Smoke from valve cover breather

[fhogeweg]

I have a 1959 Ford Fairlane 500 with a 223 3.6L L6. This engine has been in stock for about 20 - 30 years before I installed it in my car.

I changed all filters, ignition, gaskets (including the headgasket and the machine shop straightend the head), grinding the valves, fluids changes, etc.

Now the engine runs very strong and fine, but has a lot of smoke coming from the filler tube and cranckcase breather. It seams to do it more when it warms up then it does when its cold. So my though was the piston rings so we did a compression test with these results;

#1 110

#2 120

#3 125

#4 100

#5 128

#6 125

Not to bad if you ask me!? the manual told me it should have 140 - 160 so there is a difference. We have another 59 Ford with the same engine and that one does not smoke, so we did a nother test to compare with these results;

#1 125

#2 120

#3 90

#4 95

#5 125

#6 120

This one was even lower! Where can my smoke come from, and how can i solve this? don't know what to try any more. The spark plugs are fouled some times from the oil and there is some oil on the threat of the plug.

Any help is welcome!

[Guest WEB 38]

Sounds like it could be the valve guides? Bill

[PONTIAC1953]

your engine needs new valve guide seals to keep oil from getting past the valve guides.

[mastertech]

sounds to me its blow by passed the rings, compression may be good but if cylinders are tapered the rings wont seat at the bottom causing blow by. Need to do a cylinder leakage test.

[fhogeweg]

I installed a complete overhaul gasket kit. So also complete new valve stem seals.

But those seals don't keep in place when the valves move. They go up and down with the valve is this normal?

Thanks for the replies

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[fhogeweg]

And if the oil goes past the valve guide seals the smoke should be getting out of my exhaust right? Not from the valve cover?

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[mastertech]

seals will move up and down . if enough oil goes past will smoke usually at start up.

[fhogeweg]

Ok but at start up the problem is not, or not as bad, there.

[Beltfed]

A couple of suggestions....Did you pull all the plugs before doing the compression check? If not, this might help get your overall compression numbers up a bit. A teaspoon of oil put into a cylinder will seal the rings for a short time. This will help determine if the rings are your problem. Good luck.

[Guest WEB 38]

What wt. oil are you using? This engine called for straight 30 wt. Bill

[Rusty_OToole]

Your engine does not call for 30wt oil. It uses 10W30.

Obviously you have a blowby problem. It is probably from compression gasses getting past the rings. This does not seem possible, the rings must be good to have such good compression. Unless the oil control rings are stuck from sitting.

It may be possible to free up the rings. Fill the crankcase with light oil like 10W30 or lighter. Synthetic oil is better for this. Add some Rislone, Bardahl, Marvel Mystery Oil or similar additive. One that says "frees sticky rings" on the container. I recommend MMO but you may have your favorite brand.

Now go for a long drive, at least 200 Km. Check your oil burning again. It should be reduced or eliminated. It may take several thousand Km of driving for a complete cure. But you should see some results after one trip. The engine must get completely hot then drive for an hour or more.

If this produces no result you may need to take the engine apart, hone the cylinders and install new rings.

[fhogeweg]

I did take out all plugs before testing. Did not do the wet test so will be doing that tomorrow.

I used 15w-40 oil. Could that cause these problems?

[Rusty_OToole]

15W40 will not cause oil burning but it is not the best for freeing sticky rings either. If your engine was in good condition, 15W40 would be the correct oil to use. But under the circumstances thinner oil may help free up stuck parts.

Did you take off the oil pan and clean out the sludge before you installed the engine?

[fhogeweg]

Thanks for the advise rusty. I will be getting the license for the car end of next week (car came from France). Hope the weather works with me for next weekend.

But don't really think the gasses are compression gasses. The look blue and smell like real oil burning. As well as my oil level that keeps getting lower!

[fhogeweg]

Yes did take out the sludge out of the pan. The was quit a bit bit that nothing strange for an old engine right?

Could it also be a broken ring? Head is been off twice now and last time a head bolt broke so don't want to take the head off again and risk another problem.

[Rusty_OToole]

I don't see how there could be very much wear in the pistons, rings and cylinders with such high compression. The only way I can account for so much blowby is if the oil control rings are stuck.

The best way to find the problem and cure it, is to strip the engine down for inspection and replacement of the rings. I can see why you don't want to do that, if it is possible to avoid it. This is why I recommend thin oil, detergent oil or synthetic, with an additive to free up the rings. If it works aha! what a genius! If it doesn't work you have lost nothing.

[TexasJohn55]

fhogeweg,

Does your engine have a road draft tube on the side cover to vent crankcase gases? Is it open and smoking from there also? If it is, you have alot of blowby. Blowby gases are primarily from rings not sealing. You can get some blowby from exhaust valve guides if extremely worn but is not likely. You could spot this with the valve cover off and also see if the smoke is coming up from the bottom of the engine while idling.

If you had the head off, what did the cylinder walls look like, did they have a ridge in the top with a noticeable step at the top of ring travel area?

Sounds to me like it is time for an overhaul.

As for correct oil, check your book. 10w30 should be fine. 15w40 is a diesel oil with a C rating for compression ignition. Spark ignition engines use an S rated oil. There is alot of discussion and disagreement about what is best for flat tappet engines. Ambient temperatures should dictate what weight oil is best for you.

My reference book for that engine in '57 gives cranking compression spec of 150 psi minimum. That doesn't mean it won't run on 110 psi. That spec is to evaluate an engine after break-in and is useful to determine wear and condition of engine.

Edited October 13, 2013 by TexasJohn55 (see edit history)

[fhogeweg]

Yep that's right! Will be trying that in the coming week and be doing a leek down test as well as a wet compression test just to be sure.

Anyone has some other ideas!? Please let me know.

For now thanks to all of you!

[fhogeweg]

Hi texasjohn,

My engine does have a road draft tube to vent the crankcase gasses.

When the engine is already warm and is just started the gasses come directly from the crankcase the the top of the engine.

Cylinders looked very good, not worn or damaged. Have some photos from it will be posting them directly. The 15w-40 should be a gas oil as far as the can reeds.

The photo is from the broken head bolt and all cylinders looked the same as this one.

As far as we know, the engine came out a good driving car, but thats about 15 years ago when we bought the car. The car was sitting far 15 by the previous owner, so i am not to sure how good it was.

[fhogeweg]

Do you guys think that Seafoam will work to loosen those rings?

I love over in Europe and can not buy the brands that where mentioned in this tread. I got some Seafoam from a friend of mine.

Thanks. And all other ideas are still welcome!!!

[hchris]

I installed a complete overhaul gasket kit. So also complete new valve stem seals.

But those seals don't keep in place when the valves move. They go up and down with the valve is this normal?

Thanks for the replies

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My 2 cents; there are two or more sets of rings used on most pistons, the upper set maintain compression the lower set are oil scraper rings.

You can have good compression but that doesnt mean the oil scraper rings are doing there job; with an engine that has sat around for a while you will inevitabely have a corrosion mark on the bore where the rings sat and the oil scraper rings will probably have gummed up, this combination usually exhibits itself exactly as you are describing once a sitting engine is put back into use.

Leak down test, oil in the bore etc. are not going to tell you anymore than you already know, having done the valve seals as you have there arent meany other options, which of course as Rusty has said, means replacing the rings.

You could get lucky with some of those oil treatments and I guess its worth a try before you go tearing things apart.

[fhogeweg]

Thanks hchris,

Will be putting in some oil treatment and try to loosen up those rings.

After I get my license for the car I'm gonna drive it and will post if it gets better.

Thanks to all!

[TexasJohn55]

It is difficult to tell from the picture you posted but it appears that the top of the piston is shiny clean and has a textured appearance. There also appears to be 2 notches at the crown above the top ring. Did the pistons have a pebbled surface or were they smooth? I don't see any carbon on top which is unusual. Did the cylinder head surface look textured also or was it slick and smooth? My reason for asking is that if the top of the pistons and head surface are that rough then you have broken top rings and they have danced around awhile. If the pistons are rough but the head surface was smooth then that would indicate pistons burning and would result in a rough pitted surface. I'm assuming the pistons are aluminum. Again, I hope that it is just the picture focus or reflections cuasing it to appear rough.

[fhogeweg]

The piston surface was indeed a rough pitted surface but the head on the block (where the gasket lays) was nice and smooth.

I have a pic from the head where it was off the car.

I cleaned out the carbon on the head and pistons.

The inside from the head (next to the valves) was also pitted.

[Curti]

Do you guys think that Seafoam will work to loosen those rings?

I love over in Europe and can not buy the brands that where mentioned in this tread. I got some Seafoam from a friend of mine.

Thanks. And all other ideas are still welcome!!!

Yes, I used to have a 1960 Jeep CJ5 that was used as a plow vehicle that had a rebuilt engine. It ran strong all winter, but after it sat over the summer, on startup it would run poorly and burn oil. Seafoam in the oil and gas tank and a bit down the carb. worked wonders.

[fhogeweg]

Have been working on the Ford tonight. I took out the plugs, did som seafoam on the pistons and leave it for about 30 - 45 min.

Also added some to the engine oil and gas tank. It was running real smooth untill I added the seafoam. Now it is really running rough on idle and sometimes even dies.

Can did be caused by the seafoam?? That should dissapear after a couple of minutes right? we had it running for almost 30 min.

Hope someone can help out on this!

[fhogeweg]

This is a old topic, I know but after some other problems and no time to work on the car, I want to update the last results.

The engine still smokes a lot so the Seafoam did not help for this problem.

We will be driving the car for a couple of miles in the coming time to see if the problem is getting better or if we need to rebuild the engine.

Thanks to all that have helped out.

Ferdy

[GLong]

From the looks of the cylinder head, the engine has some miles on it, so it might just be worn rings, that are still good enough to give the compression readings you recorded.

BUT, I would not be seriously concerned until AFTER you put several 1000's of Kilometers on the car. I would recommend the same as Rusty suggested: Don't use thick or heavy oil, you want a lot of thinner oil splashing on the cylinder walls, getting up to the oil control rings, and delivering the MMO, Kroil, SeaFoam, ATF, or what ever additive you decide to use.

The additives do help, but are not miracle-workers.

From what I see in your photos, the cylinder walls are a mirror finish, which usually means very worn or glazed. The clean tops on the pistons means that oil or coolant has washed the carbon off.. But since the cylinder head seemed to have a good layer of carbon, I'm thinking not coolant, but oil coming up past the rings.

If my car, I'd use a 10w-30, or if you want to use your current 15w-40, it will be thinned with a good dose of additive, I like ATF, it is a 5wt oil with lots of detergent additives. I've had some good luck with one or two quarts of regular Mercon/Dexron ATF added to 4-6 quarts of oil in an engine.

It WILL smoke more, this is good, it cleaning the inside of the engine.

When you are done with the oil, make sure you change the oil filter. And I usually cut open the filter canister, remove and unfold the paper filter element, and inspect for pieces of metal, chunks of gasket, etc.. Besides, it's fun to make a big mess with the oily filter element !!

Once you have cleaned it as much as you can, just drive it some more, and see just how much oil it uses. It might not be all that bad.

One last try: find some synthetic oil, used for big trucks.. I like Synthetic Rotella T, 15w-40. Run it in the car, and see if it slows down the oil consumption.

IF none of the above reduces oil consumption, then a hone and ring job is needed, or maybe a cylinder boring and new oversize pistons will be needed, which will require new rod bearings as well. In essence a full rebuild by the time you are done.. So I'd see if you can live with the blowby and oil consumption [if any].

I once had a 120K mile VW diesel Rabbit, that's 200,000Km.. it burnt 1 quart every 1000 miles of normal 15w40 oil. I put in a 'big truck' straight 30wt FULL synthetic oil made by Mobil, it was called Delvac.. this was in 1979, so it's NOT the same Mobil Delvac as sold today. Maybe for truck fleets it is still available..

Anyway, the 30wt Synthetic Delvac reduced my oil consumption to 1qt/3000 miles.. so it paid for itself. I usually will try several different oils in a 'problem engine' before I give up and rebuild.. Sometimes an engine will really 'like' a certain oil. But it's only putting off the inevitable overhaul.

Best of luck, keep us informed..

GLong

[Rusty_OToole]

Do you get more oil smoke out the exhaust when accelerating or slowing down? A puff of blue smoke on starting usually means bad valve guides. Smoke on acceleration means bad rings. Smoke on slowing down, valve guides.

With the engine idling, if you take the oil cap off and hold your hand over the hole is there a lot of pressure blowing out? This indicates bad piston rings and blowby.