Saving original paint... on rusty body panels?

[Guest Bredlo]

Hey all,

Hoping someone will have advice on saving the original factory paint on our '53 Chrysler.. and more specifically, the steel underneath. Doors open and close solidly, interior is perfect, engine runs strong... but 60 years as a funeral home floral vehicle in upstate New York has taken its toll on the undercarriage, wheel wells, and the inside of the tailgate is filled with leaves and water every time it rains from lack of weatherstripping.

I love its weathered, semi-survivor exterior; it looks great from 10 feet away, but the belt buckle scratches on the front fender and hazy swirls make it usable, something you don't need to be afraid of. I am afraid, however, of the backsides of these body panels: particularly the insides of the doors, tail gate, and especially fenders where it looks like rust is coming off in giant flakes.

Has anybody here ever tried to stop further deterioration with a rust encapsulation product (i.e. Por-15) applied to the insides of rusty panels? We're upgrading the engine / trans / brakes / electrical to use the wagon as a long-distance tow vehicle and daily driver. It will be sitting on a donor frame (of the same model) in far better shape for improved strength, so that's not a concern.

Obviously I'd like to prolong this car's lifespan... and I'm hoping if I get inside all these areas, that there's a solution that doesn't require stripping the whole thing bare. Grateful for advice.

[Taylormade]

If you are going to put the body and fenders on another frame, it's going to mean a great deal of disassembly - heck, you'll basically have to take the whole car apart! That will certainly give you a chance to examine the hidden areas you're concerned about. There are no double panels in the fenders of Chrysler products of this era, so you'll be able to get to the metal on the back with no problems. How far you want to go is up to you. POR-15 will drastically slow down the rust problem but will never completely stop it. It will allow you to keep the exterior paint as it is - although you will have to clean the surface rust around the holes. You're going to have to live with those rust holes, however, as cutting out the bad metal and replacing it will obviously destroy the paint around the repair. I would be wary as my 32 Dodge looked pretty good before I took the fenders off and discovered what was really lurking below the shiny black paint - more rust than I ever imagined. They had to be rebuilt as about 50 percent of the metal was gone. If you really want to prolong the car's lifespan, It looks like you have a major structural problem with the tops of those front fenders and when you take things apart you will probably make it worse. I'd replace the rusted out metal and do your best to match the paint on the rest of the car - although I suspect you'll end up doing so much work you'll have to repaint it anyway..

Edited October 16, 2013 by Taylormade (see edit history)

[DavidMc]

Fish oil sprayed on the rusty panels every few years seems to stop the progression of the rust.

[Bhigdog]

You may be able to slow the rust's progression but you'll never get in everyplace you need and you'll never stop it. And while you may be sleeping it will still be busy...............Bob

[Luv2Wrench]

All of the above advice is good. My advice isn't much different but I would spray coat after coat of Klean-Strip Phosphoric Prep and Etch. Lightly brush off the black iron residue (which was the rust) between coats until you've gotten rid of most of the rust. One last coat and then some paint or POR-15 or equiv.

[Guest Bredlo]

All great advice, thanks guys! And I appreciate the additional anecdote, Taylormade... even if it's a bit depressing in my current circumstance.

I should add I have a second entire wagon - a '54 New Yorker - that I sourced for the cleaner, better frame. That whole body is straight and has far less rust than my '53, but it has no paint, no interior, a broken windshield and even though I could theoretically move my interior and windshield over and into this better car... I'd then be stuck with an 8-10 thousand dollar paint job, which is something I don't have to worry about with the '53.

I may stick with this '53 for now, and see if we can get a little further into the frame swap before calling it quits.

Also wondering, though I'm sure it's quite unorthodox - if anybody has ever decided to forego replacing thinned, rusty areas by cutting them out and instead encapsulating the rust - and following up with fiberglass and epoxy to reintroduce strength into that area. Just thinking out loud.

Edited October 17, 2013 by Bredlo (see edit history)

[trimacar]

By upgrading the engine, trans etc. does that mean you're putting a small block Chevy in it, or are you just rebuilding the originals? Would be a shame to hot rod a survivor such as that.........

[Restorer32]

Rust is like an iceberg. What you see is only 10% of the total. I seriously doubt you could disassemble this car without doing damage to fenders etc that would necessitate serious metal work. I would bet the body mounting points are seriously deteriorated. My advice, spray it underneath with oil, keep it dry and enjoy it as is.

[Guest Bredlo]

Trimacar, thanks for weighing in on that. I know this kind of thing is a touchy subject, especially on a board like this. I have all the admiration in the world for people with the knowledge and energy to keep their classic cars authentic. I've restored many pieces of antique furniture, a Vespa scooter, and even cast iron printing presses and it's not easy.

That said, yes: we will be replacing the flathead 6 with a 5.7 Hemi, a 5 spd automatic, 12v wiring, disc brakes all around, a larger radiator and a custom heavy duty tow hitch. I really wanted to keep the essence of the car's DNA intact, which is why I went with the Hemi. No, it's not an old 331 Hemi but I can hold my head high that I didn't wimp out with a Chevy crate motor, either. That was unacceptable in my opinion.

That may seem like splitting hairs to some, but because we plan on using this wagon to pull our 1954 Airstream all over the country (and for months at a time,) we wanted a safe and reliable car for modern highways, western deserts, mountain passes and even L.A. traffic.

My goal certainly isn't to have a hot rod, but a well-mannered highway cruiser with oomph when we need it. And we intend to keep it completely original from the exterior: from a factory ride height and non-tinted glass... to the skinny 15" wheels and hubcaps it was born with. No noisy mufflers, no painted flames, no louvered hood.

I hope the authenticity that we lose by replacing the mechanicals... will be made up for by the joy it brings us (and others?) for years to come. I'm trying to respect it - by my definition, anyhow - by using it for the same purpose for which it was designed.

[Guest Bredlo]

Rust is like an iceberg. What you see is only 10% of the total. I seriously doubt you could disassemble this car without doing damage to fenders etc that would necessitate serious metal work. I would bet the body mounting points are seriously deteriorated. My advice, spray it underneath with oil, keep it dry and enjoy it as is.

Of course I hope you're wrong... but I suspect you speak from experience! I'll have to do some disassembly for the work we're doing, unfortunately. But I'll try and keep it as intact as possible, and baby it for its next 60 years. Thanks for the tip!

[Bleach]

I'd suggest leaving the car alone and let it rust in one piece. When you start disassembling a car so rusty as yours it will become the proverbial plumbers nightmare. The moment you start taking it apart you will find yourself breaking more things then you bargained for. You will be in the process of removing something you want and you will break something else and that will break something else. Do yourself a favor and just work on preserving as it is. The upgrades you mention will end up destroying a car that has managed to survive for 60 years. Use the other car as your blank canvas and do the upgrades on it.

[Guest Bredlo]

The upgrades you mention will end up destroying a car that has managed to survive for 60 years. Use the other car as your blank canvas and do the upgrades on it.

A valid suggestion - I'll take it into consideration. I'm sure you're right that the other one would make a better blank canvas, particularly if money were no object.

[Dwight Romberger]

Before I put $1 or one hour of labor in a 60 year old car with a failed body and deteriorated frame, I would make real sure there is not another 1953 Chrysler flower car/hearse out there that you could buy for a 5th of what it would cost to restore that body!

And I don't mean just checking ebay to see if one is listed this week. If this is really your dream car, take at least a year maybe two searching every image of 1953 chrysler flower cars on google. The survivors are going to be in the Southwest somewhere or in some old funeral palor garage.

Puting an ad in the funeral directors professional trade magazine might bring some leads. Find out who owns them and if they will sell. Join the professional vehicle association and check their rolls and registered cars.

Contact funeral car trader: http://www.funeralcartrader.com/ and put an add in there with a finders fee.

Resurrecting the dead is not as easy as it looks on TV. It's always easier to keep a healthy one going.

Dwight

Edited October 19, 2013 by Dwight Romberger (see edit history)

[Guest Bredlo]

Thanks for the suggestion and link, Dwight. I agree that patience is important here. We'll proceed with caution!

[c49er]

Boy, that is one rusty wagon-sad to say.

[GLong]

Even if your time is worth only $1 per hour, you would be money ahead to restore and 'upgrade' the other solid car.. and pay for the paint job,

Rust never sleeps and it's damage is often hidden. Once you start it will never end.

Why not spend some of the effort you would use to repair or try to arrest the rust, and learn to paint the solid car ?? Since you are not making a 100pt show car, a decent paint job will look very good, and be a lot less work that any amount of futile rust repair or attempts to arrest the progression of the existing rust..

Greg L

[DavidAU]

You would also worry about what would happen in an accident.

If the rust has taken any of the structural rigidity out of the vehicle and it certainly looks like it has around the front fenders at least, it could fold up like a

wet paper bag if it takes a hit.

No original paint job is worth someone getting injured

[Guest Bredlo]

Great point - yeah, I don't need to be towing a 3500 lb. trailer with a wet bag!

Edited October 29, 2013 by Bredlo (see edit history)

[Rusty_OToole]

As the wagon is black, repairs may not be as costly as you fear. Black is easy to match. Repairs can be spot painted or a single panel painted.

[Guest Bredlo]

Thanks to everyone for their input and opinions -- including those I'd secretly hoped would be wrong about the difficulty of saving this rusty '53.

I took the car to a restoration shop and we looked at it on a lift over the weekend. Using flashlights, magnets and a screwdriver to probe every inch we could access to determine the extent of the damage - we discovered all four fenders are heavily fiberglassed, only two body mounts remain, the rocker panels have been replaced... and sadly the list went on. The lovely exterior covers a true disaster from a structural point of view.

So, rather than spend the time and money to mate this body to the other wagon's solid frame... we will now (as some suggested all along) use the extremely clean, nearly identical '54 wagon as our project: outfitting with all modern mechanicals, and using as a daily driver, long distance cruiser, and tow vehicle.

As for the '53: given the safety issues and limited audience who will want to taken on the task of repairing it... the '53 will donate its nearly perfect interior, glass, wheels, all trim and whatever else I can utilize. I'll likely keep the doors, tailgate and other wagon-only parts that are still in great shape, and sell the strong running flat 6 to anyone who can use it. I have over $5500 wrapped up in the '53, so I have no guilt about utilizing whatever parts I can.

Thanks again for weighing in.