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shadetree77

Stove Pipe Warning!

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If you've read through this thread then you know that when I started it I did not know that the manifold was supposed to have a second, separate tube in it. So yes, the part failure was due to my own mistake and not the "vendor of old Buick parts". I considered going back to the beginning and editing this thread to express that but I thought that anyone that came upon this would read through the whole thing and come to the correct conclusion as I did.

Now, that being said I do FULLY believe that a reputation has to be earned somehow. From what I've seen and heard the MAJORITY of folks have had a lot of the same experiences that I have had so I won't apologize for my attitude towards them. I also believe that the choke stove "kit" should have come with ALL of the parts needed to replace it. Right or wrong, strictly my opinion. I have gone back and added a message in red on the initial post to future viewers of this thread. I have also removed any remarks that may have been considered even slightly malicious.

Edited by shadetree77 (see edit history)

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I also believe that the choke stove "kit" should have come with ALL of the parts needed to replace it.

When I order a complete brake line kit I do not expect the kit to include the car frame although the brake lines pass through it.

Do you really believe that a kit from California would include the center piece of the manifold, that the sleeve is integrated with???

From what I've seen and heard the MAJORITY of folks have had a lot of the same experiences that I have had so I won't apologize for my attitude towards them.

So your opinion of the vendor is totally biased, prejudice and based on hearsay??? And that gives you the right to bad-mouth them???

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That's what I thought as well

Funny. I thought Robert was referring to the right coast, not left.

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Is it so wrong to believe a complete kit should come with all of the parts needed for the job? It's a small piece of pipe described as the "lower choke pipe" not "a piece of the manifold". The kit only came with the upper choke pipe. Don't you think it should either come with both or be listed as ONLY containing the upper? A frame? Really? Come on now. That's just being ridiculous. The comparison you are trying to make is way out in left field and argumentative.

Based on your comments I don't think you know who I'm talking about. And you must have missed the part where I said "experiences I have had". Many personal experiences. So yes, that does give me the right. Even though I don't believe that I did "bad mouth" them and I never named anyone. If I did say anything that might even be considered "bad mouthing" I went back and deleted it.

I freely admitted my mistake and edited the thread. What more do you want? To argue with someone on the internet? I advise you to visit another popular automotive forum for that. There are plenty of hot rodders over there that will argue with you. I'm not taking any of this personally Erik but you do seem to be coming at me aggressively for some reason. I'm sorry if I have offended you in some way and hope that we can still help each other in the future. That is what this forum is for is it not? The friendly sharing of information? That's all I have to say about this. I won't comment further.

I would ask that this thread please remain open to provide future information for people that might run into the same problem and make the same mistake that I did. If any moderator needs me to edit anything further and/or delete a few of the last posts (including this one) please let me know. I have no problem doing such.

Edited by shadetree77 (see edit history)

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Maybe I did come at you a little strong, but then I am tired of everyone (specially in my country) always blaming someone else for own faults. But enough said on this.

Do not use stainless or copper for the sleeve. The manifold is cast iron so the sleeve should be plain steel. Else you will create a galvanic battery which with the acidic gasses will corrode the joins. So what if the sleeve only lasts another 35 years. The stove pipe i aluminium is also correct as aluminium does not retain heat well and will react faster to temperature fluctuations.

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The cast iron of the early '50s contaned just about everything BUT iron. During the years sulpher has built up, which is also why it is virtually impossible to weld or repair. A 60 year old manifold contains currently mud, sulpher and hope. Don't think to much about it :-) Stainless steel contain a certain amount of chrome and nickel changing its galvanic charge. And what you really don't want is the manifold corroding around the sleeve edge letting the sleeve drop out or welds loosen

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I tried to put the piece of 3/8" tubing in the manifold today. It would not fit. When I began to tap with the hammer the tubing split every time I tried it. I tried the next size of tubing down (5/16") but it is too loose. I was able to flare the top part of the 5/16" tubing enough to seal it but I cannot do the same to the bottom. I don't have enough space to swing the hammer hard enough. I can't find a tubing that is a size between 3/8" and 5/16". What should I do now?

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Just a thought:

Flared one end?

Insert that end from the bottom,

and then expand the potentially shortened end now sticking out from the top?

Use an extremely high temperature Exhaust Manifold Sealer on both ends

Maybe that will work?

Good luck

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Robert, Just remember that whatever you use, the upper tube must fit in it after you are done. You may have to get an original lower tube. ???

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Considering that a lot of these manifolds seem to crack, I would not strike anywhere close to it no matter what. Marty has the right idea about flaring the end first, but I would not make a V flare. I would insert the tube for the lower stove pipe in the flaring tool at the maximum length you could to get the die onto the tool. Then use the flaring tool to essentially push the pipe as if you were going to flare it. In theory this should bunch up the pipe in the area next to the flaring tool, but leave a piece for you to connect the upper choke stove pipe to.

Use the smaller diameter tube and install your flare from the top. Then when you put the aluminum tube on top it will keep the lower choke stove in place. The bottom I would try to seal by inserting a thin screwdriver up from the bottom and then rotating it to expand the pipe below the manifold. Don't forget to cut your angle on the bottom.

Chances are that in a short while exhaust carbon gases and rust will seal the lower choke stove to the manifold.

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Not to be picky, but flaring could work, my thought was to EXPAND, rather than to FLARE... kind of like the way you expand a section of tailpipe to fit over another O.D. of the same diameter

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All good solutions so far!

Assuming that the original tube was 3/8" and the manifold has rust, crud and remnants of the old tube still in the holes. Measure the actual diameter of the 3/8" tube you have on hand, then pick a drill bit 0.005" smaller to drill the holes so you have an interference fit.

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Thanks for all of the suggestions guys. All great solutions. I think I ended up using a bit of advice from each post! :)I'll try to explain what I did.

I cut a piece of 5/16" tubing to the correct length. I then flared it (or expanded it, not sure which term would be correct here) by clamping the tubing into the hold down device used in a tube flaring kit, putting a tapered punch in the end, and hammering it into the tube. This flared/expanded the end of the tubing. I then put the pipe down through the manifold from the top. I should have put it through from the bottom as this would have made it a lot easier for me in the end. Anyway, I then tapped the top part with a hammer and large punch to seat the flare into the manifold. I attempted to do the same to the bottom part while my Dad pushed down on the top to keep it from unseating but that just did not work. It kept popping loose. So in the end, I ran a bead of fire place cement around the bottom part of the pipe to seal it.

This did seal everything up just fine. Will it last? I'm not sure. I may end up working on it again. Next time I'm going to either try putting it through from the bottom so I can better see what I'm doing with the fireplace cement OR try Willie's suggestion. By the way Willie, I did thouroughly check the hole in the manifold and I did not see any remnants of old pipe or crust. I also cleaned up the piece of 3/8" pipe so it was slick and smooth. I greased it too. I even tried putting it in the freezer for an hour so the metal would contract hoping that would give me the little extra room I needed. No dice. Hopefully, the solution I used will last. Thanks again for all of the help guys.

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You can stop into an air conditioning supply house and pick up a swedging tool. We use them to minimize joints in refrigeration systems. Then use a 1/4" drive socket to seat the new piece in place.

Since the job is done pick up the tool and you will never need it.

On the choke stove and tube parts. No one was supposed to keep the car so long that those internal parts would fail. It reminds me of the time we were at the Rolls plant discussing the sequence of re-assembly of a 1935 20/25 brake servo. Charles stopped us in mid-sentence and asked "Gentlemen, you do not have the means to purchase a newer model?"

Bernie

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Measure carefully, Robert. Just fixed the very same problem on my daughters '65 Rambler and the tube appeared to be 3/8ths o.d. but was actually 23/64th! After watching ebay for months finally snagged a nos piece for $5 (what a happy day that was). Once you have correct measurements you may be able to pick up something that will fit but not be listed as a Buick part. Search on ebay for choke heat tube to see some pictures.

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As a follow up I feel it necessary to report that the vendor did respond to my email and offered to send me a replacement kit.

Thanks for the info. Gene. I think that may be the case here as well. Must be a strange diameter. I search EBAY nightly for parts and have for over 2 years now. I don't think I've EVER seen a replacement tube for my car. I'll keep an eye out though as I would like to put a NOS piece back in there at some point.

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Hi guys I replaced a 2 barrel with the 322 4 barrel carter and cannot find where this stove pipe comes from out of the manifold...As the 2 barrel was never connected and the 4 barrel I would love to connect otherwise I am having trouble starting the car. I have looked at all the close up pics but cannot find a hole in my manifold for it to go, can anyone help me??? maybe a pic with enough engine in the shot to locate it for me, or a description of location would be great?? Thanks in advance

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Robert - with the new piece of pipe in the manifold, is the tube to the choke a loose fit? If so, I may try drilling/reaming the manifold so a 3/8" tube will fit and just stake it a little. I believe the tube in the manifold on my car has a leak - as far as I can tell the tube from the choke to the manifold does not go very far into the manifold, so the piece of tube staked or otherwise stuck in the manifold has a hole where I can't see it - allowing exhaust to get up to the choke. (Not that my car's run in the past 19 years, but there was a lot of soot in the choke when I cleaned up the carb...) The tube from manifold to choke on my car is not aluminum.

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Eric, I got the top part to fit tightly by expanding the tube and gently hammering it in a little. The bottom part was a loose fit and I had to seal it with fireplace cement. Probably a temporary solution. Making a 3/8" tube fit in there would be ideal. I'm not sure it could be done without removing the manifold though. There are technically two holes, one on top and one on bottom. It isn't one, long hole. So you would have to drill out the top one, then flip the manifold over and drill out the bottom one. Hard to do with the manifold in place. Taking it off opens up a whole new can of worms. My original choke tube was not aluminum either. But the replacements ARE. It seems to do fine if it doesn't make contact with the hot manifold. If it does, you can be assured that it will promptly melt. Use steel tubing to replace the manifold tube. Good luck and let me know how it goes.

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I have drilled bunches of holes through hollow things (tubes) from one side only. That way the 2 hole segments you know are lined up - they were drilled with one continuous drill bit. What I was thinking for this case is find the drill size that gives a snug fit for a 3/8" tube, and drill through the manifold with that. On the segment of 3/8" tube, expand it a little on one end. Install through the manifold from the bottom so the bottom end is anchored by the expanded portion, and with it pushed out the top, stake that end so it won't drop out. Because the drilled hole and tube diameter is intended to be extremely close (maybe even hole slightly undersize - put tube in freezer and hit manifold with heat gun before installing), there won't be leakage to worry about.

What I'm trying to figure out is the choke tube. On my car as it is now, the choke tube only goes a little way into the manifold tube. Maybe 1/2", if that. It's a snug fit, so the manifold tube acts as an anchor for the bottom end of the choke tube (well, maybe the rust between the parts is the anchor). If I go with a larger diameter tube through the manifold, the choke tube will be rattling around unless I add a sleeve or something. Hmm. Another way would be to use a thicker wall 3/8" tube and counterbore it to be snug on the choke tube OD. No spacer needed.

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Inside of RH (passenger side) manifold just above outlet to exhaust pipe.

You can't see this from above the car. It's on the engine side of the manifold. You may be able to see it holding a mirror against the firewall and looking at the inside edge of the passengers exhaust manifold.

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