have scored highly at shows....so a blanket statement of "it can't be done" is incorrect...depends on the person and the effort...

[trimacar]

Ok, just have to make one more comment, as I grew up in the hobby in the '60's, when getting the cars out was more important than appearance, and paint job quality was secondary to being there.

I'd rather hear about or see someone touring with a home garage paint job than sitting at home with their "perfect" car sitting in the garage under a cover....

[CarlLaFong]

I've painted a few cars at home, as well as bikes, and have done OK. Of course, I used to paint, for a living, back in the Jurrasic era. I have 2 gallons of black and red lacquer in the garage, right here in the California South Coast Air Basin, that I ordered from a vendor on eBay. I'll be shooting my Dodge Ram, which has a terminal case of Dodge paint leprosy. I expect it will come out just fine.

[trimacar]

Whew, John, I did a bunch of work in California and am familiar with the incredibly restrictive regulations, hope the Lacquer Police don't show up at your place for that paint!

Glad to hear that there are still garage painters out there!!

[RansomEli]

Alsancle is correct. 95% of a good paint job is proper body preparation. There are lots of good videos and articles on how to prepare a car for painting - priming, block sanding, etc.

I have painted several cars with acrylic lacquer, including red and black, and produced excellent results. It just takes lots of time for redos and tons of time for block sanding. This 1980 Chevy was painted in my driveway. After 8 years it still looks good. Acrylic lacquer.

[Paul Dobbin]

I remember seeing cars painted with a case of rattle cans or with a bucket of paint and a brush. Not for show cars but many back yard restorations of driver cars in the 1960s were done this way.

Terry

In 1960 we moved to Florida and in the garage of the house my parents bought was an Electrolux Vacumn cleaner, with a paint attachemnt, plus a bunch of old enamal paint cars. My brother and I painted his 51 Olds 98 convertable many times (It faded quickly in the FL sun)

After we mastered the Electrolux we bought a US Navy surplus "Crosley" air compressor and a real paint gun and we became hopeless car nuts before I left for the Air Force at age 17.

As Trimcar said "I'd rather hear about or see someone touring with a home garage paint job than sitting at home with their "perfect" car sitting in the garage under a cover.... "

There is more to the hobby than $20,000 paint jobs, Barrett Jackson cars and trophies.

[alsancle]

If doing it yourself, block sanding is the keyword(s)....a piece of sandpaper with just your hand behind it will just leave waves, as your hand can do by itself.....

I wish it was as simple as just using a block. When dealing with a long door or quarter I was NEVER able to get them straight. There is some art & experience at work that I just never mastered.

[Restorer32]

Just paid something over $500/gallon for PPG base Burgundy metallic. 2 gallons of paint, 1 gallon of clear (not enough to do the job) plus the required hardeners came to over $1500.

[trimacar]

Hey, there are directions on the Internet for a $50 paint job.....brush coat with Rust-Oleum and sand it out.....although that may be a little extreme....

[Restorer32]

Wagner Power Painter bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Guest Skyking]

Without the need to bake dry can a car be painted at home. Or will it always look as though it was painted at home?

Some of the best paint jobs I've seen came out of people's garages. If you've seen my cars and then my set up, ( no booth, no expensive compressor) you would never think I painted them myself, and I'm just a hobbyist. It can be done, and be quite nice.

Check out my latest............

http://metropolitan.freeforums.org/the-restoration-of-my-1954-metropolitan-541-t1829.html

Edited November 6, 2013 by Skyking (see edit history)

[Guest billybird]

Some of the best paint jobs I've seen came out of people's garages. If you've seen my cars and then my set up, ( no booth, no expensive compressor) you would never think I painted them myself, and I'm just a hobbyist. It can be done, and be quite nice.

Thank you! Me too. People ask me constantly: "who painted this car, It's one of the best paint jobs I've ever seen". I always tell them, It's not how good you are with the gun but how good you are with the sandpaper and buffer. Agreed; surface prep is paramount. Nevertheless, I feel when it comes to painting cars some peoples twigs tend to be bent in that direction. Sort of like music. Just because you own a guitar don't mean you will be able to play it.

[FJD]

Hello all I don't want to hijack the thread, but I have a question for Restorer 32. Please see my previous post. Thank you. An answer to my question may also help Frank West in his project. Thank you

[auburnseeker]

I agree color sanding, and I'm not talking 1500 or 2000 grit to start, can make your driveway look like a mirror. That pretty much sums up the cars I have worked on in the past several years. I love buying cars that need to be repainted because the paint is lumpy, lots of orange peel, runs, sags etc. I hit most of them with 600 grit. One was so bad I even hit a few spots with 400. It's like polishing stainless or aluminum, you have to get below the lowest point to make it smooth, Provided you have enough paint on the surface to do so. Then work your way up. Enamels even work fine today with the hardeners. Centari by Dupont used to be pretty good to work with. I think they discontinued it though.

Of course a blotchy metallic job is pretty much hopeless. But an even metallic job with Clear comes out spectacular.

When you do it though Just put it on even and don't be cheap, make sure you have enough on to work out. When you are are done people will be amazed. I have always been tempted to take an old beater and paint it with a brush, then wet sand it out and buff it. When you told people you painted it with a brush they would never believe you unless you had a spot that was undone. Of course even that you want to thin the paint properly so it lays as flat as possible with no brush marks. You would need to do several coats. I did the bottom of the 36 Dodge Watercar and you would swear it had been sprayed by a professional shop. The epiphanus paint I used thinned 30-40 percent went on real well though. No color sanding needed when I was done. That was on a creeper as well working over my head.

I worked with a friend on a 39 Chris Craft, a 36 Dodge Watercar and a 46 Garwood. He did a great job of laying on the varnish but when he was done it wasn't quite smooth enough to rival the boats from top shops so I told him wet sand it all out when you are done and I'll Buff it. Well the result was a first place at the Clayton Boat show.

[Restorer32]

Hello all I don't want to hijack the thread, but I have a question for Restorer 32. Please see my previous post. Thank you. An answer to my question may also help Frank West in his project. Thank you

I confuse easily. You're previous post?

[Restorer32]

I figured it out. Yes we do sometimes use ALK-200 as a low budget non show car semi gloss finish for frames and under fenders, etc. It's basically an inexpensive non-tintable equipment paint. As an aside, people seem to be in love with semi gloss because it hides a lot of ugly and are prone to use it where a gloss finish would be more original. Not all frames/chassis/inner fenders were semi gloss. I suspect more folks use semi gloss on parts that were originally gloss than vice versa.

[39BuickEight]

Many people can paint at home and have fantastic results, but that's from lots of experience, trial and error, and patience.. Painting a car has too many variables to really get any idea what it would cost without taking it to the painter in person. The biggest of which is whether you're talking any body work at all, or just painting? Many painters won't paint over a car that they have not prepped themself.

[FJD]

Restorer 32 I have sent you a PM. But I would like to publicly Thank you for the time you devote to helping folks on the forum.

[Guest billybird]

Many people can paint at home and have fantastic results, but that's from lots of experience, trial and error, and patience.. Painting a car has too many variables to really get any idea what it would cost without taking it to the painter in person. The biggest of which is whether you're talking any body work at all, or just painting? Many painters won't paint over a car that they have not prepped themself.

Conversely; many painters don't want you painting a car they prepped. You have to find someone willing to work with you.

[Hudsy Wudsy]

As most of you already know, there was a time long, long ago when cars were painted with brushes at the factory. I wanted to post a picture of one of those remarkably long brushes for the benefit of those who have never seen one, but I can't seem to find one. I recall being shocked by the sight of one when I first encountered it years ago. Do any of you have a search term that might work to come up with a picture of one?

[Guest Roj]

Don't know where you buy your paint, but you should try TCP Global, they have laquer and it is between $100-$200 for (Red) per gallon. What you just paid for $1,500 should cost $500 and it's Dupont. No I don't work for them, but I highly recommend them.

[FrankWest107]

Wow! Long brushes! Really? You would think they must have had paint sprayers even in the 20's? If they really used brushes they probably used a paint of just the right consistency that would leave no brush marks? Is that possible?

[FrankWest107]

Many people can paint at home and have fantastic results, but that's from lots of experience, trial and error, and patience.. Painting a car has too many variables to really get any idea what it would cost without taking it to the painter in person. The biggest of which is whether you're talking any body work at all, or just painting? Many painters won't paint over a car that they have not prepped themself.

I always like to try to do everything myself, but sometimes run into terrible consequences. Some things are best left to the experts. I am a watchmaker and have used dial refinishing services, where for 35 bucks they would turn your old rusted/tarnished watch dial into an almost brand new looking dial...I still am not sure how they can to it? It is like magic.

[Restorer32]

Don't know where you buy your paint, but you should try TCP Global, they have laquer and it is between $100-$200 for (Red) per gallon. What you just paid for $1,500 should cost $500 and it's Dupont. No I don't work for them, but I highly recommend them.

Well there is paint and then there is paint. PPG makes the cheap stuff also. You get what you pay for.

[ply33]

Wow! Long brushes! Really? You would think they must have had paint sprayers even in the 20's? If they really used brushes they probably used a paint of just the right consistency that would leave no brush marks? Is that possible?

No painter am I but I believe it was called "coach painting" and used a relatively slow drying paint and the time between coats was, I think, measured in days. And each coat was hand sanded with pumice. So they had big rooms filled with drying car bodies and the painting stage was a big issue for any type of high volume production. Henry Ford found a black paint that could be hosed on with most running off into a catch trough to be reused and that paint was, I think, baked for rapid drying. That cut the typical bottleneck of painting out of his manufacturing process and allowed his high volume. But that meant that all his cars were black leading to a famous quote. All that changed around 1924 when spray enamel and spray lacquer paints were invented.

Edit: Found a reasonably readable article about automotive paint history at http://www.bodyshopbusiness.com/Article/4057/behind_the_paint_history.aspx

Edit: Found a picture of Japan Black being hosed onto a Model T:

Edited November 7, 2013 by ply33 (see edit history)

[joe_padavano]

Well there is paint and then there is paint. PPG makes the cheap stuff also. You get what you pay for.

X2. All of the major paint manufacturers have several lines of paint at different price points, with different quality. The paint you would use on a daily driver is not the same as the paint you would use on a car that you've put years into restoring. I bought some inexpensive paint ($300 for primer, base, and clear coat) from a vendor at Carlisle. I haven't shot it yet, but for my daily driver I don't care about longevity or show quality. I actually bought this as a test, but I wouldn't intend to use it on one of my 442s, for example.

As for painting at home, I've done it. It isn't difficult to erect a temporary spray booth in your garage (or outside, using PVC pipe and plastic sheeting). You need a supplied air breathing system for most modern paints - the old cartridge respirators just don't protect against isocyanates. Also, spraying modern BC/CC paint is much different from spraying lacquer (and in most areas you can't even purchase lacquer any more due to EPA constraints). I've also found that most people do not know how to use a paint spray gun correctly. They are constantly on and off the trigger, spraying in patches, instead of smoothly covering the length of the vehicle. This technique, along with the proper overlap, are essential for spraying metallic colors. If you haven't sprayed before, I would strongly recommend taking a course at your local community college or VoTech high school.

I was also pleasantly surprised to find that my local Maaco dealer was willing to rent me time in his spray booth. I've rented booth time in the past, and a properly illuminated spray booth is MUCH more enjoyable to use than a temporary booth that you erect in your garage.