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Tom_

'89 Brakes

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So I've had my '89 since April and I've had no trouble with it until two weeks ago when I'm driving through town and the red brake warning light comes on. The brakes work fine for three more lights, but when I get to the next one the pedal is reallhard to push down. I used two feet and the car will still stop just fine. Sounds like "no boost."

When I get back to campus I get on here and research. I do the brake test and the first step is check the voltage to the pump. I pop the hood and the pump is vibrating and sounds like it's running at 10% power. I check the voltage and it's got 11.90V. So I go back inside and start looking for a pump motor. They are $600+.

So my question is:

a) Where do you get your pump motors from at any price substantially less than a re-manufactured unit?

B) What other years/models have the same motor for a possible junkyard unit. (I know the salvage yard unit will not last as long but it's what I can afford.)

Looking at other threads Jim Finn may have one but his email seems to change a lot. Any help would be appreciated ya'll. Thanks for your time.

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check your brake relay first. http://reattaowner.com/roj/component/content/article/84-suspension-a-brakes/brakes-electrical/174-brake-abs-relay-location

... if your yellow abs light is not on, you can switch the 2 relays (all 3 are the same). if the red light goes out and the yellow light turns on - it's probably the relay. also clean all the electrical connections. i use "CRC Electronic Cleaner".

had a similar problem around a month ago - fixed with a new relay under $10.:)

many the parts you may need are available in "The Reatta Store". http://thereattastore.com/reatta-brake-parts/

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Sorry I should have said the yellow ABS light is always on. But I will go clean all the connectors. Would the relay be bad even with a good voltage reading at the motor?

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your "symptoms" don't seem to match the yellow ABS light being on AFAIK. my ABS light has been on for over a year, since i purchased her. i just don't have a working ABS. it's usually one or more of the wheel sensors or the connector/wiring.

check the brake tutorials on ROJ then use the "search forum" feature here or ROJ.

i'll let the "electronic experts" pick it up from here.:)

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You need to check other things first. You may have a blockage in the line from the reservoir to the pump, have a bad accumulator, be out of fluid etc.

Does pump ever turn off, or does it just continue to run?

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Pump runs but does not build pressure- could be a main valve stuck open. OTOH pressing the brake a couple of times and then the red light comes on is typically a bad accumulator but the red light should go out.

I agree the boost system can turn off the ABS (both yellow and red lights on) but the ABS being off (yellow light on) should not affect the boost. OTOH I would not drive any car far with either light on (but I have spares).

When you say it feels hard do you mean hard like with a lot of pressure you get some brakes or do you mean it feels like the pedal is pushing back at you and does not slow at all ? If the second, DO NOT DRIVE even an inch.

Edited by padgett (see edit history)

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The pedal isn't pushing back at me it just has no power assistance. Essentially it feels similar to having manual brakes with no booster.

The symptoms started at the end of August when, as I pulled into campus after a 6 hour drive, the red warning light came on. My brakes still had assist and everything was fine. Then, over the last month, when I crank it up the first time just the yellow light is on. Then somewhere down the road the red light will come on after a few stops (I've tried counting stops but the number varies too much for any sort of pattern). Then after a few more stops, sometimes one, sometimes a dozen, the pedal will feel very firm like I described above and I'll get the "ABS Low-Pressure Warning" on the screen. Again the number of stops varies greatly.

Quite recently however, the red and yellow lights are on when I start it and the pedal may or may not be firm from the beginning. It's basically just degenerating into not having boost at all from working fine a month ago.

FYI: The yellow light has been on since I bought it in April, frayed/cracked/possibly shorted wheel sensor wires are the cause. I fixed what I could see but there's always more I can't.

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Tom,

The syptom of hard pedal and no brakes is exactly what I just had happen to me. Vacuum booster failed. If I listened closely under the dash I could hear the hissing noise when I depressed the pedal. It also would not kick the brake pedal back up on startup if held down when starting. REPLACE THE BOOSTER.

The intermittent red light might also be a piston seal in the master cylinder leaking, uneven pressure between the front and rear circuits can set a red brake light.

I don't doubt that you may have some ABS issues but replace the master and booster first to get your brakes back, then address the ABS.

reattas don't have vacumn boosters.

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I realized that after posting and couldn't get it deleted quick enough. Sorry for the confusion, mine was not a Reatta. My 88 Olds has that type ABS without the booster but is not the one I just had to fix. Sorry, TJ

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On my 88 Olds I was fortunate to find one at the junk yard, just bolted it up and it worked perfectly, still is years later. I don't know if the units are interchangeable from Olds or other Buicks but may be worth looking into. They nearly all offer a free 30 day warranty if you happed to get a bad one.

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It's odd. The pump is running but it normally makes a buzzing noise like it's spinning fast but right now it sounds like a low purring and is vibrating at a much lower frequency. Would any clogs make it do that or is that just the motor? At any rate, what other cars could I pull a pump motor off that would fit this system?

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It's odd. The pump is running but it normally makes a buzzing noise like it's spinning fast but right now it sounds like a low purring and is vibrating at a much lower frequency. Would any clogs make it do that or is that just the motor? At any rate, what other cars could I pull a pump motor off that would fit this system?
It might sound that way if it's starving for fluid for some reason.

Compatibility Chart

[TABLE=class: compatibility]

<tbody>[TR]

[TH=class: colheadL]Make[/TH]

[TH]Model[/TH]

[TH]Year[/TH]

[TH]Drive Type[/TH]

[TH=class: colheadR]Notes[/TH]

[/TR]

[TR=class: fitment listRowEven]

[TD]Buick[/TD]

[TD]Electra[/TD]

[TD]1989[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]New Power Brake Booster

ANTI-LOCK DISC/DRUM BRK(JM4)~ - W/HI PRESS WARNING SW[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: fitment listRowOdd]

[TD]Buick[/TD]

[TD]Electra[/TD]

[TD]1990[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]New Power Brake Booster

ANTI-LOCK DISC/DRUM BRK(JM4)~ - W/HI PRESS WARNING SW[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: fitment listRowEven]

[TD]Buick[/TD]

[TD]LeSabre[/TD]

[TD]1989[/TD]

[TD]Front-Wheel Drive[/TD]

[TD]New Power Brake Booster

ANTI-LOCK DISC/DRUM BRK(JM4)~ - W/HI PRESS WARNING SW[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: fitment listRowOdd]

[TD]Buick[/TD]

[TD]LeSabre[/TD]

[TD]1990[/TD]

[TD]Front-Wheel Drive[/TD]

[TD]New Power Brake Booster

ANTI-LOCK DISC/DRUM BRK(JM4)~ - W/HI PRESS WARNING SW[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: fitment listRowEven]

[TD]Buick[/TD]

[TD]Reatta[/TD]

[TD]1989[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]New Power Brake Booster

w/PRESS WARNING SW - FRONT & ANTI-LOCK BRK(JL9)[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: fitment listRowOdd]

[TD]Buick[/TD]

[TD]Reatta[/TD]

[TD]1990[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]New Power Brake Booster

w/PRESS WARNING SW - FRONT & ANTI-LOCK BRK(JL9)[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: fitment listRowEven]

[TD]Buick[/TD]

[TD]Riviera[/TD]

[TD]1989[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]New Power Brake Booster

w/PRESS WARNING SW - FRONT & ANTI-LOCK BRK(JL9)[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: fitment listRowOdd]

[TD]Buick[/TD]

[TD]Riviera[/TD]

[TD]1990[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]New Power Brake Booster

w/PRESS WARNING SW - FRONT & ANTI-LOCK BRK(JL9)[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: fitment listRowEven]

[TD]Cadillac[/TD]

[TD]Commercial Chassis[/TD]

[TD]1989[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]New Power Brake Booster

ANTI-LOCK DISC/DRUM BRK(JM4)[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: fitment listRowOdd]

[TD]Cadillac[/TD]

[TD]Commercial Chassis[/TD]

[TD]1990[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]New Power Brake Booster

ANTI-LOCK DISC/DRUM BRK(JM4)[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: fitment listRowEven]

[TD]Cadillac[/TD]

[TD]DeVille[/TD]

[TD]1989[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]New Power Brake Booster

ANTI-LOCK DISC/DRUM BRK(JM4)[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: fitment listRowOdd]

[TD]Cadillac[/TD]

[TD]DeVille[/TD]

[TD]1990[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]New Power Brake Booster

ANTI-LOCK DISC/DRUM BRK(JM4)[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: fitment listRowEven]

[TD]Cadillac[/TD]

[TD]Eldorado[/TD]

[TD]1989[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]New Power Brake Booster

w/PRESS WARNING SW - FRONT & ANTI-LOCK BRK(JL9)[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: fitment listRowOdd]

[TD]Cadillac[/TD]

[TD]Eldorado[/TD]

[TD]1990[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]New Power Brake Booster

w/PRESS WARNING SW - FRONT & ANTI-LOCK BRK(JL9)[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: fitment listRowEven]

[TD]Cadillac[/TD]

[TD]Fleetwood[/TD]

[TD]1989[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]New Power Brake Booster

ANTI-LOCK DISC/DRUM BRK(JM4)[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: fitment listRowOdd]

[TD]Cadillac[/TD]

[TD]Fleetwood[/TD]

[TD]1990[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]New Power Brake Booster

ANTI-LOCK DISC/DRUM BRK(JM4)[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: fitment listRowEven]

[TD]Cadillac[/TD]

[TD]Seville[/TD]

[TD]1989[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]New Power Brake Booster

w/PRESS WARNING SW - FRONT & ANTI-LOCK BRK(JL9)[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: fitment listRowOdd]

[TD]Cadillac[/TD]

[TD]Seville[/TD]

[TD]1990[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]New Power Brake Booster

w/PRESS WARNING SW - FRONT & ANTI-LOCK BRK(JL9)[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: fitment listRowEven]

[TD]Oldsmobile[/TD]

[TD]98[/TD]

[TD]1989[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]New Power Brake Booster

ANTI-LOCK DISC/DRUM BRK(JM4)~ - W/HI PRESS WARNING SW[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: fitment listRowOdd]

[TD]Oldsmobile[/TD]

[TD]98[/TD]

[TD]1990[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]New Power Brake Booster

ANTI-LOCK DISC/DRUM BRK(JM4)~ - W/HI PRESS WARNING SW[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: fitment listRowEven]

[TD]Oldsmobile[/TD]

[TD]Delta 88[/TD]

[TD]1989[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]New Power Brake Booster

ANTI-LOCK DISC/DRUM BRK(JM4)~ - W/HI PRESS WARNING SW[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: fitment listRowOdd]

[TD]Oldsmobile[/TD]

[TD]Delta 88[/TD]

[TD]1990[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]New Power Brake Booster

ANTI-LOCK DISC/DRUM BRK(JM4)~ - W/HI PRESS WARNING SW[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: fitment listRowEven]

[TD]Oldsmobile[/TD]

[TD]Toronado[/TD]

[TD]1989[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]New Power Brake Booster

w/PRESS WARNING SW - FRONT & ANTI-LOCK BRK(JL9)[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: fitment listRowOdd]

[TD]Oldsmobile[/TD]

[TD]Toronado[/TD]

[TD]1990[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]New Power Brake Booster

w/PRESS WARNING SW - FRONT & ANTI-LOCK BRK(JL9)[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: fitment listRowEven]

[TD]Pontiac[/TD]

[TD]Bonneville[/TD]

[TD]1989[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]New Power Brake Booster

w/HI PRESS WARNING SW - ANTI-LOCK DISC/DRUM BRK(JM4)[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=colspan: 5] 1 to 25 of 26 Fitments

[/TD]

[/TR]

</tbody>[/TABLE]

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Pontiac STE also had it in the 86-90 timeframe. Also Lincoln 85-89. Was an option on the 90 Bonne but for a grand I passed.

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excellent. I'll hit the salvage yard on Wednesday and post results.

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Note that you may need a new accumulator and/or pressure switch. If either is bad, it could cause the pump motor to run 'forever' and eventually fail.

Also, in most of the cars listed above, the ABS was an option. So don't get discouraged if you find a few cars that don't have it. Eventually one will turn up. If you find a Toronado/Eldo/Seville, be sure to check the ABS sensors to see if they are worth pulling - especially the fronts. A few other cars also use the same rear sensors.

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You need to check other things first. You may have a blockage in the line from the reservoir to the pump, have a bad accumulator, be out of fluid etc.

Does pump ever turn off, or does it just continue to run?

Isn't there a strainer or filter of some sort in the bottom of the reservior where the outlet (feeding the pump) connects?

If so (and following Mc_R's thought's) it could be plugged and cause fluid starvation.

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crazytrain was able to hook me up with an accumulator/pump assembly that was for the right system. Put it on, flushed all the old fluid, cleaned out the reservoir, primed the motor, flushed the lines and it all works great! The diagnosis was a mixture of the filter in the reservoir being gummed up with what looked like mulch and a bad accumulator. The fluid level barely dropped while the motor would run and run. So with everything back in place and the pressure sensor confirmed for being good by allowing the system to build pressure and shut off, looks like it's back on the road. Next on the list is the dang rattling strut mounts. One of these days I'll run out of things that need fixing.

Tom_

P.S. I attached a few pics of the reservoir level after the motor had been running for awhile to show how little the level changed.

post-92889-143142251941_thumb.jpg

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