A400 cowl

[Dave Mellor NJ]

I recently went on a 4300 mile trip to the Badlands and Black Hills of South Dakota. I saw some wonderful sights that everybody should see in their lifetime, Mt Rushmore, Custer State Park,Mt. Crazy Horse, Devil's Tower, Sturgis, Pioneer Museum and others. While visiting a friend in Iowa I picked up a local paper and was surprised to see an ad for Model A parts in a listing for an estate sale.Long story short. I now own an A400 cowl.

[Dave Mellor NJ]

Few more pics

[trimacar]

Wow, makes one wonder where the rest of it is, it appears to be in good condition. I know a lot of things are available for a Model A, are the rest of the pieces out there at all??

[Dave Henderson]

Some of "the rest of the pieces" can be found for the 400A; doors are the same as Victoria's, fenders no problem, as well as mechanical parts. From there on the going gets tough. The 400A Convertible Sedan was a late '31 offering, and total production was only 4,864. I would attempt to backtrack through previous owners to get its history if at all possible. The 400A is a highly coveted model A body style.

However, I am thinking that it should not be ruled out that this is instead a cowl from a slant windshield '31 Cabriolet, model 68C, unless there is some other info that hasn't been brought out. In either case the windshield frame should be chrome plated, perhaps it was and is just scuzzy, or maybe it's from another of the slant windshield bodies that interchanges.

[1937hd45]

Cabriolet doors an old sedan body and you have the start of a nice Town Car. Bob

[Dave Mellor NJ]

Although it is very similar to a 68C(Slant Windshield Cabriolet), this is definitely an A400 (The proper body designation is 400A but most people know it as A400). you can see where the side rails were hacked off from the top posts. The top of the 68C posts would have had just a blank plate. The steering column bracket is also longer on the A400 and a few othersbut not the 68C.

The fellow who had this is gone along with the story of where any other parts might be,we'll never know.

The windshield is chrome and it seems shorter than a sw 4dr or a Vicky. I don't know about the 68C. It is in amazing shape. It would be a prize cowl to find even if it was ordinary. the pinstriping can even be seen. I don't know if the body could be recreated but I heard from one guy from the Fordbarn who has the rest of the body and needs it. It's always nice to put a car back together.

[Dave Mellor NJ]

Cabriolet doors an old sedan body and you have the start of a nice Town Car. Bob

They didn't have any town cars after a handful of carryovers in early 30 and certainly no slant winshields except for the few towncar deliveries which are different

[Dave Mellor NJ]

Note the chrome windshield. I can't figure out the vertical strip next to the indent. I think when it was separated from its body it must have been used as a farm wagon and the strip might have something to do with that.

[Dave Henderson]

Dave, good observation that the side rails had been hacked off, I overlooked that.

With intuition, and some catalog surfing, I believe the painted slant windshield frames for all s/w closed cars were the same, and the chromed 400A and the 68C's were the same as each other.

I'll go one further, but need to have measurements to confirm, and that is that all the slant windshield frames were the same except some were plated. I'll check this with a friend who has 2 Victorias and an A400 and get back. (Yeah, I'm ready to eat crow if I'm off on all this) Dave H.

[Dave Henderson]

By reviewing the "Ford Body Parts List" for the "A" and "AA", dated April 1, 1932, and consulting with a friend who owns both Victorias and an A400, i found that:

A68410E Frame (windshield) assy. is for the 68C Cabriolet and the 400A Conv. Sedan

A45410E Frame (windshield) assy. is for the 160 A,B,&C S/W sedans and the 190A Victoria.

The dimensions of all the above frames are the same. An unplated frame can be converted to one for the 68C or 400A by; fabricating a bracket for the wiper motor, hole drilling, and plating.

[Dave Mellor NJ]

As Dave H noted, all the slant windshield models needed a shorter windshield so they adapted the frame to fit the DeLuxe Roadster/Phaeton windshield glass which was approx. 1-1/4" shorter than that from the standard roadster/phaeton, which was the same as all straight windshield As. I didn't know it before but the SW sedans and Vickies have more room so the wiper comes out of the header as in this sedan

[Dave Mellor NJ]

On the A400 and the SW Cabriolet (the chromed frame cars) they don't have the header so they had to come through the frame The wiper motor actually rides the windshield when it swings out. There is a notch under the header strip above the windshield.

[Rusty_OToole]

You have the makings of a replica of the Gordon Buehrig Model A cabriolet.

http://forums.aaca.org/f190/interesting-model-project-239293.html

The story goes he was designing bodies for Duesenbergs and Cords at the Auburn - Cord - Duesenberg company and wanted a custom built car of his own. But he could not afford a Duesenberg or even an Auburn. So he bought a new Model A and had the body built in the Duesenberg shops. With permission of his employer of course.

He said he bought the more expensive 400A because he wanted the slanted windshield post, even though they threw away the rest of the body.

Basically they moved the cowl back 4" on the frame and built a new hood and body. The mechanics in the body shop thought he was "nuts" to tear up a brand new Ford. But he had a beautiful car which he drove for some 10 years and 100,000 miles.

Model A Ford Garage ~ Gordon Buehrig's Custom Model A Cabriolet

Edited September 1, 2013 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[Dave Mellor NJ]

There are a lot of possibilities for somebody with this cowl but I don't think it would lend well to a Buehrig A recreation because he started with a 68B, a straight windshield cabriolet. I remember this story and I appreciate you bringing it back, Rusty, but If I were to keep it I would try to get it back to being a 400 a again or maybe a 68C

[Dave Mellor NJ]

Here's Gordon's modified cabriolet. Note the widened door among other changes

[Dave Henderson]

If you're going the scratch-built route using the 400A cowl why not go big, use it to create a Town Car Delivery!

[Rusty_OToole]

I thought he bought the more expensive cabriolet to get the slanted windshield?

[Dave Mellor NJ]

Even the 2 recreations were done with straight windshields, I think. That Town car delivery would be super hard to build, The body is smaller and much different than a sedan delivery It is made out of aluminum. The cowl header is different too. It has snaps for the top, not posts.

[TG57Roadmaster]

I'd lay odds that the car below is a Weymann-bodied A, and that it's an English build referred to as, "Sporting," or, "Sportsman's" coupes .

It's vastly different than the Cabrio/Vicky shown in the Ford Garage link above attributed to Buehrig.

TG

[Dave Henderson]

Dave, i was aware of a straight windshield one commissioned by T. K. but not an other. In my opinion a recreation identical to the original Town Car Delivery using your slant windshield cowl would make sense. Yes, the aluminum body would require skills that aren't all that plentiful in the USA, but are more available in Italy for instance. Moreover, I think a recreated Town Car Delivery would be so much more valuable than a 400A that from an economic standpoint it would make a lot more sense.

[Dave Mellor NJ]

I'd lay odds that the car below is a Weymann-bodied A, and that it's an English build referred to as, "Sporting," or, "Sportsman's" coupes .

It's vastly different than the Cabrio/Vicky shown in the Ford Garage link above attributed to Buehrig.

TG

You got me on that one,TG. I picked up that pic on one of the sites ID'ing this as gordon's. In this link you'll find the one by Gordy,also a front shot which I hadn't seen and one of the recreations

Good Year Disc Wheels for Gordon Buehrig Victoria | Resto Rods To Go