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Kitskaboodle

Any interest in a full time power window kit for the Reatta?

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I have full-time power window kits in both of my Fiero's and I really like them. I'm in and out of my car a lot (when I'm at a car show, when I'm working on it, etc) and I find it convenient NOT to have to turn the ignition and/or engine on every time i want to open, close or adjust the windows. :( It wouldn't take much to design a kit to do this. ( probably just a small wiring harness would do it)

Once a prototype is created & proven to work, it could be handed off to someone to make/sell copies.

Any interest??

Kit

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This is a feature on most newer luxury automobiles (usually power available for 10-30 minutes after ignition off but also available via remote anytime). *I* would think at least one aftermarket system already exists.

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You can do this with a paper clip. Just pull RAP relay 2 and jump pin 1 to pin 4.

Windows and sun roof will operate all the time.

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Mc_R.,

You need to put the paperclip in a packet with *how to*instructions. Put this on Ebay for say... $19.95.

Also say that, if you order now, you'll get a second packet absolutely free (just include payment for additional shipping and handling)

In no time at all, you'll be able to retire in Florida!

John F.

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Careful John, you are giving away my marketing secrets for a device I sell on eBay. It is advertised as 100% guaranteed to kill roaches. It consists of two blocks of wood. The well written instructions say you must lay the roach on one of the blocks of wood and then slam the other block of wood down on the roach. If you follow the instructions correctly the product is guaranteed to kill roaches every time or you get your money back (minus shipping and handling). The device sells for $4.95 + $17.97 shipping & handling.

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Mc_Reatta already lives in Florida. [Maybe he could consider retiring to Wi. Mn , Mi or some other weather challenging locale].

I have encouraged Mike numerous times over the years to market his ideas [i am a guinea pig for his ideas]. His stuff is top shelf and uses factory harness' and to date has not required alteration of factory wiring.

When he shared how to bypass the RAP relay, I thought the exact same thing. Open a relay and bypass the circuitry inside and sell it for $20.00 It would look "factory" and be "plug and play"

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Hmmm, I didn't know it would be so easy. The Fiero requires a 3 wire harness. Ok, I'm going to try what you said about pin. 1 & 4. RAP? That is vernacular for Right Access Panel?? And if so, how do I know which relay is #2?

Kit

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"Retained Accessory Power". Relays for it are behind the panel on the right (passenger) side of the console:

attachment.php?attachmentid=212357&d=1378250942

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You can do this with a paper clip. Just pull RAP relay 2 and jump pin 1 to pin 4.

Windows and sun roof will operate all the time.

im going to try this.theres no reason for the sunroof to be switched.

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While the modification may be unnecessary or cause an electrical/fire issue, for those whose daily driver can open one or all windows (and start the car) with a push of a button(s) while your 50-75 ft away is a nice luxury.

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This is a totally unnecessary modification and if done improperly could burn the car to the ground.

You're right, it's not absolutely necessary but I do find it very convenient. As I mentioned in the beginning I am in and out of my car a lot (while its parked) and I find it very annoying to have to have the turn the key in the ignition every time I want to adjust the windows. I have had full time power windows in both my Fiero's and I love this feature! In addition, if properly engineered they will cause no issues. I have been using these for the last 6-7 years with zero problems.

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I was just thinking...to be safe, would it be a good idea to add an inline fuse between pin 1 & 4 rather than just jump the relay pins directly with a wire? If do, what amperage fuse should I use?

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I was just thinking...to be safe, would it be a good idea to add an inline fuse between pin 1 & 4 rather than just jump the relay pins directly with a wire? If do, what amperage fuse should I use?

If you look at the schematic (cell 8A-120-0 in the FSM), the circuit already has a fuse in it. I am not sure what Steves concern is.

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wws944 said: "I am not sure what Steves (sic) concern is."

Ask any parts vendor and you will get the same answer. Because we sell the parts, we ultimatly have the responsibility to get the car repaired or the customer isn't happy. Any time a car is modified, jury rigged, tamperd with, or has non standard or substandard parts installed, it becomes very difficult to troubleshoot over the phone. Many well meaning posters forget that the average person reading the forum doesn't have the understanding, experience or tools to perform repairs and modifications. The same people that are recommending these ridiculous modifications are not the people that have to field the phone calls. I get calls all the time for wiring that was burned up by a "rebuilt" headlight switch or someone that is attempting to install brighter headlights.

I get calls all the time from Reatta owners that have messed up their cars because they followed the advice they saw on this forum. Often times they have no idea about the relationship between price and quality and because of the misinformation posted here they will choose price thinking "they are all the same". Not so.

The Reatta is actually a very well engineered and built car. An ummolested car is very easily maintained. Brakes, CRTs, Headlights, etc are no big deal whatsoever provided the car has not been visited by a shadetree cheapskate that is trying to improve the wheel.

Edited by steveskyhawk (see edit history)

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Based on your comments you are seeing clients using a higher draw headlight which is what is causing your clients to burn up their wiring at the switches. That I would believe rather then someone incorrectly rebuilding the switch.

The unfortunate thing about people "modifying" their cars is that the first guy does it right and the next guy takes the info and takes a short cut and another and another. And so it goes. I believe when you have an electrical engineer like Mc_Reatta [and others] that have the electrical knowledge make a part that doesn't change the harness' etc. that CAN be the way to go. However [even with my encouragement] they are reluctant to sell their products. It is unfortunate as in some cases they do have a better way. For instance the MP3 adapter, and the radiator fans always on wiring harness, etc. It can be done and should be done.

It is no different then your headlight bracket.

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Dave said: "It is no different then your headlight bracket"

First of all I dont sell a headlight bracket. I sell a headlight motor repair kit that unlike other available hardware, my kit fits exactly like the original equipment parts did.

Bad awitches AND high draw headlights cause the wiring to overheat. Would you rather someone burn up their car than admit that you are wrong?

And my parts are necessary. Functional headlights are required by law.

These cars have worked reliabily without modification for 25 years. Replacing the radiator will solve overheating problems faster than juryrigging the fans. If the owner messes up the juryrigging, the fans may not work at all and we know what happens then. Congratulations

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Steve, it takes a very elementary reading of the schematic on page 8A-120-0 to see that there is no danger of 'melting wires' IN THIS CASE. But I've only been messing with electronics for 40+ years. I won't be doing the mod to my car. However my reasons have nothing to do with electrical matters.

If you wish to discuss the poorly designed Reatta headlight issues, we can do that under a different thread. However they have been pretty well hashed out under many old threads.

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Just did mine.two inch piece of 14 gauge wire and two crimped on male 1/4 inch spade connectors.I may change it to 10 guage wire but I need 10 guage male connectors.thanks mc.

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The headlight issue is solved. No need to rehash that.

Where we diverge is on the level of experience that the "average" Reatta owner posesses. Lets put this in real terms by giving an example. Lets say an average 1990 Reatta owner has overloaded his headlight wiring and fried his switch. He believes he has followed the directions he has read on this forum and swears there is nothing wrong. He then buys a nice used 1990 light switch from YOU for $250 which is a reasonable price for that item. He then installs the new switch in his car and burns that one up too. What are you going to do if he demands that you take it back and return his money? If you sold it through eBay you are required to do just that. Ironically there are other owners with unmodified cars that may need that switch. Can you then resell the damaged one? Of course not. If you had sold it to people with undamaged cars you will never hear from them again unless they want to buy somthing unrelated.

I think the difference is that us vendors are required to see a repair completed with dependable results or our customers aren't happy. The guys that are trying to show how smart they are make suggestions that the average person can't perform, never have to answer the phone when things dont work out. In other words WE have to fix the problems OTHERS cause. If you dont have skin in the game then stay out of it. I dont sell electrical parts to people with modified cars if I'm aware that they have been trying out the forum fixes.

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There is an old joke about 'using very expensive parts to protect $0.50 fuses'. And the electrical system for the Reatta headlight bulbs seems to be one such example. It seems they used a 20 amp fuse in a circuit where it seems the switch could probably only reliably handle 15 amps or less. GM must have eventually figured it out, as evidenced by adding the extra headlight relay mid-1990 model year. (1991s also have the extra relay.)

In any event, the power window circuit is a different kettle of fish.

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... I think the difference is that us vendors are required to see a repair completed with dependable results or our customers aren't happy. The guys that are trying to show how smart they are make suggestions that the average person can't perform, never have to answer the phone when things dont work out. In other words WE have to fix the problems OTHERS cause. If you dont have skin in the game then stay out of it. I dont sell electrical parts to people with modified cars if I'm aware that they have been trying out the forum fixes.
If that were true there would be no need for this forum or websites like mine. All that Reatta owners would need to do is buy a part from a vendor and you guys would make sure the car is repaired correctly and all of us customers would be happy. In reality it just doesn't work that way.

These "forum fixes" are what keep a lot of Reattas on the road. That is why, with the help of other forum members, I turn those "forum fixes" into tutorials and post them on Reatta Owners Journal. Reatta owners need websites like this forum, ROJ, and other similar websites but participation in this forum is at an all time low. Who wants to hear someone complain and criticize other forum members all the time. Many forum members soon tire of hearing it and leave. The complaints and criticism only serves to discourage "the guys who are trying to show how smart they are" from trying to come up with new ways to keep our cars on the road longer. The criticism and negativity needs to stop.

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