Guest Magoo Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 The General has a more colorful and complicated brand history than folks might realize. Here are just a few of the forgotten divisions. How many can you name? The Lost Marques of General Motors | Mac's Motor City Garage.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhb1999 Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 1929-31 Viking (Oldsmobile division), 1934 Lasalle (Cadillac) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lordairgtar Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Great posting. I have a love for Canadian GM cars such as the Beaumont and the Acadian. Does anyone know of the Little motors cars? They eventually were brought in to GM and became one of the models sold by Chevy with little change except the badges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Graham Clayton Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Sheridan, Samson, Scripps-Booth, to name 3 fron the late teens-early twenties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Layden B Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 (edited) General Cab, Maple Leaf Truck ( Canada), Yellow Coach, Pontiac killed of its predecesser Oakland Edited October 4, 2013 by Layden B (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LINC400 Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Saturn, Pontiac, Oldsmobile, LaSalle, Viking, Marquette, Oakland.I don't think I would consider anything bought by, and then absorbed into GM without any cars being built as GM's, a forgotten division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickelroadster Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Northway engines and Welch motor cars. Welches were really fine cars with hemi heads and single overhead cams that Gm should have never shut down! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave@Moon Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 It isn't even gone 3 years yet and in 48 hours no one remembered Saturn! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LINC400 Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 It isn't even gone 3 years yet and in 48 hours no one remembered Saturn!????Look up. First thing I listed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llskis Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 This was the biggest flaw in GM throughout its history. Way too many Divisions and Duplications. Is it any wonder that theyhad to file bankruptcy? Even today they have too many Divisions: Why have two truck Divisions? Time for GMC to hit theAutomotive graveyard as they are nothing more than a "Copycat" of Chevrolet. Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Magoo Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 This was the biggest flaw in GM throughout its history. Way too many Divisions and Duplications. Is it any wonder that theyhad to file bankruptcy? Even today they have too many Divisions: Why have two truck Divisions? Time for GMC to hit theAutomotive graveyard as they are nothing more than a "Copycat" of Chevrolet. LarryI don't think there is any question but that GM eventually had too many brands. The overhead is huge. Toyota could sell roughly the same number of cars in America with three brands as GM was selling in eight. In the 2009 reorganization, half the brands had to go away. Many enthusiasts still don't appreciate that. That said, the multiplicity of brands made plenty of sense in the company's early decades. Sloan was very clever about this -- GM had been built by purchasing and combining a huge tangle of unrelated companies. By 1) preserving brands where possible and 2) crafting the famed GM decentralized corporate structure, all these various companies and their executives could continue and flourish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 Sloan's theory was to cover the market by offering "a car for every purse and purpose". Up to the early 50s there were definite differences between model lines. You could compare a Chev to a Buick or Cadillac and easily see why the heavy models cost more money.By the lat 50s these lines were blurred. You could actually buy a Chev or Pontiac with a bigger V8 than Cadillac, and all the Cadillac features as optional equipment. There was practically no difference in size, interior room, or performance compared to 20 or 30 years earlier.Things became even more confused in the 60s and later when all divisions wanted to compete in all size classes. Buick Special and Olds F85 selling against Chevelle, and so on.This sort of thing reached an all time low with the F car based Cadillac Cimarron in the 80s.Today we expect all makes to compete in all size and price classes. More or less as Mercedes has done from the start.Maybe it is time to rationalize all the car lines and start over. It seems today that individual models mean more than makes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Magoo Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 Sloan's theory was to cover the market by offering "a car for every purse and purpose". Up to the early 50s there were definite differences between model lines. You could compare a Chev to a Buick or Cadillac and easily see why the heavy models cost more money.Indeed. The interesting thing about the "every purse and purpose" strategy was the car lines were not assembled for that purpose. They were simply a mishmash of car makers that Durant had acquired and Sloan inherited. He had to organize this mess somehow, and even then the brands overlapped their price and class segments. It took some squinting to visualize it all and craft it into a vertical brand heirarchy. Also, the individual companies -- for example Buick, Cadillac, Olds, Chevrolet, and also Hyatt, where Sloan came from -- entered GM with strong, autonomous managers. Sloan needed to devise an organization that would accommodate all these strong individuals and cultures but under a powerful central authority. Business schools still study how Sloan did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph P. Indusi Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 Rusty and Magoo have it right. Sloan was a genius at organization and managing prima donnas. He built GM into the greast corporate entity that ever existed.I researched the GM car line prices for the 1940's and 1950's and there was very little overlap as you moved from Chevrolet up to Cadillac. The price of a top line Chevy was just about the starting price of the low end Pontiac and so on. There was some overlap in regard to Buick because they had broad market coverage starting with the Special on up to the Roadmaster and the Limited in the 1940's.Joe, BCA 33493 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llskis Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 How ironic; now Chevrolet got the highest price cars of all GM--ZR1 $125K--and the new Camaro Z28 not far behind. Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 This sort of thing reached an all time low with the F car based Cadillac Cimarron in the 80s.The GM "F" cars were / are the Chevrolet Camaro and Pontiac Firebird. The Cimarron was a "J" car along with the Chevrolet Cavalier, Buick Skyhawk, and Pontiac J2000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cars of chaos Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 If anyone ever knows of someone or has a Viking for sale (1929-1931) please let me know I'd be very interested in that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John348 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 This was the biggest flaw in GM throughout its history. Way too many Divisions and Duplications. Is it any wonder that theyhad to file bankruptcy? Even today they have too many Divisions: Why have two truck Divisions? Time for GMC to hit theAutomotive graveyard as they are nothing more than a "Copycat" of Chevrolet. Larry maybe Chevrolet should stop selling trucks, maybe Chevrolet is a copy of the GMC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kings32 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Pontiac was not the for runner of Oakland they were built at the same time ,Oakland was bought about 1909 Pontiac was started about 1926 by GM .The Oakland last year was 1931 . 1930-31 was a V8 . Pontiac used the last of those V8 in early 32. Great cars I have a 1930 Oakland sedan. Kings32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 So far, no one mentioned Cartercar http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?46653-Orphan-of-the-Day-12-04-1910-Cartercar&highlight=cartercar Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Two more casualties are Hummer and Saab, and it appears Holden may be next.Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 We actually had a 1923 Cartercar show up at our All-GM show last summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John348 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Geo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 We actually had a 1923 Cartercar show up at our All-GM show last summer.[ATTACH=CONFIG]297617[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]297618[/ATTACH]That has to be a typo as the CarterCar pictured is a 1913-14. Here is my friend's 1914.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 That has to be a typo as the CarterCar pictured is a 1913-14. Here is my friend's 1914....Correct, sorry about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John348 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Didn't Durant start GM with Dort Automobiles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rp1967 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Cartercar driveline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe in Canada Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) You people can not forget Vega, Monza Frigidaire or General Motors Diesel near London Ont. for train Locomotive's they spun off. Edited March 3, 2015 by Joe in Canada (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John348 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 You people can not forget Vega, Monza Frigidaire or General Motors Diesel near London Ont. for train Locomotive's they spun off.The Vega and Monza were not Division's just model lines, I own one Vega and two Monza's, they were just another Chevrolet model that was offered for sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 You people can not forget Vega, Monza Frigidaire or General Motors Diesel near London Ont. for train Locomotive's they spun off.Yep, and Terex and the Bus & Coach Division.Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest prs519 Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Not exactly models, but spin-off companies might include United Motors Service, Delco, and Delco Remy. These were divisions dedicated to parts supply, as I recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldcarfudd Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Rainier. Both Welch and Welch-Detroit. Also, there were two Marquettes, both GM. One was the Buick companion car in 1930, and the other was related to Buick in 1912. No Marquettes were built in between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Rapid (trucks). A great read for those interested in this subject; Billy, Alfred and General Motors (William Pelfrey) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Dobbin Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Two things: #1 Don't'forget the Corvair. #2 The Saturn Sky should have become a Buick Sky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 The Saturn Sky should have become a Buick Sky.That roadster body, on the Kappa platform was also marketed in Europe as an Opel GT.I have always insisted GM could have saved tons of $$$ by converting all the Saturn dealers into 'GM Import' dealers for Opel and Holden instead of paying them out. It would have made sense since some of the Saturns were already rebadged Opels, and the Pontiac G8 and GTO was essentially a Holden, and by doing so, it would have been a continuation of their respective lines. That way, the current owners of Saturn Astras, Sky's, Pontiac Solstice's, G8's, etc., would not feel like alienated orphans at Chevrolet dealerships.Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R W Burgess Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I have always insisted GM could have saved tons of $$$ by converting all the Saturn dealers into 'GM Import' dealers for Opel and Holden instead of paying them out........... That way, the current owners of Saturn Astras, Sky's, Pontiac Solstice's, G8's, etc., would not feel like alienated orphans at Chevrolet dealerships.CraigI agree. I wanted a G-8 badly in the last days of Pontiac, but the dealer thought he knew better than me, so he lost a sale. I'll probably never buy a new GM car ever again, after beginning my purchasing of their new cars in 1968. Sad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Skyking Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 #2 The Saturn Sky should have become a Buick Sky.Do you think it would have made any difference? I don't, and as much as I'd love to own one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John348 Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Two things: #1 Don't'forget the Corvair. #2 The Saturn Sky should have become a Buick Sky.The Corvair was not a division it was just a model sold by Chevrolet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Oh..Where have all the Euclids gone??? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euclid_TrucksDandy Dave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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